Has anyone else noticed the quality of U.F.O. shows has gone up?

a reply to: neoholographic

Maybe you should try reading links before you post them.

same could be said about you reading the post you are replying too and giving a simple yes or no answer instead of repeating this

Saying it's birds is asinine.

for what is it now, the 3rd time.

TTSA and all the other charlatans in Ufology are proud to have devoted followers such as yourself.

Just swallow and never actually think or discuss, just swallow and parrot whatever new narrative is provided.

originally posted by: InhaleExhale
a reply to: neoholographic

Maybe you should try reading links before you post them.

same could be said about you reading the post you are replying too and giving a simple yes or no answer instead of repeating this

Saying it's birds is asinine.

for what is it now, the 3rd time.

TTSA and all the other charlatans in Ufology are proud to have devoted followers such as yourself.

Just swallow and never actually think or discuss, just swallow and parrot whatever new narrative is provided.

It's not a simple yes or no response.

First show me a shred of evidence that it's birds. None of the Pilots mentioned birds.

Why should I accept some pseudoskeptics premise without a shred of evidence to support their assertion?

a reply to: neoholographic

So what's the reason you can't answer yes or no to a simple question? Don't you understand it?

Also, do you understand what the first word in "likely just birds" means? And who said there weren't similar targets on radar 5,10 or 15 minutes later?

And if I quote a transcript from the source that provided the video in question, does it mean I endorse the claims they have made about it? Have my messages above somehow indicated so?

So once again:

Do you believe that "the fleet" were much smaller objects than the one on FLIR, as Graves has said?

Should we start counting how many times you have tried to evade that question? I'm pretty sure others reading this thread can also draw some conclusions from your refusals to answer that.

a reply to: neoholographic

It's not a simple yes or no response.

You have to be kidding,

The poster Nickless asked

"Do you believe that "the fleet" were much smaller objects than the one on FLIR, as Graves has said?"

That certainly looks like a yes or no question.

First show me a shred of evidence that it's birds.

Why?

None of the Pilots mentioned birds.

Do they have too?

Why should I accept some pseudoskeptics premise without a shred of evidence to support their assertion?

It was suggested that it could likely be birds and a logical reason was also given why the poster made such a suggestion.

Your inability to discuss or answer a simple yes or no questions speaks volumes.

a reply to: Nickless

You keep asking.

Do you believe that "the fleet" were much smaller objects than the one on FLIR, as Graves has said?  

I've already said that I accept the words of the Pilots over pseudoskeptics.

The only terrestrial thing they mentioned was drones. They said nothing about birds.

Again, I've already stipulated that I accept whatever the Pilots said over pseudoskeptics speculation.

There's no evidence of birds.

There's evidence from the source you quoted though. The one you didn't read.

You can post everything the Pilots said with the assumption that I agree with it.

Show me how many times they mentioned birds.

originally posted by: neoholographic
I've already said that I accept the words of the Pilots over pseudoskeptics.

The only terrestrial thing they mentioned was drones. They said nothing about birds.

Again, I've already stipulated that I accept whatever the Pilots said over pseudoskeptics speculation.

So it was a drone then? That's what the pilot said. They didn't mention anything extraterrestrial either.

And since you now accept that those other targets were much smaller, I hope you realize there's no point for you trying to argue about "invisible planes" anymore, or that those small targets would have been anything similar.

originally posted by: neoholographic
You can post everything the Pilots said with the assumption that I agree with it.

That's hilarious.

But on that note, who were those pilots? How much flight experience did they have? Or experience with the ATFLIR? Or image analysis? And how were they trained to identify various ATFLIR targets? And what sort of methods do they use for calculating target trajectories on the fly in their head, as even math professors would need some time and preferably a calculator to do that?

a reply to: Nickless

First, I will keep talking about invisible jets. You're not the only pseudoskeptic with a theory. I was responding to the other pseudoskeptic who has vanished after I debunked his video.

You keep talking about Graves said this and Graves said that, let's look at what Graves said:

“These things would be out there all day,” said Lt. Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who has been with the Navy for 10 years, and who reported his sightings to the Pentagon and Congress. “Keeping an aircraft in the air requires a significant amount of energy. With the speeds we observed, 12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”

“It turned from a potentially classified drone program to a safety issue,” Lieutenant Graves said. “It was going to be a matter of time before someone had a midair” collision. What was strange, the pilots said, was that the video showed objects accelerating to hypersonic speed, making sudden stops and instantaneous turns — something beyond the physical limits of a human crew.

“Speed doesn’t kill you,” Lieutenant Graves said. “Stopping does. Or acceleration.” Asked what they thought the objects were, the pilots refused to speculate. “We have helicopters that can hover,” Lieutenant Graves said. “We have aircraft that can fly at 30,000 feet and right at the surface.” But “combine all that in one vehicle of some type with no jet engine, no exhaust plume.”

www.nytimes.com...

Birds??

That's just idiotic. Read what Graves and all of these Pilots are saying. It sounds nothing like Birds. To say that it's Birds is just a pseudoskeptics fantasy.

Do you think all of these Pilots are idiots and they couldn't tell that what they were seeing were not Birds but some sort of craft or drone program that moved in ways that were unfamiliar to experienced Pilots? You know how many times Pilots see Birds yet all of these Pilots are seeing things that move in unfamiliar ways. Why should I believe a pseudoskeptics talking about Birds?

originally posted by: neoholographic
First, I will keep talking about invisible jets.

That just makes you more like a parrot, and less like a man.

originally posted by: neoholographic
You keep talking about Graves said this and Graves said that, let's look at what Graves said:

Hilarious again. I only kept repeating the same question about Graves since you failed to answer it multiple times.

If you think I trust his words without evidence any more than the other pilots, you are badly mistaken. But let me guess, you turned the conversation to him, because, once again, you were unable to answer my questions about those other pilots, and incapable of admitting you don't even know their names, let alone skills, even though you blindly trust them?

You also failed to answer if that Gimbal FLIR target was a drone, since a pilot you so trust believed so? Do I need to repeat this question as many times as the previous ones before I get an answer?

a reply to: Nickless

Here's more from Graves. Of course you don't want to talk about him now.

One ten-year veteran, Lieutenant Ryan Graves, claimed that he saw UFOs almost daily, and that the objects could reach hypersonic speeds and heights of up to 30,000 feet without any visible engine or plumes of infrared exhaust. Graves, who reported his experience to the Pentagon and Congress, said, “These things would be out there all day,” and that, “with the speeds we observed, 12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”

What fascinated Lieutenant Graves about his interactions with the objects was their ability to stop rapidly, turn instantly, and immediately accelerate to hypersonic speed — maneuvers that would burden human pilots with unbearable G-forces. “Speed doesn’t kill you,” Graves said. “Stopping does. Or acceleration.”

nymag.com...

What you don't want to talk about is your asinine comment that they saw birds.

I tell you what, I'll answer your question when you answer mine.

Where is there a shred of evidence that these Pilots saw Birds? Are we to believe they're idiots and just blindly accept the word of a blind, bias pseudoskeptic?

originally posted by: neoholographic
I tell you what, I'll answer your question when you answer mine.

Where is there a shred of evidence that these Pilots saw Birds? Are we to believe their idiots and just blindly accept the word of a blind, bias pseudoskeptic?

Great. I never claimed there was such evidence, and I repeatedly said they were "likely just birds", because birds seem like the best candidate for something small that flies in V-formation. But apparently that's a bit too difficult for you to understand.

Feel free to answer my questions now.

I hope you can also tell me what do you believe those small targets were, since the pilots didn't actually call them drones, or anything. Were they possibly astrochickens? No sorry, that would be birds again. Astrocats?

a reply to: Nickless

You said:

Great. I never claimed there was such evidence, and I repeatedly said they were "likely just birds"

Just like a pseudoskeptic. It took you all of this time to state the obvious. You have no evidence and your statement was asinine especially when you listen to the Pilots.

You asked:

I hope you can also tell me what do you believe those small targets were, since the pilots didn't actually call them drones, or anything.

Yes, they called them drones.



Starting at 1:13 one Pilot says. It's a drone bro.

The next Pilot says there's a whole fleet of them.

FLEET OF WHAT?

A fleet of drones. One Pilot just says it looks like a drone and the next Pilot points out there's a fleet of drone like objects.

If I say that looks like a bird and then I say look, there's a whole flock of them, you don't need Sherlock Holmes to deduce what I'm talking about.

One ten-year veteran, Lieutenant Ryan Graves, claimed that he saw UFOs almost daily, and that the objects could reach hypersonic speeds and heights of up to 30,000 feet without any visible engine or plumes of infrared exhaust. Graves, who reported his experience to the Pentagon and Congress, said, “These things would be out there all day,” and that, “with the speeds we observed, 12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”

What fascinated Lieutenant Graves about his interactions with the objects was their ability to stop rapidly, turn instantly, and immediately accelerate to hypersonic speed — maneuvers that would burden human pilots with unbearable G-forces. “Speed doesn’t kill you,” Graves said. “Stopping does. Or acceleration.”

There's not a mention of birds by Graves or the other Pilots.

You're blinded by your pseudoskepticism and you can't grasp simple logic.

originally posted by: neoholographic
Yes, they called them drones.

So they were all drones then? One large and many much smaller ones?

a reply to: Nickless

Yep, the Pilots says it looks like a drone.

The other Pilot said, there's a fleet of them.

Again, If I say it looks like a bird and the person with me says, look there's a flock of them, it doesn't take an Einstein to know what we're talking about.

You're just blinded by belief in your pseudoskepticism and you can't grasp simple logic.

It's like pseudoskeptics who act like all eyewitnesses are equally unreliable so you can't weigh the credibility of the witness. It's just the twisted logic of the pseudoskeptic.

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: Nickless

Yep, the Pilots says it looks like a drone.

The other Pilot said, there's a fleet of them.

OK then, so it's not a UFO video anymore, since those targets were identified as drones by infallible pilots.

The large one didn't do anything special, and looked similar on FLIR as known examples of manned planes. The much smaller ones weren't even claimed to have done anything interesting.

originally posted by: Nickless

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: Nickless

Yep, the Pilots says it looks like a drone.

The other Pilot said, there's a fleet of them.

OK then, so it's not a UFO video anymore, since those targets were identified as drones by infallible pilots.

The large one didn't do anything special, and looked similar on FLIR as known examples of manned planes. The much smaller ones weren't even claimed to have done anything interesting.

No, it's a U.F.O. but we know it's not birds. It's something mechanical. We can tell by the descriptions of the Pilots who have had a few encounters with these drone like objects.

“These things would be out there all day,” said Lt. Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who has been with the Navy for 10 years, and who reported his sightings to the Pentagon and Congress. “Keeping an aircraft in the air requires a significant amount of energy. With the speeds we observed, 12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”

“It turned from a potentially classified drone program to a safety issue,” Lieutenant Graves said. “It was going to be a matter of time before someone had a midair” collision. What was strange, the pilots said, was that the video showed objects accelerating to hypersonic speed, making sudden stops and instantaneous turns — something beyond the physical limits of a human crew.

“Speed doesn’t kill you,” Lieutenant Graves said. “Stopping does. Or acceleration.” Asked what they thought the objects were, the pilots refused to speculate. “We have helicopters that can hover,” Lieutenant Graves said. “We have aircraft that can fly at 30,000 feet and right at the surface.” But “combine all that in one vehicle of some type with no jet engine, no exhaust plume.”

Potentially a drone program but these drones move in ways unfamiliar to these Pilots. It's there best explanation. Here's more:

The pilot and his wingman were flying in tandem about 100 feet apart over the Atlantic east of Virginia Beach when something flew between them, right past the cockpit. It looked to the pilot, Lieutenant Graves said, like a sphere encasing a cube.

www.nytimes.com...

That sounds more like 2 of the probes I saw and not any drone. Saying it's birds is just asinine.

Also, the Pilots are infallible compared to you. These Pilots do all of these missions and training exercises and I trust that they know when they're looking at something mechanical that can move at high speeds and stop on a dime vs birds. Why should I listen to a bias pseudoskeptic over these Pilots?

No.

a reply to: neoholographic

You are easily amused and your standards are on the low side. You said: "To me, it's a no brainer that extraterrestrials exist and they have visited earth. I think many of these U.F.O.'s are probes equipped with A.I. like 2 of the 3 that I have encountered." It is a no brainer when a belief is preferred to facts. You have no evidence for your beliefs. Please state why you are convinced that extraterrestrials exist and they have visited earth. Provide irrefutable proof, hearsay doesn't stand up in court.

a reply to: neoholographic

The quantity has gone up, not the quality. Perhaps the worst of the current crop is Alien Highway which is clearly a contrived, scripted sham. With cgi shadow creatures in cemeteries and cgi lights in the sky, phony sinister government agents monitoring the crew from mysterious vehicles, spurious failing camera batteries, affected reactions of suprise from the investigators, and Dan getting into peril or going "missing" almost every episode, it's a laugh-out-loud face-palm disaster of a show.

originally posted by: neoholographic
Potentially a drone program but these drones move in ways unfamiliar to these Pilots. It's there best explanation.

So if you trust the pilots, those were only drones, and if you believe they could have been spaceships or something instead, those pilots wouldn't have been capable of telling a drone from a spaceship.

Apparently you fail to understand that there has been multiple incidents with different features and little reason to suspect all those were same kind of objects. Some are likely planes, some balloons, some birds, and some drones. Most cases likely feature pilot misinterpretations. Pilots after all are known to make those a lot.

And in reality, some split second assessment by the pilots isn't the best explanation, especially in cases like these where the pilots apparently weren't familiar with interpreting infrared imagery, as they were clearly fooled by the apparent movement and rotation, that is parallax and rotation of IR glare. And let me remind you once again that you failed to answer how experienced those pilots were. In reality the best explanation is the one that best fits the available evidence, descriptions, similar known targets in other videos, and is probable to having been there. That is, one plane and a bunch of birds.

a reply to: Nickless

The ufo's most of the pilots are talking about on the programs I have watched are talking about a cubish shaped object, maybe about 40 meters in size, probably metallic, and capable of moving in an instant or a blink of an eye, some have estimated speeds of over 100,000 mph. I think that would eliminate birds, planes and balloons.