2019 Mass Shooter Statistics Indicate more than half of shooters as Black..that can't be right?

a reply to: matafuchs

2019 so far has had 72 mass shootings. A mass shooting is described as one who has 4 or more victims.

51% were Black
29% were White
11% Latino
3 Asians
2 American Indians
1 Arab

I'm not finding those stats at the link. Did you do your own calculations? Or am I missing something?

I've been checking out your link -- and the links in your link. Many perps are listed as "Unknown," and even the linked articles don't specify a race.

But it sure seems that family -- especially women, i.e., mothers, wives/ex-wives, girlfriends/ex-girlfriends -- are by far the most common targets.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
no
the motives are the same imo and the victims are innocent civillians again no different

Agree to (strongly) disagree.
To me, the el paso shooter 'stopping an invasion' by shooting innocents is far different than a gang member killing other gang members. Gangs are at war over turf. Both sides know that they are at war. The people the el paso shooter killed had no idea. That's a huge difference.
As for the long/short gun, I don't think it has as much to do with the gun type, as it does location, size and visibility.
Drug corners and projects have gun crime every day, but it's out of the limelight. It's almost part of life.
What we see in el paso, dayton and others get the attention because of the innocence of the victims and the size/scope of the killings. Had those people used auto-pistols, instead of a rifle, the conversation would not change much, imo. It would still be guns, clip size, semi vs full auto, ect.
I'm not being disingenuous at all. I'm being completely honest with my opinion and have given my reasons for why I feel that way.
It will be the way I feel about it, until or unless someone convinces me otherwise.
As it stands now, in my opinion, there are way more factors that make these incidents different, than factors that make them the same.

a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

To me, the el paso shooter 'stopping an invasion' by shooting innocents is far different than a gang member killing other gang members.

if only the gang members were the only ones ever killed.......some real rose colored glasses you are using there
the innocent civilians know too.....right.....they should just move out of those neighborhoods right???
pfft

What we see in el paso, dayton and others get the attention because of the innocence of the victims and the size/scope of the killings.

as if those caught in between gangs killing each other are any less "innocent" right????

just stop

there is no such thing as a less innocent victim
both those killed in el paso and those killed in chicago are still dead

a reply to: shooterbrody

Don't put words in my mouth.
Of course people get caught in the crossfire and I would never just tell them to move. Most probably would if they could.
I fully acknowledge that innocent people get hurt and killed due to gang violence.

The motive of the shooters is still (far) different, though.

What happened to the honest discussion you seemed to want before?
Now you are just moving to try and see me as ignorant? And you have the nerve to do it after talking about disingenuous arguments a few posts ago?
You can twist this any way that you want to.
Until we agree to disagree, or you can convince me otherwise, I will still believe that a lot of the people on this list, do not belong on the same list as the people who set out to massacre as many people as possible.
The logic of the list is flawed.

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o
a reply to: shooterbrody

Don't put words in my mouth.
Of course people get caught in the crossfire and I would never just tell them to move. Most probably would if they could.
I fully acknowledge that innocent people get hurt and killed due to gang violence.

The motive of the shooters is still (far) different, though.

What happened to the honest discussion you seemed to want before?
Now you are just moving to try and see me as ignorant? And you have the nerve to do it after talking about disingenuous arguments a few posts ago?
You can twist this any way that you want to.
Until we agree to disagree, or you can convince me otherwise, I will still believe that a lot of the people on this list, do not belong on the same list as the people who set out to massacre as many people as possible.
The logic of the list is flawed.

The nonsense you are spewing is the same as Beto down in el Paso. Saying that Trump is racist because a white shooter killed people. The fact is black and Hispanic killers make up a much higher percentage of gun crimes.

Blacks and Hispanics make up 36% of the american population but commit 87% of violent crimes.

You are trying to say that because they are facing economic suffering they are allowed to kill more people and its definitely white hate causing guns to be used for murder.

Get off it. You are being beyond silly. Look at the numbers and facts brah!

Lolz🤪

a reply to: Boadicea


A friend sent a link to this article.

Link

Which led to this...

Link

I also referenced this one that shows by demographic it is pretty much matched as far as number of incidents since 1982.

Link

I also took a look at a few other sites just to make sure it was not skewed.

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o

originally posted by: shooterbrody
no
the motives are the same imo and the victims are innocent civillians again no different

Agree to (strongly) disagree.
To me, the el paso shooter 'stopping an invasion' by shooting innocents is far different than a gang member killing other gang members. Gangs are at war over turf. Both sides know that they are at war. The people the el paso shooter killed had no idea. That's a huge difference.
As for the long/short gun, I don't think it has as much to do with the gun type, as it does location, size and visibility.
Drug corners and projects have gun crime every day, but it's out of the limelight. It's almost part of life.
What we see in el paso, dayton and others get the attention because of the innocence of the victims and the size/scope of the killings. Had those people used auto-pistols, instead of a rifle, the conversation would not change much, imo. It would still be guns, clip size, semi vs full auto, ect.
I'm not being disingenuous at all. I'm being completely honest with my opinion and have given my reasons for why I feel that way.
It will be the way I feel about it, until or unless someone convinces me otherwise.
As it stands now, in my opinion, there are way more factors that make these incidents different, than factors that make them the same.

I disagree and you are wrong. The people of El Paso know all about gun violence.

You think the cartels in mexico use policy and fair negotiations when they are smuggling these people and their heroin across the border?

To say these people dont know the dangers of living in a border city is ridiculous. El paso is more dangerous than chicago and baltimore at this point. You literally said black people in chicago know that they are part of a turf war. You think brown people in El Paso dont know they are part of the wall situation?

If you do think that there is no fixing your limited brain power.

Lolz🤪

a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

The motive of the shooters is still (far) different, though

No. It is the same. To cause death and fear and try to assert control they do not have.

The MAIN reason I posted all of this again was not to defend any side but to show there is really a problem. There are some, as we can even see in this thread, who think one type of murder should be classified one way and one in another way.

Not all 'mass shootings' at schools kill multiple people. Sometimes it is 1 dead 6 inured. Like you might see in a drive by or a gang/crime related scenario.

The problem is the MSM and the elected officials turning a blind eye to the deaths of blacks and in the same breath calling the president a racist.

To not address a problem and hide it away to me shows a greater hate and racial bias than a MAGA hat.

a reply to: Scepticaldem

I don't understand how after so many posts, of me stating my point, you still don't get it.
Are you trolling me?

How could you possible decipher what I'm saying is anything close to what Beto said?
Black and latino's making up more of the gun crime statistic has absolutely zero to do with what I'm talking about.

Again, you put words in my mouth, right after I told you not to.
Where did I say ANYTHING about people being 'allowed' to commit crimes due to their situation?
Do you even read what I post?

Just admit that you don't care about the honest discussion you seemed to want earlier and we can be done.
Better yet, admit that you don't understand the point I'm trying to make and/or you don't want to even try.
Calling me silly, after completely fabricating a narrative for what I'm saying only makes you seem foolish.

a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

The logic of the list is flawed.

we agree on that

I fully acknowledge that innocent people get hurt and killed due to gang violence.

we agree on that

The motive of the shooters is still (far) different, though.

I don't know about that.
Aside from accidental discharges, the motive to murder using a gun is generally the same, to use the gun to murder people.
It appears you think some of the gang related deaths are unintentional or accidental as opposed to the el paso shooter who intended to shoot everyone in sight?
I could agree with that, but both induce terror as the unintentional gang shooting deaths appear to be as random as the people who decided to go to walmart on the day the el paso shooter committed murder.

a reply to: Scepticaldem
My limited brain power?
You just completely misinterpreted what I wrote AND tried to imply that the victims of the el paso shooting were knowingly in danger.
The cartels have zero to do with the point I'm making. Have been reading and understanding my posts, I wouldn't have to explain that to you.
By the way, I didn't 'literally' say black people in Chicago were part of a turf war. I said GANGS know.
Before you criticize someones brain power, learn to read and interpret. Learn what 'literally' means, while your at it.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

The motive of the shooters is still (far) different, though

No. It is the same. To cause death and fear and try to assert control they do not have.

Fair.
In that sense, I agree. It's just a broader motive than the more specific motivation I had in mind.

a reply to: shooterbrody

I get where your coming from. I can see it like that too.
Yes, if we say the motive of killing is simply to kill, we agree.
And yes, both certainly induce terror.
I feel the only unintentional gang related deaths would be bystanders, ect.
What I'm really trying to express is that what we see in instances like sandy hook, aurora, DC snipers, el paso, ect., ect., compared to street/gang violence, is that there's a different mindset.
With gangs it seems like there's killings with a motivation and/or mindset of "this person, or these people are the enemy, I'm going to kill them" Where the lone wolf style massacres have a different motivation/mindset in the sense that they think everyone is the enemy and seek to kill them all.

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o

I mean, 400 and 8000 is a big difference...
Do those stats factor in automatic pistols?

Its called semi-auto as in you pull the trigger with each bullet. A .45 semi-auto holds 8 rounds (big bullet) a 9mm holds about 17 - 22 rounds .40 holds about 15ish. A revolver holds 5 - 8, but can be also extremely large bullets

I'd be more interested in the ratio of murder from semi to full auto guns, to be honest.

Full auto is a military assault rifle close to zero deaths...they are not legal without expensive licences and long processes.

The point I'm trying to get across, is that this list/group of people do not belong in the same category.
The motivation is different and the victims are different.

I think the motivation is the same in all these cases to kill people and become infamous in some sick and crazy way.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Right.
I was asking about fully auto non-rifles, like a tech 9 or uzi, ect. a 'machine pistol' if you will.

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o

What I'm really trying to express is that what we see in instances like sandy hook, aurora, DC snipers, el paso, ect., ect., compared to street/gang violence, is that there's a different mindset.

With gangs it seems like there's killings with a motivation and/or mindset of "this person, or these people are the enemy, I'm going to kill them" Where the lone wolf style massacres have a different motivation/mindset in the sense that they think everyone is the enemy and seek to kill them all.

I agree, and add in most of these mass killings are also a suicide run and gang bangers are not like that. The question is how much does social media play into creating mass murders in their 20s? If you take a person slightly unhinged what does it take to push them to extreme unhinged with all the abilities of social media to give them all the tools and connections to do this. Two crazies with one in CA and the other in NY would never meet 20 years ago, but today they can not only meet very quickly but can have endless conversations to fuel their craziness, as example.

this is very interesting also direct from Wiki....

There are many definitions of a mass shooting. Listed roughly from broad to specific:

Stanford University MSA Data Project: three or more shot in one incident, excluding the perpetrators, at one location, at roughly the same time, excluding organized crime, as well as gang-related and drug-related shootings

Mass Shooting Tracker: four or more shot in one incident, at one location, at roughly the same time

Gun Violence Archive/Vox: four or more shot in one incident, excluding the perpetrators, at one location, at roughly the same time

Mother Jones: three or more shot and killed in one incident, excluding the perpetrators, at a public place


ABC News/FBI: four or more shot and killed in one incident, excluding the perpetrators, at one location, at roughly the same time.

Congressional Research Service: four or more shot and killed in one incident, excluding the perpetrators, at a public place, excluding gang-related killings and those done with a profit-motive

a reply to: matafuchs

Ahhhh... thank you! I think I've already looked at one or two of those sites, but I'll check them all out again. Your OP led me on the quite the tangent yesterday!!!

Much appreciated too. But lots of information to digest and process.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Yes, the expectation of death and/or welcoming of it is something I did not even think about..
I hate to be vague, (then again there really isn't a clear answer to your question)
I think it's hopelessness. Either as a byproduct of, or direct cause of depression.

Hopelessness and depression comes with a lack of passion for anything. A lack of love.
In steps hate, in the absence of love. Now you have a passion.
The hate is either directed either inward towards yourself, or outward towards the world or whet ever else you can blame your state on.
When the hate is directed outward, social media/forums can be a nice platform go spew it out.
Hell, you might even find some validation. When left unchecked, or god forbid encouraged, you can see things like this happen.
My two cents, anyway.

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o

Right.
I was asking about fully auto non-rifles, like a tech 9 or uzi, ect. a 'machine pistol' if you will.

Outside of movies pretty rare..still illegal without the proper registration, so if they are used at all I would say gangs mostly.