Green new deal & eliminating coal/oil - China plans 300-500 new coal plants by 2030!

The idea from the far left of outlawing or taxing fossil fuels to the point that they are too expensive to use is an economic disaster that would put the US at a crippling disadvantage. I find it ludicrous that the country with the largest coal reserves in the world (BY FAR) has politicians pushing to make it impossible to use it as a natural resource. We have so much coal it could supply 100% of our energy even if we had to make liquid fuel from the coal.

China has announced plans to build 300-500 new coal plants by 2030 which is the magical cut off date they have set to move towards "green" energy b/c after that date they will try to phase out coal. Considering coal plants have lasted on average 40-50 years with many lasting 70+ years (many are closed b/c of lack of demand due to other sources like nuclear or hydro coming online) that puts these plants in operating order until 2100. On top of this there are many other nations, like India who are also building or planning new coal plants and China has been contracted to build many coal plants around the world.

This plan to not allow the US to use coal and even petroleum is like sitting in a van (windowless) of 15 chain smokers 24 hours a day and worrying about smoking yourself or thinking that you can escape the effects of the other 15 people.

It seems to me that this whole "green" movement is a means to weaken the coal/oil industry or maybe increase the money spent on the "green" industry, of which the coal/oil industry is actually heavily invested. The idea that we are going to move to a lithium powered future is pretty ridiculous when we look at the available resources and where the raw materials are located - which is in very few locations and the countries that control it have been very tight fisted with extraction and allowing outside corporations to be involved. There is enough lithium for a very small portion of the populace to have the luxury to drive electric vehicles, but if the entire US population moved to this (not to mention the world), there would be extreme manufacturing shortages.

unearthed.greenpeace.org...

www.npr.org...

www.bloomberg.com...

notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com...

China has been selling nuclear reactors to countries for years. The US can't mention the word nuke.

The most depressing part is nuclear is the best option lb for lb and has improved much over the past 40 years. Solar, wind, battery is not going to cut it. It will never cut it. Not enough power and we need more and more.

The only solution is to start WW3 and then eliminate all fossil fuel sources from the whole planet 😎

They are switching from coal to natural gas generation here in the Upper Peninsula. A disaster can cause a loss of electric power here if it effects the pipelines, and we are at risk of our natural gas being diverted elsewhere if they have problems elsewhere. With Coal, the ships bring a whole winters supply of coal here in the summer, which was way more secure than what they are creating. If gas lines get crippled, we could heat with electricity for a while while the lines are repaired, but if everything runs on gas, we are up sheets creek without a paddle.

But that is what we have now, a lot less secure system for our citizens. Up here the winters are very cold, water freezing is a major problem when the heat is out. I think this new energy initiative is nuts, somehow we have created a very fragile and dependent system which can hurt the people in the area really bad. But the nuts running the show here are just that, they cannot fathom we could have a disaster happen which could put us at risk. The grid system can be wiped out by a single tornado, tearing everything up for milesl

originally posted by: rickymouse
They are switching from coal to natural gas generation here in the Upper Peninsula. A disaster can cause a loss of electric power here if it effects the pipelines, and we are at risk of our natural gas being diverted elsewhere if they have problems elsewhere. With Coal, the ships bring a whole winters supply of coal here in the summer, which was way more secure than what they are creating. If gas lines get crippled, we could heat with electricity for a while while the lines are repaired, but if everything runs on gas, we are up sheets creek without a paddle.

But that is what we have now, a lot less secure system for our citizens. Up here the winters are very cold, water freezing is a major problem when the heat is out. I think this new energy initiative is nuts, somehow we have created a very fragile and dependent system which can hurt the people in the area really bad. But the nuts running the show here are just that, they cannot fathom we could have a disaster happen which could put us at risk. The grid system can be wiped out by a single tornado, tearing everything up for milesl

The problem with these Dems' is many of them have never been w/o, be it food, housing, heating/cooling, their entire lives. Maybe they went camping for a weekend, but they CHOSE to do that and it's completely different when living conditions are thrust upon you vs making an active decision. Some people choose to heat with wood but if you MADE them do it and it was their only choice, I suspect many of these people might resent it and actually hate it. The human mind can be weird.

Great point on the pipelines and the "energy security" related to that. I've wondered SOOOOO many times why if we are facing such a terrorist threat in the US, then why haven't we seen these pipelines attacked or even high tension/voltage power lines. I'm not going to say why these are such ridiculously soft targets, you can see where they are in maps & (official and non) and even google earth.

There are also other benefits of coal which people dont' talk about and that is the by product can be used in construction of roads and concrete in many cases. It can greatly reduce the amount of cement needed (cement is the #1 producer of CO2 IIRC - next to energy production) and it is used as aggregate reducing the amount of "scrap rock" that has to be mined or collected. IDK if ash is mixed in with the concrete, I think in some cases, but the ash ponds are a bit of a problem, but I would think this is a relatively small problem to overcome compared to eliminating it from use.

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
China has been selling nuclear reactors to countries for years. The US can't mention the word nuke.

The most depressing part is nuclear is the best option lb for lb and has improved much over the past 40 years. Solar, wind, battery is not going to cut it. It will never cut it. Not enough power and we need more and more.

I agree with the nuclear issue. I don't understand why we don't see more from the industry trying to push it. Is there a law impeding them from building new plant? I know they are having issue with waste disposal ATM, but what have European countries done? They have to be in a similar situation...

I know Bill Gates is investing in some nuclear research that sounds very promising and IIRC it uses the waste produced from our current reactors as the fuel and I think it leaves behind a relatively benign waste product. I'll try to dig up some info on that, check if out if you want..

en.wikipedia.org...

www.geekwire.com...

www.geekwire.com...

I have been saying it for a very long time.

Going green will completely bankrupt us and cause a complete economic disaster.

Everyone thinks I am the crazy one for saying this. I think everyone is crazy for buying into the whole green movement without a real viable option for power generation and jobs.

We need more jobs. It does not matter what study the green movement makes or does. There will be fewer blue collar jobs and the working man and woman will suffer.

It is not about the environment. It is about money.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

China is also the world's largest user of solar power,the largest builder of hydro electric dams, and many of these coal plan will be replacing older less efficient plants.

So,call thing considered, China is still beating the pants off of American in this regard. You don't see Chinese screwing themselves over about renewables like in the us.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

China is also the world's largest user of solar power,the largest builder of hydro electric dams, and many of these coal plan will be replacing older less efficient plants.

So,call thing considered, China is still beating the pants off of American in this regard. You don't see Chinese screwing themselves over about renewables like in the us.

Yup, location checks out.....

With all this fossil burning for hundreds of years, why is it we can see stars millions of miles away at night ? 😎🎯

originally posted by: xuenchen
With all this fossil burning for hundreds of years, why is it we can see stars millions of miles away at night ? 😎🎯

Because most of the fossil fuels were burnt during the day. duhhhh..

It is not the Left or anyone else's in the US's ideology .
It is the UN .
China is basically saying "up yours" to the UN .
A few other countries as well .

Ah, the old coal question. China's push with coal has resulted in China being one of the most polluted places on the planet and is by far the worse culprit when it comes to CO2 emissions.

The US - as an advanced country - should be reducing coal, regardless of the vast reserves of the stuff, because when it comes to being a polluter trying to be like China is not progress. China is not a role model when it comes to these matters.

You don't need to be Green to recognise the benefits of transitioning away from pollution. Whether nuclear is the answer is debatable, but the industry around renewables is encouraging and growing.

As a last observation. It seems to me that the US is being ill-served by vested interests who seem to have corrupted rational debate and discourse. For example, those promoting coal seem to sail on a sea of climate change denial and distrust of environmental advice.

I’m torn on coal. Growing up in Wyoming, a state that has massive amounts of coal, raised by a father was a locomotive engineer for Union Pacific...the coal industry kept my family fed, housed and clothed. As my dad enters retirement, he’s more than financially secure due to his retirement benefits and fiscal responsibility throughout his life.

But the coal industry there is rapidly dying. The miners, equipment operators, and locomotive employees are stuck in a dying industry and the economy is suffering. It’s tough to witness and I’m thankful I made the decision to leave Wyoming to pursue my own life interests. Otherwise I would be in my own economic and fiscal depression.

Coal is an energy of the past. It’s dirty and expensive to obtain. I’m all for cleaner air and more efficient forms of energy. I hope technology and the advancement of human knowledge can continue to push us towards affordable, clean, efficient and reliable energy for everyone.

Wind turbines are great if you don’t mind looking out your window and seeing massive propellers twirling around as far as the eye can see. Nuclear energy is good and all of you’re ok with the possibility of a Fukushima happening in your backyard.

One thing I respected about the coal mines in Wyoming is that they made the landscape right as the mines moved. There was a very minimal impact on the ecosystem. (Also doesn’t hurt that Wyoming’s landscape can change rapidly just by being Wyoming.

Anyway, I don’t really have a point other than Im respectful and appreciative towards coal for giving my dad a great career to rely on as well as many of my friends and family. But I also acknowledge that clean energy is the future and rightfully so.

originally posted by: liejunkie01
I have been saying it for a very long time.

Going green will completely bankrupt us and cause a complete economic disaster.

Everyone thinks I am the crazy one for saying this. I think everyone is crazy for buying into the whole green movement without a real viable option for power generation and jobs.

We need more jobs. It does not matter what study the green movement makes or does. There will be fewer blue collar jobs and the working man and woman will suffer.

It is not about the environment. It is about money.

This green push is like old clothing coming back in style. It was pushed so hard during the 70's. We were suppose to run out of oil. Most scientists truly believed it. Solar power was going to improve, electric cars were the new thing, windmills. Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the White House. It was so cool to be green.

Then reality set in. NONE of it happened. We have more oil than we know what to do with. None of the other tech has improved enough to matter. Solar only works in some areas and it's not that much power for the average American. WIndmills and electric cars are just as much an environmental problem as oil. Oh and recycling is also a joke according to surprisingly Rachel Madow who use to work in the industry.

We need safe cleaner nuclear power, which does exist but the fossil folks keep that out of the conversation entirely.

Coal is needed for base load power period

I like conditioned air

sorry some others do not

the wind doesnt always blow
the sun doesnt always shine

only idiots put all their eggs in one basket

Maybe the US should try to lead. You know, like we used to.

There are better ways to produce energy. Have been for decades.

TPTB just don't wanna give up the easy money. Not an opinion, fact.

a reply to: GrandSchemeOfThings

What better ways?
please by all means provide them

a reply to: Assassin82


I just got back from Wyoming (Casper, Laramie, Cheyenne) and the gas boom is still going very strong. Plenty of hiring signs everywhere.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

the gas boom is still going very strong

windy wednesday usually follows taco tuesday......