I think universal healthcare is stupid

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Logically 12.8 billion for aircraft carriers nevermind the 100s of billions we spend on so-called defense tell quite another story.

Government ain't broke its pockets are bulging nevermind numerous.

Anyhoo i can see there is no convincing you.

Have a nice day anyway.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: ScepticScot

I am going off memory of a conversation from weeks ago. At 2800pounds per person per year, their family of 4 would be paying 14k a year, not 20k. Sorry about that. They were currently spending $1600 (£1300) per person per year for the last 3 years and thought that was ridiculous and that a NHS type system would cost them nothing. I explained to them that in a NHS type system the "ridiculous crazy high" money they had been spending the past 3 years would be their average cost EVERY year.

I currently spend $1000 a year for medical and dental and eyevision.

Family of 4 being 4 adult tax payers?

What's the average cost of medical insurance for 4 adults in the US?

Then take into account that you will still pay towards any treatment you receive as well before your insurance kicks in.

Then remember that you are already paying tax towards government health care that you probably aren't even eligible for.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I pay $1000 a year and have for the past 10 years and the only extra expense I have incurred was when I ate a clam and it had a rock and I chipped my tooth and I needed a root canal and a crown. Insurance paid most of it but I had to eat about $500 I think. So for the past 10 years I have paid a total of $10,500. That is an average of 850 pounds a year for medical, dental, and eyecare treatment. I utilize only the top providers.

I think you misunderstand my main point. These people thought an NHS style system would cost next to nothing a year when the reality is the amount they paid which they found crazy high is the actual yearly cost of the NHS.

So my point is not that the NHS is crazy expensive, it's that people in America don't understand the cost. They think it will cost them a few hundred a year and then they can go crazy getting all the medical treatment they want and it's magic.

I want a dental appointment, I wait a few days. My root canal, I waited 1 day. My crown was put in the next day.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It will indeed cost, that goes without saying, the benefits in the long term far outweigh the cost through, at least for the poor souls that require an NHS.

Dental appointments are a nightmare over here also and the NHS does not cover all those costs.

Stupid as well considering the amount of serious longterm ailments that can arise from having bad teeth.

Save themselves millions if they also sprung for free dental health care for all.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Dude....





Now that might not be true of you but you need to look at the averages and not anecdotal accounts.

As a percentage of GDP Per capita America spends more than anyone else.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: ScepticScot

I pay $1000 a year and have for the past 10 years and the only extra expense I have incurred was when I ate a clam and it had a rock and I chipped my tooth and I needed a root canal and a crown. Insurance paid most of it but I had to eat about $500 I think. So for the past 10 years I have paid a total of $10,500. That is an average of 850 pounds a year for medical, dental, and eyecare treatment. I utilize only the top providers.

I think you misunderstand my main point. These people thought an NHS style system would cost next to nothing a year when the reality is the amount they paid which they found crazy high is the actual yearly cost of the NHS.

So my point is not that the NHS is crazy expensive, it's that people in America don't understand the cost. They think it will cost them a few hundred a year and then they can go crazy getting all the medical treatment they want and it's magic.

I want a dental appointment, I wait a few days. My root canal, I waited 1 day. My crown was put in the next day.

NHS isn't free but per capita health spending is about half what the US spends and covers everyone.

You can also supplement with private care if you wish, which again costs a fraction of cost of private care in US.

Online suggests that a unsubsidized health plan on the US costs closer to 4k a year for an individual, and there will still be upfront costs.

With the NHS me and my family are guaranteed at least a good minimum level of cover regardless if I was to lose my job or not be able to pay.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

So that person complaining about spending $1300 a year so he wants universal healthcare is going to now spend $8000 a year for it? WOW sounds like he is going to be pissed if he gets his way.

a reply to: ScepticScot

My entire post was about cost and the person thinking $1300 a year is too much so we need universal healthcare because it's free. It's not. It's expensive. Someone spending $1300 a year now will pay MORE if universal healthcare is brought to America.

Democrats plan makes private insurance illegal, so you can NOT have private insurance if they institute their will.

Maybe you missed it, I am for universal healthcare done right. Democrats will destroy America with their plans.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: ScepticScot

My entire post was about cost and the person thinking $1300 a year is too much so we need universal healthcare because it's free. It's not. It's expensive. Someone spending $1300 a year now will pay MORE if universal healthcare is brought to America.

Democrats plan makes private insurance illegal, so you can NOT have private insurance if they institute their will.

Maybe you missed it, I am for universal healthcare done right. Democrats will destroy America with their plans.

I suspect there are very few people currency paying 1300 a year for 4 adults to be covered in the US. The vast majority of people in the UK (or anywhere in the EU) pay far less than the average person in the US.

I agree that banning all private insurance is a spectacularly stupid idea.

a reply to: andy06shake

Sounds like you would love my healthcare. I pay 800 pounds a year, get top line healthcare, top line dental, and any time I need an appointment I wait a few days.

But I will say my actual costs are double that. My employer pays half my cost, which really is me paying it indirectly through them.

So my actual cost for worldclass health/dental/vision is 1600pounds a year ($2,050 USD). That is my cost AFTER I include additional payments I have had to make.

The only real difference between the health system in the us and the uk is that in the us there is another group with a hand out, taking a big chunk of money that in no way improves treatment, and In the us they get to charge you whatever they want for drugs and service. Either way we are all paying for everyone else’s care, but the us has to pay pharma and hospital profits for those without healthcare too.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I'm just happy we still have an NHS over here OccamsRazor04.

The amount of National Insurance you pay depends on your employment status and how much you earn.

Essentially if you earn more than £166 a week you pay National Insurance contributions.

America is great at everything, all the same, are they not?

If we can manage it then so can you, that's a given.

a reply to: ScepticScot

These people had no insurance. The 4 of them had an average cost of $5,000 each spread out over 3 years. They thought $1300/year each was crazy high.

A big reason why healthcare in the UK costs less is that you simply don't pay healthcare workers a fair wage. Go tell nurses in the US they are getting their pay cut to 30% what they make now.

My wife makes more as a nurse, working 3 days a week, no overtime, almost straight out of college, in an EXTREMELY low wage state, than most MD make in the UK. My wife makes about 50k pounds, my brother in law in Cali with 1 year experience makes 75k pounds (thats 60k USD and 90k USD).

We have a HUGE shortage or nurses even with that pay.

Another thing to keep in mind when considering the costs of both systems. I’m guessing I’m the uk and other places, that people go to the doc or hospital.... whenever they are sick. Whereas in the us the vast majority of people only go when they absolutely have to die to deductibles and copays. So not only is the healthcare in other places much cheaper, they probably use it much more too.

thinking universal healthcare is stupid, is stupid.

a reply to: andy06shake

Like I said, I like national health insurance, but not healthcare. I see no reason to fatten up insurance execs. But it needs to be done right, and right now that's not possible.

Illegals in America consume about $20 billion in healthcare. That's 16% of your entire NHS budget. Many of the healthcare outcomes in America are not insurance driven but provider driven. Rural areas with 50% insurance rates may have 0 providers, what good is their insurance?

The situation is far more complex than it is made out to be.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: ScepticScot

These people had no insurance. The 4 of them had an average cost of $5,000 each spread out over 3 years. They thought $1300/year each was crazy high.

A big reason why healthcare in the UK costs less is that you simply don't pay healthcare workers a fair wage. Go tell nurses in the US they are getting their pay cut to 30% what they make now.

My wife makes more as a nurse, working 3 days a week, no overtime, almost straight out of college, in an EXTREMELY low wage state, than most MD make in the UK. My wife makes about 50k pounds, my brother in law in Cali with 1 year experience makes 75k pounds (thats 60k USD and 90k USD).

We have a HUGE shortage or nurses even with that pay.

Hm. I’m an ultrasound tech, and I’ve looked at offers in the uk, considered going over for a year or two. Pay is about the same for me.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Mate, we don't pay many people a fair wage, nevermind a living one.

That's a big problem over here.

Tell you this privatizing what's left of our NHS, nevermind zero-hour contracts combined with a minimum wage, don't seem to be helping matters.

Which is quite possibly by design, in fact, there is no possibly about it.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Illegal people mate, its kind of a misnomer at best.

Problem is those imaginary lines on the maps.

Poor sods simply canny see them from there perspective.

The situation is indeed far more complex on that i can assure you we do agree.

It's the possible solutions we seem to share a difference of opinion on i suppose.

a reply to: pexx421

Another is that as a nurse I can make £160k-£240k straight out of school when I finish. Whereas in the UK you are looking at £17k-£30k.