I think universal healthcare is stupid

a reply to: andy06shake

The problems is not right or left, the problem is the existence of the poor who require the assistance of others and their government where there continued existence is preferable.

Medicare and Medicaid.

SoOo... that's already covered... the poor, the elderly, etc.

So what else do we need, do you think?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Eh? It's £1,109 per year.

a reply to: andy06shake

It IS a problem of the left, when they would institute a system that would greatly hurt Americans. Freebies don't exist as much as the left likes to pretend they do.

a reply to: Lumenari

No, the hospitals should be paid for via taxes and national insurance contributions.

That way there continued existence is guaranteed as long as people get sick and require medical assistance.

Or we can simply let them all die and find some other demographic to obliterate next that we do not like nor can be bothered to deal with nor address.

We don't have all the answers nether, might not even have a national health service soon enough if truth be told and austerity keeps going the way as planned.

a reply to: Lumenari

Quite a bit, and then some I'm afraid.

And it's not just you nether.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lumenari

No, the hospitals should be paid for via taxes and national insurance contributions.

That way there continued existence is guaranteed as long as people get sick and require medical assistance.

Or we can simply let them all die and find some other demographic to obliterate next that we do not like nor can be bothered to deal with nor address.

We don't have all the answers nether, might not even have a national health service soon enough if truth be told and austerity keeps going the way as planned.

So if you tank the economy, how exactly are you going to pay for this again?

And how does that help anyone, exactly?

Keep in mind, we already pay for Medicaid... it covers the poor and the people on assistance.

Or did you forget about that?

Stop pearl-clutching on OMFG the poor are all going to die!!!

Because the poor in this country already live a lot better than someone in the lower middle class on the taxpayer's dime.

Frame your argument a little better, because I don't think at this point you have any clue what you are even talking about.

a reply to: bastion

Can you source that, that is absolutely NOT what the NHS says. I have seen between £2200-£2800

In pounds per head, that's £2,892 on healthcare for every person in the UK

www.bbc.com...

The government plans to spend around £122 billion on health in England in 2017/18, or roughly £2,200 per person

fullfact.org...

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown
a reply to: rockintitz

Lol, so I am from the UK, and according to you I must be a bigot because I pay into a system which helps others who are less fortunate, if you are rich enough you can pay for private health care in the UK still ad still have access to the NHS, best of both bigoted worlds.

America where we watch our neighbours die with glee knowing it did not cost me a dime, its all about the money baby, screw society.

you can thank the US for providing the vast, vast majority of medical innovations thanks to all the money that's put into research and development. if America had national healthcare, I'm not sure who would be coming up with all these advancements.

a reply to: Lumenari

The economy is only tanking when "They" require so.

Plenty of monies all over the globe, most of such just sitting there in offshore bank accounts if truth be told.

Stop pearl-clutching ffs???

Millions of people die each year in both our respective supposed first world nations down to poverty and lack of basic healthcare and amenities.

I don't think at this point you have a heart my friend, hope you never find yourself in need to medical assistance that you cannot pay for nor will ever materialize if truth be told, might teach you a hard lesson all the same, or not as the case may be.

a reply to: andy06shake

You mean like what happened under Obama when the government decided to pay for it by not paying for it? They simply paid 30 cents for every dollar we billed. Doctors quit, and we went from a staff ratio of 4 nurses 4 techs for 12 patients (geriatric psychiatric with lots of additional medical problems) to 4 techs and 4 nurses for 26 patients. We still lose money, but not much. Level of care dropped down to barely being able to provide basic care, therapeutic interventions for long term outcomes ceased to exist.

I went years without a raise. Under Trump the pay raises are booming though. My wife has had an almost 30% pay increase under Trump. We had 10% increase in 6 years before that.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Is Trump's notion of what constituted medical care not already dead on arrival?

I'm just up for helping people with less than i have without complaining as to the cost nor where they hail from or what postcode they come from.

Don't need to lose money, all you need to do is fund such a system adequately thus reap the rewards for everyone.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

From the HM Treasury Tax Summary for financial year 2009/10 which have barely increased due to austerity. The 2017/18 figures are here: www.gov.uk... ry -

The BBC figures are amount spent per capita, not the amount each taxpayers contributes towards the NHS. Employers pay a large amount of National Insurance which is why the amount avg taxpayers pay is far less than the amount spent per capita.

Any source for your $20k per year claim?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: bastion

Can you source that, that is absolutely NOT what the NHS says. I have seen between £2200-£2800

In pounds per head, that's £2,892 on healthcare for every person in the UK

www.bbc.com...

The government plans to spend around £122 billion on health in England in 2017/18, or roughly £2,200 per person

fullfact.org...

That's still quite a bit different that 20k per year you said on the previous page.

I believe Bastions figure is the amount from direct tax an average person pays. There are obviously in direct and non personal taxes contributing as well.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You mean hurt rich privileged Americans.

And why should they not be made to pay? Can the 1%ers not afford it?

Nothing is free, not even there continued existence im afraid.

In the end, it will all balance out i suppose.

A load of dead poor people before that happens all the same.

a reply to: andy06shake

Great, start buying health insurance for people and you can already do that. You honestly seem to have no idea at all how healthcare works if you think you just fund it and it's peaches and cream. Do you have any idea what the government currently does to avoid paying hospitals? The latest push is to pay based on patient satisfaction scores rather than client outcome scores.

They do this because many times what is good for the patient doesn't make the patient happy. So if the patient wants more opioids and you as the healthcare professional know it's not good to increase their opioid medication, so you manage pain in other ways, you are going to get lower satisfaction scores and better outcome scores. But you just lost money. So now all the Dr and RN will give patients what they want even if it will not be good for them because the government has made the patient satisfaction score the goal.

So now you will have more adverse effects such as addiction and constipation and discomfort. Thanks government!

a reply to: andy06shake

How much of the US taxes are paid for by the top 1%?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Just help the poor souls that require help OccamsRazor04 and stop moaning about who has to pay.

The government can afford it no matter what #e they try and shovel.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Nowhere near enough hence there continued existence.

The fact that we have a 1% speaks volumes in this day of age.

Quite simple really.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I am going off memory of a conversation from weeks ago. At 2800pounds per person per year, their family of 4 would be paying 14k a year, not 20k. Sorry about that. They were currently spending $1600 (£1300) per person per year for the last 3 years and thought that was ridiculous and that a NHS type system would cost them nothing. I explained to them that in a NHS type system the "ridiculous crazy high" money they had been spending the past 3 years would be their average cost EVERY year.

I currently spend $1000 a year for medical and dental and eyevision.

a reply to: andy06shake

Yes let's just keep taking because the well never runs dry. Impossible to debate with someone who has no logical position to debate.

How about we start the taking with you. When you are willing to be the first let me know, I will find some great charities you can give everything to. Until you are willing to do that, I don't care about your desire to steal from others.

Question, in a few years when the 1% is gone and you have stolen all they own, who will you steal from then?