I think universal healthcare is stupid

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: BuckyWunderlick

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: BuckyWunderlick

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: BuckyWunderlick

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: BuckyWunderlick

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: BuckyWunderlick

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: BuckyWunderlick

We will pay them no matter what happens.

May as well get something out of it for everyone aka the NHS.

Helps millions of us survive that would otherwise be dead.

Just ask any recipient of an organ transplant should you require clarification.

I can’t imagine how you survived before the NHS. Just dropping like flies. Millions dying. Certainly you weren’t the greatest empire in history.

The NHS was created as society wasn't willing to carry on with the arbitrary way health care was provided prior to the second world.

Thats a round about way of saying It was unwilling to provide healthcare so it delegated that responsibility to the government.

No. it is willing to provide it so pays for it through taxation

The society currently unwilling to provide it to all is the US.

The only segment of society that is providing healthcare is the government. A society is much larger than it’s government.

That is not the case in the US, where healthcare is a product of the citizens.

Society can choose to provide services to it's members. The way that is done in a modern democracy is through government.

Most who decided that are dead and gone.

The UK government could privatize the NHS if it wanted.

They won't because it remains overwhelming supported even by most of those on the right in the UK.

Too decadent. They have long forgotten what freedom and duty to one another is like.

Ok. Whatever.

I will go enjoy being decadent, I may wear a smoking jacket.

Lol.

Fair. I know it’s a weird argument.

a reply to: BuckyWunderlick

You do realise that there is pretty much zero support for privatisation of the NHS in the UK, I get that such a system might not work for America but that in no way makes it "decedent" to have a socialised healthcare system. We love our NHS, like some of you lot love your second amendment its that engrained our society.

There is nothing wrong with having a NHS, its just a different system, the arrogance of claiming its "decedent" speaks volumes to that stereotype about American arrogance.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: BuckyWunderlick

You do realise that there is pretty much zero support for privatisation of the NHS in the UK, I get that such a system might not work for America but that in no way makes it "decedent" to have a socialised healthcare system. We love our NHS, like some of you lot love your second amendment its that engrained our society.

There is nothing wrong with having a NHS, its just a different system, the arrogance of claiming its "decedent" speaks volumes to that stereotype about American arrogance.

I understand, it’s a difficult argument. It’s about the decline and fall of civilizations.

But when the government absolves you of your duty to one another for so long, the instincts to help one another atrophy.

originally posted by: schuyler
The problem with the "right" to healthcare is that it creates a whole class of slaves, those who provide it. If your "right" depends on the labor of others, it isn't a "right" at all. If you force me to labor on your behalf, I'm a slave.

Yet your taxes fund wars and support the military as well as provide subsidies for oil giants.

Are you calling yourself a slave to big oil and the war machine?

originally posted by: rockintitz
I think universally, in America, healthcare is already a right.
You cannot stop me from paying for health insurance. Checkmate, bigot.
Stop making me pay for someone elses health insurance. I don't want to do that.

Thank you for sharing.

a reply to: rockintitz

You seem like a very arrogant and aggressive person. To your point, let me ask you a question: Do people in the States die from easily treatable illness because they cannot afford to pay for the medicine? Do people in the States go bankrupt because they have to decide to pay for medicine to live or have a roof over their head? Are there people in America rationing things like Insulin because they cannot afford or are not sure if they can afford their next dose? Are there Americans who live in chronic pain because they cannot afford health insurance? Is American healthcare actually about helping people with medical issues or a money making scheme? Are Americans told they cannot get certain medication because it is not in their policy?

The answer to all those questions is Yes. Literally every question I just posted for you, the answer is yes. Now lets consider the British system and what is the answer? No. This is why universal credit is a system that is about the health of the patient and not the money in their bank. The US government, healthcare insurance companies etc have spent billions possibly more on propaganda to get Americans to think that their system is better, a system where you can be turned away because you are not paying enough to get healthcare. The American healthcare system is right for the rich, for those who can afford good healthcare insurance but those who cannot either go without, buy from other countries and break the law having them sent into the US or they go out of the United States and go to places like Canada (which apparently has seen a massive increase in the number of Americans coming).

You're post is pointless and needs no reply because you're attempting to do a Steven Crowder skit only you've missed the "change my mind" portion although you clearly don't want your mind changed. Remember one important fact, you might like your healthcare insurance now but maybe not a week from now, or a month or even a year but one day you might not be able to afford that great policy of yours and it might be you among the many millions of Americans taking health holidays and coming to other countries (including the UK, Canada etc) for healthcare.

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: FinallyAwake

Why am i responsible for paying for someone else's well being? Why should the money that i work for be distributed to people that dont work, because the state says so?

Because we live in a community, a village, a town, a city a state, a country. We work together, that's how we get 5hit done.
So build a bridge and get over it.
What the hell as gotten into you? (rhetorical)
Jeez. 🙄

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I have literally nothing bad to say about the NHS, UK healthcare is the business of the UK only. I just don't understand how nurses can live on those wages.

a reply to: FinallyAwake

You missed his point. Working together there is an expectation of working when you are able to, and not being a drain to society because you choose to be.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

They cant, some of them have been forced to use food banks and cannot even afford to pay for childcare.

That's people who are employed, what we would consider to be skilled and valuable workers.

www.independent.co.uk...
www.dailymail.co.uk...

a reply to: andy06shake

Why would anyone want to be a nurse under those conditions. So many smart capable people would choose another path. Sad.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I imagine its still a calling for some.

If there is one thing the world requires its more nurses.

Especially considering our aging populations.

a reply to: andy06shake

Yes, some will still do it. Many will not who otherwise would. One of my instructors just got offered $300k/yr as a nurse practitioner in Chicago, and $260k/yr in Pittsburgh.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Well, the answer is self-evident, at least over here, simply train the required amount of nurses and pay them a proper wage ta boot.

Guarantee that's a whole lot easier said than done all the same, especially if the Tories have anything to say about the matter.

Apparently, austerity is over, but you try telling the people who are forced to use food banks or the 320,000+ homeless persons that reside within our borders such.

They poor sods just don't seem to be able to grasp the concept, and "They" simply don't care.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: BuckyWunderlick

The only segment of society that is providing healthcare is the government.

Pretty big private healthcare sector in the UK....am just saying.

If you want to you can go pay to have your hip op or what ever done a few weeks sooner probably by the same surgeon.

It's similar here in oz, a number of years ago a friend of mine put her fingers into the lawnmower, it's was bad, I took her to the local private hospital and they were like if you want the surgery here Pay a few thousand dollars and fill out a whole bunch of paperwork. Alternatively you can go to the public hospital a few kilometers away and have the surgery done free with no paperwork by the very same specialist surgeon. So we went to the public hospital And she was operated on that afternoon.

a reply to: andy06shake

Because it would increase the cost of NHS by about 10% I imagine. Then you would need to increase Dr wage, increasing it by another 5%.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

The fact of the matter is if wages don't increase soon it won't matter as to the increase in NHS cost, because the nation simply won't be able to cope nor function.

And that not just where nurses or the NHS are concerned, but in rather a few walks of life.

Austerity ain't going nowhere this side of Brexit, not any time soon after.

To say this nation is on its knees with its head in the sand and a thumb up the bum would be too put it mildly.

We simply don't have a clue what's going to happen next, and if it was not bloody so darn tragic, it would be hilarious.

I suppose Brexit is the ultimate joke that only rich twats get.

a reply to: andy06shake

I agree, just saying that is my thought as to why they won't do it. Politicians are more interested in what happens during their term and not interested in the long term consequences. Kick the can down the road.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

"They" need to be smashed over the head with the can.

Repeatedly.

True what you say all the same, all they do is to kick the can down the road.

It's pathetic, so why the feck they get away with it time after time is quite frankly beyond me.

a reply to: andy06shake

In America it's because they create an Us vs Them, D vs R environment. So it's all about your 'team' winning, not America.