U.S. Citizen Detained For Weeks, Nearly Deported By Immigration Officials

originally posted by: shooterbrody


I doubt there was anything dubious going on with ice.

I can agree with this, and logically seems to be the most likely as well. Who was it that said don't attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence? I'd wager there was probably a little of that all around that led to this error.

a reply to: Wayfarer

The entire situation would have been avoided had his mom not falsified his documents.
How some seem to excuse this I do not understand.

a reply to: Wayfarer

I would be pissed at my mother if she caused me all that trouble.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Wayfarer

The entire situation would have been avoided had his mom not falsified his documents.
How some seem to excuse this I do not understand.

I don't know if its folks directly excusing the mother, but rather the kid. Like, most people would think it reasonable that the mother suffer for those errors, it just feels archaic that the kid is the one suffering for his mothers mistake. I also think its the aspect of 'suffering' that some folks have a problem with. Like if the kid was being kept in more comfortable accomodations with more liberties allowed I would wager the % of people getting huffy over it would be greatly reduced.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Wayfarer

I would be pissed at my mother if she caused me all that trouble.

Amen to that. I can think of one less mother getting flowers for mothers day....

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Wayfarer

So you are simply making false statements then. Hint, I have the signatures of my ancestors coming legally into Ellis Island. So go spew your nonsensical progressive talking points elsewhere.

Did you know that almost everyone could come to the US legally? Here's a short timeline of US immigration law:
At the founding of the country - No immigration law.
1882 - All immigrants are welcome, except for the Chinese.
1923 - Immigration quotas established. Illegal immigration wasn't enforced other than at a few border checkpoints, but this severely limited certain groups from coming legally (not staying illegally however).
1932 - Almost all immigration shut down.
1940 - Immigration once again allowed.
1943 - Chinese immigration ban of 1882 repealed.
1965 - Immigration quotas changed from country based to needed skills
1986 - Laws passed to hunt down and deport illegals, as well as to go after anyone who employs illegals

So, as you can see, for most of the nations history having documentation that you were here legally was trivial. If your ancestors came to Ellis Island in say 1900 literally the only criteria to be here legally was that you didn't have a severe mental handicap, weren't visibly terminally ill, and that you weren't Chinese. If you passed that, you were in.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
Were I "in his position" I would have done the same thing I guess. Not a lot more than he can do than have an attorney work with the authorities to verify his identification.

The 23 day detention I have a problem with. Did he just sit and not speak to anyone? How did he make contact with his attorney? I think there is more to this than the press is letting on. Just my opinion.

Because attorneys are well aware of the fact that American citizens are being detained illegally, and that they need help to get out of those camps. As such, many have been volunteering their time in those facilities to help those people, as they have no way to contact the outside to get their services... and if they did, many have no money to pay for those legal services.

As for what he did, mostly he just sat in an overcrowded cell, and watched himself waste away from hunger, as that's the only way to lose 27 pounds in 23 days.

a reply to: Aazadan

That's exactly the point I was making when he was stating my ancestors were probably illegal as well. It was an incredibly stupid statement. He signed at Ellis Island, that means he passed the physical exam and came in the proper way of the time.

a reply to: Wayfarer

I don't know if its folks directly excusing the mother, but rather the kid.

Seems the 18 year old, most commonly refereed to as an adult, had little responsibility for this other than carrying falsified identification. The facts about what he knew were not covered in the reports I have read. If he did not know I feel sorry for him.

Like if the kid was being kept in more comfortable accomodations with more liberties allowed I would wager the % of people getting huffy over it would be greatly reduced.

I don't think there is much within that system that is designed to be "comfortable". That system as I understand it is designed to be temporary and not designed for the numbers is is currently experiencing.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Wayfarer

So you are simply making false statements then. Hint, I have the signatures of my ancestors coming legally into Ellis Island. So go spew your nonsensical progressive talking points elsewhere.

Did you know that almost everyone could come to the US legally? Here's a short timeline of US immigration law:
At the founding of the country - No immigration law.
1882 - All immigrants are welcome, except for the Chinese.
1923 - Immigration quotas established. Illegal immigration wasn't enforced other than at a few border checkpoints, but this severely limited certain groups from coming legally (not staying illegally however).
1932 - Almost all immigration shut down.
1940 - Immigration once again allowed.
1943 - Chinese immigration ban of 1882 repealed.
1965 - Immigration quotas changed from country based to needed skills
1986 - Laws passed to hunt down and deport illegals, as well as to go after anyone who employs illegals

So, as you can see, for most of the nations history having documentation that you were here legally was trivial. If your ancestors came to Ellis Island in say 1900 literally the only criteria to be here legally was that you didn't have a severe mental handicap, weren't visibly terminally ill, and that you weren't Chinese. If you passed that, you were in.

Oh I'm well aware of that fact, but kudo's on you for listing out the timeline of immigration reform. I used that as the basis for my hypothetical precisely for that fact, since the irony of the situation was so delicious.

a reply to: Aazadan

And more incoming bs....

Because attorneys are well aware of the fact that American citizens are being detained illegally

His own attorney stated otherwise. Stop with the lies. He was not detained illegally.

as they have no way to contact the outside to get their services

more lies
I posted sources stating such here.
Stop

As for what he did, mostly he just sat in an overcrowded cell

You don't know that and if you have a source stating such FROM HIM i would love to see it.

and watched himself waste away from hunger, as that's the only way to lose 27 pounds in 23 days

He was fed 3 times a day.
Whether he ate or not may be a different story.

a reply to: Aazadan

Seriously?

Have even read your cited US laws?

Processes evolved over time and there was still "legal" involved as time moved forward.

My ancestors are on the Dawes
Rolls...thank gawd my relatives didn't lie on paper.

If I forged my children's identity for e.g.. school as a convenience and later discovered...would there not be a price to pay by me? The cost transmitred my my actions to my kids would be/fall on my shoulders period with a big 'shame on me'...

"I am not in favor of random border checks
I am also not in favor of people making fake documents "

The above quote is ridiculous...favor?
I'm not in favor of murder...it happens.

mg
mg

originally posted by: shooterbrody

I don't think there is much within that system that is designed to be "comfortable". That system as I understand it is designed to be temporary and not designed for the numbers is is currently experiencing.

Oh for sure. I think that's one of the most emotional aspects (for me at least), is the idea that regardless of peoples opinions on immigration and the laws therein, almost nobody wants people/kids to suffer. I'm sure there has been a ton of incorrect and false inflammatory information passed around liberal circles to drum up sympathy/support, just as there has likely been a fair bit of counter information (also false) about how its not really that bad in more conservative circles.

Out of curiosity what do you think would be the best solution in the short term to alleviate the suffering aspect of these immigration issues?

a reply to: Wayfarer

There is no irony, only your ignorance and you being wrong. Because you knew immigration was easier and they almost could not be illegal in the past ... you made comments about people from that time (who you know could not be illegal) probably being here illegally.

Makes sense.

a reply to: missed_gear

So those problems should fall on you. Not your kid. If you make up fake documents, why should your kid be the one who sits in jail, and be tortured to encourage them to self deport?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Wayfarer

There is no irony, only your ignorance and you being wrong. Because you knew immigration was easier and they almost could not be illegal in the past ... you made comments about people from that time (who you know could not be illegal) probably being here illegally.

Makes sense.

Lol, dude I'm flattered if you've got some vendetta against me but you're grasping at straws to get a rise out of me when it isn't gonna happen.

I mean, if you want to shout WRONG! over and over at me because it helps you relieve stress or makes you feel better in some way then I can understand that and won't begrudge you that catharsis. If you want to help me to understand your viewpoint into how you think I am incorrect I think there are better ways of going about it.

To explain, the Irony I referenced was in regards to the fact that the hypothetical time period I used had 'practically' no limitations on immigrating. We've already been through this once already where I've had to explain to you why I used a hypothetical. The Irony wasn't to affect or be a slight on you or anyone I posed the hypothetical towards, but rather to interject some levity/humor into the fact I referenced a time in our history when immigration was entirely within what you would consider a 'liberal' purview.

a reply to: Wayfarer

Out of curiosity what do you think would be the best solution in the short term to alleviate the suffering aspect of these immigration issues?

Enforce the laws we have.
It would alleviate the suffering as it would reduce the amount of people in the system.
If they are illegal and have broken the law they need to go. It would eliminate the overcrowding and stress on the system.
build the wall, physical, technological ect.... make those seeking to come here do so at the points WE designate, that will also eliminate the overcrowding

I am all for people wanting to come here and get their own american dream
as long as they do it legally

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Wayfarer

Out of curiosity what do you think would be the best solution in the short term to alleviate the suffering aspect of these immigration issues?

Enforce the laws we have.
It would alleviate the suffering as it would reduce the amount of people in the system.
If they are illegal and have broken the law they need to go. It would eliminate the overcrowding and stress on the system.
build the wall, physical, technological ect.... make those seeking to come here do so at the points WE designate, that will also eliminate the overcrowding

I am all for people wanting to come here and get their own american dream
as long as they do it legally

Roger that. So am I understanding you correctly that you wouldn't want to alleviate/ameliorate the suffering of folks already caught up in the system and suffering (like the 18 y/o) in any way, but rather let the suffering stand as a warning/message to dissuade future immigrants from not taking the forms seriously enough or from illegally entering the country?

a reply to: Wayfarer

If the overcrowding was gone there would be no "suffering"
They are sheltered and fed
How is that "suffering"?

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: missed_gear

So those problems should fall on you. Not your kid. If you make up fake documents, why should your kid be the one who sits in jail, and be tortured to encourage them to self deport?

Tortured? Just stop the ignorance.

The brother chose to self deport...easier than proving his mother's falsifications and affect the other brother.

To answer, no child of mine would, has ever or will be ever be at risk of detention from me attempting to scam the systen. I would never send my kids across the border without proper documentation and never with undocumented persons, especially with knowledge of who they are; return with law breakers

The risk was there, their mother took it. The price they paid was all about her.

mg