Our economy stinks

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: SeaWorthy


I thought they meant gap between income and expense?

Actually meant more like;

In the 1950s, a typical CEO made 20 times the salary of his or her average worker. Last year, CEO pay at an S&P 500 Index firm soared to an average of 361 times more than the average rank-and-file worker, or pay of $13,940,000 a year, according to an AFL-CIO's Executive Paywatch news release today. May 22, 2018

But that goes hand in hand. The average american has less purchasing power with their wages, compared to almost anytime in history, and COL is higher than ever.

We live in the Corporatocracy of America now. Big business makes the rules, and tells you the numbers, and if you don't like it, there's the door, we will find someone to fill your shoes, or ship your job to (insert even lower avg wage country here).

The typical CEO today is running a much larger global enterprise than companies in the 50s.... CEO compensation is also more equity based with stock options. Few CEOs make $14 million in salary. CEO comp can vary wildly from year to year based on stock options. Most make salaries of $1 - $3 million. Stock does well an they get a huge windfall in a year.

So you dont call it a salary, call it total earnings from employment. You are arguing semantics.

The gross overpayment of these people is not justified by the size of the companies. By in large, when the companies grow like this, they also add jobs/titles to manage the increase in size. So yes, a pay increase is expected, but not the exorbitant packages they get today.

I come from corporate. I sold 55mil/yr in product, ran the state of TN by myself, for almost a decade. I know I was not paid my fair share (even 1% commish would be 550k), while my CFO and CEO made bank, for partying, and only working when absolutely neccessary.

Yes, some are over paid, but I can say that about any profession. CEO salaries are driven by competition and boards of directors/shareholders. If you don't like what a CEO makes, buy some shares in the company and vote against the boards authorizing their compensation packages.

Yea, totally feasible. When these companies have devalued our dollar so far, kinda hard to come up with investment principal.

These corps are making record high profit margins, have record high compensation packages, and then pay record low wages, and employee benefits. What world are you living in?

I think from their posts that they recognize the trend of income inequality over time becoming more extravagant, and like anyone, they can extrapolate the end result of it continuing until a tiny percentage of the population actually owns everything, and everyone else has nothing but debt. But they just don’t care because they assume they and possibly their progeny, will be among the privileged few, or getting the poverty they deserve because they just didn’t work hard enough. Which is apparently ok with them.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: SeaWorthy


I thought they meant gap between income and expense?

Actually meant more like;

In the 1950s, a typical CEO made 20 times the salary of his or her average worker. Last year, CEO pay at an S&P 500 Index firm soared to an average of 361 times more than the average rank-and-file worker, or pay of $13,940,000 a year, according to an AFL-CIO's Executive Paywatch news release today. May 22, 2018

But that goes hand in hand. The average american has less purchasing power with their wages, compared to almost anytime in history, and COL is higher than ever.

We live in the Corporatocracy of America now. Big business makes the rules, and tells you the numbers, and if you don't like it, there's the door, we will find someone to fill your shoes, or ship your job to (insert even lower avg wage country here).

The typical CEO today is running a much larger global enterprise than companies in the 50s.... CEO compensation is also more equity based with stock options. Few CEOs make $14 million in salary. CEO comp can vary wildly from year to year based on stock options. Most make salaries of $1 - $3 million. Stock does well an they get a huge windfall in a year.

So you dont call it a salary, call it total earnings from employment. You are arguing semantics.

The gross overpayment of these people is not justified by the size of the companies. By in large, when the companies grow like this, they also add jobs/titles to manage the increase in size. So yes, a pay increase is expected, but not the exorbitant packages they get today.

I come from corporate. I sold 55mil/yr in product, ran the state of TN by myself, for almost a decade. I know I was not paid my fair share (even 1% commish would be 550k), while my CFO and CEO made bank, for partying, and only working when absolutely neccessary.

Yes, some are over paid, but I can say that about any profession. CEO salaries are driven by competition and boards of directors/shareholders. If you don't like what a CEO makes, buy some shares in the company and vote against the boards authorizing their compensation packages.

Yea, totally feasible. When these companies have devalued our dollar so far, kinda hard to come up with investment principal.

These corps are making record high profit margins, have record high compensation packages, and then pay record low wages, and employee benefits. What world are you living in?

I live in the real world with facts and logic; not this fantasy Utopian pipe dream you seem to reside in.

Profit margins are relatively thin at most businesses. Amazon is doing like $100 billion in sales... they only make about 3 to 5 cents on a dollar in profit. In other words, for every dollar they bring in only 3 cents is actual profit. That could be wiped out with any small misstep.

Corporate profit is reinvested back into the business to fund capital projects and other investments. Pays shareholder dividends, etc.

Simpletons like you just think the board just sits around having orgies in $100 bills...

And here comes the insults. Typical of the uneducated. I have a background in economics, and a bachelor's degree in business. I was a wholesale distributor for 10yrs, and my state alone did over 500 mil in sales, all through me. I have seen what happens in the corporate world first hand.

I mean you are seriously defending the people who have drove up our COLI and lowered the DI. This is a clown world. Reeee and honk to you sir.

It’s like they completely fail to see the problems presented by the rising disparity, the inability of a poor citizenry to keep an economy afloat through consumption, or a deindustrialized economies inability to provide a healthy economy. And the consolidations creating megacorps through the fabricated boom and busts of our economy are just good business.

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: dfnj2015

I like the economy, I think it's great!

It is for a select few. Mostly boomers though, as they had it much easier than genx or millenials.

Wage gap is higher than ever, home purchases are a higher portion of our income than ever before, and food, water, and electricity is a higher percentage of our income than my parents or their parents had at my age.

That is mostly because you have more people using those services then paying for them.

More people use roads and bridges then those who pay taxes for their maintenance.

More kids go to school then those who have parents who pay school tax

More people get free medical then those who pay for health insurance

originally posted by: SeaWorthy

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: Gargoyle91
a reply to: dfnj2015

At $100,000 living in Los Angeles I'm still pay check to pay check - Rent and taxes are killing me here in LA it costs me over $2000 a month just to go to work between gas, taxes and insurance So I agree .

If you aren't a Democrat, move to Missouri. You can actually afford to live and save money here if you are skilled.

They don't take Republicans in Missouri anymore?

I meant the reverse of that. Missouri has all branches and most local offices in the R column. Just the cores of STL and KC have dems running things.

originally posted by: Bloodworth

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: dfnj2015

I like the economy, I think it's great!

It is for a select few. Mostly boomers though, as they had it much easier than genx or millenials.

Wage gap is higher than ever, home purchases are a higher portion of our income than ever before, and food, water, and electricity is a higher percentage of our income than my parents or their parents had at my age.

That is mostly because you have more people using those services then paying for them.

More people use roads and bridges then those who pay taxes for their maintenance.

More kids go to school then those who have parents who pay school tax

More people get free medical then those who pay for health insurance

That’s because a huge percentage of the American working public’s wages have been driven so low that it precludes them from contributing the same way they used to. When you push wages down you’re canibalizing both your tax base and your consumer base. This model is the major fail of neoliberalism.

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: SeaWorthy

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: Gargoyle91
a reply to: dfnj2015

At $100,000 living in Los Angeles I'm still pay check to pay check - Rent and taxes are killing me here in LA it costs me over $2000 a month just to go to work between gas, taxes and insurance So I agree .

If you aren't a Democrat, move to Missouri. You can actually afford to live and save money here if you are skilled.

They don't take Republicans in Missouri anymore?

I meant the reverse of that. Missouri has all branches and most local offices in the R column. Just the cores of STL and KC have dems running things.

I was just joking around but thanks for responding.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Bloodworth

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: dfnj2015

I like the economy, I think it's great!

It is for a select few. Mostly boomers though, as they had it much easier than genx or millenials.

Wage gap is higher than ever, home purchases are a higher portion of our income than ever before, and food, water, and electricity is a higher percentage of our income than my parents or their parents had at my age.

That is mostly because you have more people using those services then paying for them.

More people use roads and bridges then those who pay taxes for their maintenance.

More kids go to school then those who have parents who pay school tax

More people get free medical then those who pay for health insurance

That’s because a huge percentage of the American working public’s wages have been driven so low that it precludes them from contributing the same way they used to. When you push wages down you’re canibalizing both your tax base and your consumer base. This model is the major fail of neoliberalism.

So glad you are here. You ar able to articulate my thoughts on these things much better than myself. I see the thing as a whole problem, and can break it down into portions, and point our problems, where you see it as a conglomerate as parts, and how each functions. Thank you for your contribution. More than anything I hope our discussion here will prompt more people to look into our problems.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Bloodworth

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: dfnj2015

I like the economy, I think it's great!

It is for a select few. Mostly boomers though, as they had it much easier than genx or millenials.

Wage gap is higher than ever, home purchases are a higher portion of our income than ever before, and food, water, and electricity is a higher percentage of our income than my parents or their parents had at my age.

That is mostly because you have more people using those services then paying for them.

More people use roads and bridges then those who pay taxes for their maintenance.

More kids go to school then those who have parents who pay school tax

More people get free medical then those who pay for health insurance

That’s because a huge percentage of the American working public’s wages have been driven so low that it precludes them from contributing the same way they used to. When you push wages down you’re canibalizing both your tax base and your consumer base. This model is the major fail of neoliberalism.

Seems people are more wealthy then ever and salaries the highest they have been.

People consider struggling today if the family only has 1 car instead of 2.
If they dont have the newest phone or accessories

Only 1 TV instead of 5

It's the gap between the ones who work and contribute to taxes to the ones who will never contribute a penny.

Since more are using today then contributing, the ones who contribute just have to pay more

originally posted by: Bloodworth

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Bloodworth

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: dfnj2015

I like the economy, I think it's great!

It is for a select few. Mostly boomers though, as they had it much easier than genx or millenials.

Wage gap is higher than ever, home purchases are a higher portion of our income than ever before, and food, water, and electricity is a higher percentage of our income than my parents or their parents had at my age.

That is mostly because you have more people using those services then paying for them.

More people use roads and bridges then those who pay taxes for their maintenance.

More kids go to school then those who have parents who pay school tax

More people get free medical then those who pay for health insurance

That’s because a huge percentage of the American working public’s wages have been driven so low that it precludes them from contributing the same way they used to. When you push wages down you’re canibalizing both your tax base and your consumer base. This model is the major fail of neoliberalism.

Seems people are more wealthy then ever and salaries the highest they have been.

People consider struggling today if the family only has 1 car instead of 2.
If they dont have the newest phone or accessories

Only 1 TV instead of 5

It's the gap between the ones who work and contribute to taxes to the ones who will never contribute a penny.

Since more are using today then contributing, the ones who contribute just have to pay more

Right. The us is wealthier than ever. And yet 50% of the working population makes less than $18 an hour. Let me repeat, the us makes more money than it ever has. It’s gdp has increased every year for the last 40 years. And yet during that time wages have stagnated. The working class got none of that increase. Their purchasing power has not budged. Half the country is getting by on poverty wages...... in the richest country in the world. Hence the lack of taxes you bemoan. Want more people paying taxes? Pay them more. Easy enough. Instead we tax labor the most, and capital gains the least. Give massive tax breaks to the wealthy, and offset it by cutting social spending on our already strapped working class. Nonsensical.

I have an observation and a question. In our area there are hiring signs everywhere appearing almost overnight. Very unusual. Does anyone know if some states are subsidizing labor? People in our area have stated that they believe there is a program where as the employer gets a subsidy if they can keep a new hire for 2 years. If they do, they get half the salary back. Reports of companies hiring while their sales and production are on the decline.

originally posted by: Bloodworth

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Bloodworth

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: dfnj2015

I like the economy, I think it's great!

It is for a select few. Mostly boomers though, as they had it much easier than genx or millenials.

Wage gap is higher than ever, home purchases are a higher portion of our income than ever before, and food, water, and electricity is a higher percentage of our income than my parents or their parents had at my age.

That is mostly because you have more people using those services then paying for them.

More people use roads and bridges then those who pay taxes for their maintenance.

More kids go to school then those who have parents who pay school tax

More people get free medical then those who pay for health insurance

That’s because a huge percentage of the American working public’s wages have been driven so low that it precludes them from contributing the same way they used to. When you push wages down you’re canibalizing both your tax base and your consumer base. This model is the major fail of neoliberalism.

Seems people are more wealthy then ever and salaries the highest they have been.

People consider struggling today if the family only has 1 car instead of 2.
If they dont have the newest phone or accessories

Only 1 TV instead of 5

It's the gap between the ones who work and contribute to taxes to the ones who will never contribute a penny.

Since more are using today then contributing, the ones who contribute just have to pay more

I understand that you have your imaginary view of how other people comport themselves. But every statistic says that appraisal misses the mark. You say salaries are higher than ever. True, but less americans are making salaries. The nation has deindustrialized, and middle class jobs have been replaced by an uberized gig economy with temp style jobs and few benefits. Sure, y’all like to think of people working multiple jobs to make ends meet, but working excessive hours at multiple minimum wage jobs will not put you much further ahead financially, and will most likely not even keep up with the added medical expenses from the stress, lack of sleep, etc.

I know you guys like to imagine that you are the hard workers in a nation of slackers, but this is not the case. You are not special, you are living in a fantasy world. Here, millionaires are made by nepotism, lottery, theft, and inheritance, and poverty is made by outsourcing, accidents, illness, lawsuits, etc. Congrats on your personal success! I’m successful too. But I know for a fact that it’s not because I work harder than all the other people making less than me. I’m handsome too! And I know that that, also, was a gift, and no particular fault of mine.

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: eXia7
Try starting your own business and present a quality service/product and I'm sure your economy won't suck.


I'm now running 2 businesses and they are both growing just fine. The main problem is finding qualified able bodied workers who aren't on drugs or living on the dole.

Again, economics 101. It takes principal to start a business.

Yeah, money most people could have if they wouldn't waste it, or could use their brain power for more than fakebook to try and earn a dollar.

Thats BS, you dont know everyone's situation, or how hard they work or anything. A lot of assumptions from you. My wife and I scrape by, and not from a lack of education, both have bachelors, and not from a lack of effort, we both work over 40hrs.

Look at current COLI for a family of 4, and maybe you can understand how there would be little left for investment principal into a business. My childcare and healthcare hills alone are more than the average american's total COL 20-30yrs ago.

Just a note, I started both businesses with very little capital.

a reply to: dfnj2015

yep, decades of liberal policies have caused massive inflation and devalued our dollar

It is because of all the online internet shopping has created massive amounts of retails job loss..Congress does not care and neither does President Trump.

The economy is doing "great" make America "great" again? Half the country is hooked on some kind of drug, living check to check or living in a tent but the economy is doing "great" for who? Yet we are being blackmailed by the corporations, pretty soon we will have to pay the Almighty corporations to stay here and provide us with jobs.... that is until they go automated, then what?

originally posted by: conspiracy nut
The economy is doing "great" make America "great" again? Half the country is hooked on some kind of drug, living check to check or living in a tent but the economy is doing "great" for who? Yet we are being blackmailed by the corporations, pretty soon we will have to pay the Almighty corporations to stay here and provide us with jobs.... that is until they go automated, then what?

America has some of the best technology, medicine, sports, food, and yes drugs.

So if you have access to these things, America is great for you.

You really have to travel around to realize how special the u.s. really is.
You forget about the small stuff .

Most who get a taste of America, just cannot return to where they came....its too cruel.

Probably why no one leaves after their Visa is up.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: SeaWorthy


I thought they meant gap between income and expense?

Actually meant more like;

In the 1950s, a typical CEO made 20 times the salary of his or her average worker. Last year, CEO pay at an S&P 500 Index firm soared to an average of 361 times more than the average rank-and-file worker, or pay of $13,940,000 a year, according to an AFL-CIO's Executive Paywatch news release today. May 22, 2018

But that goes hand in hand. The average american has less purchasing power with their wages, compared to almost anytime in history, and COL is higher than ever.

We live in the Corporatocracy of America now. Big business makes the rules, and tells you the numbers, and if you don't like it, there's the door, we will find someone to fill your shoes, or ship your job to (insert even lower avg wage country here).

The typical CEO today is running a much larger global enterprise than companies in the 50s.... CEO compensation is also more equity based with stock options. Few CEOs make $14 million in salary. CEO comp can vary wildly from year to year based on stock options. Most make salaries of $1 - $3 million. Stock does well an they get a huge windfall in a year.

So you dont call it a salary, call it total earnings from employment. You are arguing semantics.

The gross overpayment of these people is not justified by the size of the companies. By in large, when the companies grow like this, they also add jobs/titles to manage the increase in size. So yes, a pay increase is expected, but not the exorbitant packages they get today.

I come from corporate. I sold 55mil/yr in product, ran the state of TN by myself, for almost a decade. I know I was not paid my fair share (even 1% commish would be 550k), while my CFO and CEO made bank, for partying, and only working when absolutely neccessary.

Yes, some are over paid, but I can say that about any profession. CEO salaries are driven by competition and boards of directors/shareholders. If you don't like what a CEO makes, buy some shares in the company and vote against the boards authorizing their compensation packages.

Yea, totally feasible. When these companies have devalued our dollar so far, kinda hard to come up with investment principal.

These corps are making record high profit margins, have record high compensation packages, and then pay record low wages, and employee benefits. What world are you living in?

I think from their posts that they recognize the trend of income inequality over time becoming more extravagant, and like anyone, they can extrapolate the end result of it continuing until a tiny percentage of the population actually owns everything, and everyone else has nothing but debt. But they just don’t care because they assume they and possibly their progeny, will be among the privileged few, or getting the poverty they deserve because they just didn’t work hard enough. Which is apparently ok with them.

I think you're onto something there.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Bloodworth

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Bloodworth

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: dfnj2015

I like the economy, I think it's great!

It is for a select few. Mostly boomers though, as they had it much easier than genx or millenials.

Wage gap is higher than ever, home purchases are a higher portion of our income than ever before, and food, water, and electricity is a higher percentage of our income than my parents or their parents had at my age.

That is mostly because you have more people using those services then paying for them.

More people use roads and bridges then those who pay taxes for their maintenance.

More kids go to school then those who have parents who pay school tax

More people get free medical then those who pay for health insurance

That’s because a huge percentage of the American working public’s wages have been driven so low that it precludes them from contributing the same way they used to. When you push wages down you’re canibalizing both your tax base and your consumer base. This model is the major fail of neoliberalism.

Seems people are more wealthy then ever and salaries the highest they have been.

People consider struggling today if the family only has 1 car instead of 2.
If they dont have the newest phone or accessories

Only 1 TV instead of 5

It's the gap between the ones who work and contribute to taxes to the ones who will never contribute a penny.

Since more are using today then contributing, the ones who contribute just have to pay more

I understand that you have your imaginary view of how other people comport themselves. But every statistic says that appraisal misses the mark. You say salaries are higher than ever. True, but less americans are making salaries. The nation has deindustrialized, and middle class jobs have been replaced by an uberized gig economy with temp style jobs and few benefits. Sure, y’all like to think of people working multiple jobs to make ends meet, but working excessive hours at multiple minimum wage jobs will not put you much further ahead financially, and will most likely not even keep up with the added medical expenses from the stress, lack of sleep, etc.

I know you guys like to imagine that you are the hard workers in a nation of slackers, but this is not the case. You are not special, you are living in a fantasy world. Here, millionaires are made by nepotism, lottery, theft, and inheritance, and poverty is made by outsourcing, accidents, illness, lawsuits, etc. Congrats on your personal success! I’m successful too. But I know for a fact that it’s not because I work harder than all the other people making less than me. I’m handsome too! And I know that that, also, was a gift, and no particular fault of mine.

Success is built on the person...if you gave everyone 50,000 dollars. Some will use it wisely and grow their wealth...

Some will fail

And In the real world. Some do well and some dont.

Doesnt mean millionaires are made by lottery and theft. You have to be very smart.

And like when trump was bashed when they say his father gave him money to start a new.

Not many people when given money can still find success and make a profit.

Actually most fail

It's harder then most think to generate income, even when you have it..

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: butcherguy

I was still in school in the seventies. My parents would not let me get a job except for babysitting on weekends.
My mother only had a part time job and that was because she wanted to occupy her time since us kids were teens and gaining independence.
Our livelihood was provided by my fathers income. And he worked two jobs to feed four kids and maintain a ten room house on long island.
If there were any hard times I do not know about it. If they struggled I do not know about that.
We went out to dinner at least once a week because Dad loved those fried clams at Howard Johnson's restaurant. Who remembers their all you can eat menu? Fridays was fish. Flounder or clams and mountains of french fries.
And a butterscotch sunday for dessert.

What a great dad and father figure you had.

A real provider.

Kind regards,

bally