Eternal damnation how bad can it be

a reply to: EasternShadow

Isaiah 41:14

14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

I understand that you still don't get how the LORD and His redeemer are ONE or how God/Jesus make up the "First and the Last", the "Alpha and Omega", or the "Beginning and the End". Like I said, the Jews didn't get it either, but all of you will someday.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: EasternShadow
John 8:19

19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
.

Notice how Jesus keep associating himself with "my Father?" That because Jesus is glorifying his Father. Two person involve here.

Now read Isaiah again.
Notice How God never associating Himself with other person in His Dialogue? That because there is no other person beside and above Him and He never glorifies anyone as oppose to Jesus.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: EasternShadow

Isaiah 41:14

14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

I understand that you still don't get how the LORD and His redeemer are ONE or how God/Jesus make up the "First and the Last", the "Alpha and Omega", or the "Beginning and the End". Like I said, the Jews didn't get it either, but all of you will someday.

Again read carefully how God talks.

He does not said " or my father, and my father whatsoever". As I said, God doesn't glorify anyone. Jesus however did.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Jesus IS the glory of God.

Revelation 21:

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: EasternShadow

Jesus IS the glory of God.

Jesus did not glorified himself.

John 8:54
"If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing.."

Everything He does was for His Father, "I can do nothing on my own." John 5:30

God does not glorified anyone.

“I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to anyone else, nor share my praise with carved idols." Isaiah 42:8

originally posted by: Deetermined
Revelation 22:

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

John's words. Not Jesus.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Let the context of John 8 sink in...

14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: EasternShadow

Let the context of John 8 sink in...

14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

"I am not alone". That is Two men reference. Not One. Jesus is clearly not "the Father that send me". What did God says again? There is only One God.

originally posted by: Deetermined
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me."

Again typical Jesus sayings with, "and the Father that sent me." Now why on earth God tries so hard to distinct Himself from His other what? Person? Does it make sense to you?

originally posted by: Deetermined
19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

Doesn't mean He is the One God as you wish.

originally posted by: Deetermined
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

So what? There are others not of this world too. Refer to Genesis.

originally posted by: Deetermined
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

What he said from the beginning was, he was not alone, he was sent by his father to give one of the TWO testimonials which he clearly stated there are TWO men.

Since He is not "the father who sent me", then He is not God.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Let me put this in simpler terms for you.

Do you have a body, soul and spirit?

Are any of them separate from you?

Neither are God and Jesus separate from each other. That's why Jesus says that Him and the Father are One.

John 10:30

30 I and my Father are one.

Hear O' Israel, the LORD our God is One.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: EasternShadow

Let me put this in simpler terms for you.

Do you have a body, soul and spirit?

I don't mix up my body, my soul and my spirit, as the same thing as you do.

originally posted by: Deetermined
Are any of them separate from you?

They are separeted by their own distinctions. No one identified me as my body or my soul or my spirit. I am who I am.

originally posted by: Deetermined
Neither are God and Jesus separate from each other. That's why Jesus says that Him and the Father are One.

John 10:30

30 I and my Father are one.

Hear O' Israel, the LORD our God is One.

One on that context does not mean He is the Father, because He is not. He is the son. Again I don't mix up my body, my soul and my spirit as the same thing. They are not.

a reply to: EasternShadow

They are separeted by their own distinctions. No one identified me as my body or my soul or my spirit. I am who I am.

God/Jesus IS "I AM". Go read the last part of John 8 again.

God's is primarily the soul, but he needs His body (Jesus) and His Spirit (Holy Spirit) to speak to us and He created the world and us THROUGH Jesus. Jesus is the physical manifestation of God.

John 1:1-3, 10-11

1 In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Just remember, we are created in the image of God, but we are not God.

If God wants to give his body and spirit their own names, He can and He will.

If He wanted to split himself into a billion atoms, I'm sure He could do that too, considering that we know His spirit has the ability to live in all of us and He knows every intimate detail of our lives and our thoughts.

a reply to: Raggedyman

He also said he did not come to do away with the law. Get rid of your ignorance and become aware that grace without works is not enough, also written there btw.


Jaden

a reply to: Raggedyman

Wrong the only unforgivable sin is to blaspheme the holy spirit.

You can blaspheme the father and you will be forgiven, you can blaspheme the son and you will be forgiven, if you blaspheme the holy spirit, you will never be forgiven

Jaden

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Raggedyman

Wrong the only unforgivable sin is to blaspheme the holy spirit.

You can blaspheme the father and you will be forgiven, you can blaspheme the son and you will be forgiven, if you blaspheme the holy spirit, you will never be forgiven

Jaden

Really, really
So Jesus the Father and the Spirit are all one the but it’s ok to “blaspheme” two of the Godhead but not the Spirit, how does that work?
I don’t see your logic
Please explain it to me

Forgiveness comes through Jesus, deny Him and you deny the Spirit working in you, that’s the blasphemy as I understand

Believe what you want, but don’t think your opinion has any validation without backing it up with scripture

And what is blasphemy of the Spirit, what does a person have to do

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in the near term, but glory and happiness in the long run, because God will become All in all.
a reply to: Lazarus Short

I do not find any scripture that states there is a way in to the presence of God from the wailing and nashing of teeth that ocures in the realm of the outer darkness out of the presence of God. Could you give me a scripture reference for your statement?

a reply to: PhilbertDezineck

There is no way into the presence.... because there is no way out.

The way, the truth, the one life; is ever present....... but thought makes believe there is something else.

What is appearing as colour and sound is immediate... this is God's dream.

But when thought (the serpent) speaks presently it produces the illusion that there is life outside of what is happening.

You are damned when you live in time.

The gap between now (presence) and an imagined other time is fear.

The peace that is longed for is never not present...... but can be missed and denied because the attention is full of time.

originally posted by: PhilbertDezineck
There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in the near term, but glory and happiness in the long run, because God will become All in all.
a reply to: Lazarus Short

I do not find any scripture that states there is a way in to the presence of God from the wailing and nashing of teeth that ocures in the realm of the outer darkness out of the presence of God. Could you give me a scripture reference for your statement?

It's simply a matter of putting it all together...perhaps with a leap of faith. We all know of the judgments in the Revelation, how some are tossed into the Lake of Fire, and yes it seems rather final. Death everywhere: Revelation 19:21, 20:9, 20:15. But it gets a bit confusing, as we see stated in Rev. 21:4 "...there shall be no more death." In verse 8, however, we see a list of the wicked who are relegated to the LoF, again called the second death. Almost lastly, in 22:15, we see that those wicked are still outside the Holy City. Is that really the end? No, for we are shown in First Corinthians 15:26 that Death is the last enemy to be destroyed, as mentioned in Rev. 21:4. Further, we are told that the Son will turn the Kingdom over to the Father, Who will then be All in all (verse 28). I conclude from all this that if Death is destroyed, no one can remain dead, and if God is All in all, then all are saved, redeemed, reconciled. The process is not exactly specified, thus my leap of faith comment, but I note that fire and sulfur/brimstone are purifying agents. So...you must ask yourself if the Lake of Fire is for punishment/destruction or for purification. If God is to become All in all, then it must be the latter, Hell theology to the contrary notwithstanding.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

I conclude from all this that if Death is destroyed, no one can remain dead, and if God is All in all, then all are saved, redeemed, reconciled. The process is not exactly specified, thus my leap of faith comment, but I note that fire and sulfur/brimstone are purifying agents. So...you must ask yourself if the Lake of Fire is for punishment/destruction or for purification.

If that were the case, what would be the point of "The Book of Life"?

Based on what's written in the Bible, I think the most you can hope for is that the first death is the death of the body and the second death is the death of the soul that is destroyed in the Lake of Fire after judgement.

The Bible tells us a couple of times not to fear the ones who can destroy the body, but the one who can destroy the soul.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Lazarus Short

I conclude from all this that if Death is destroyed, no one can remain dead, and if God is All in all, then all are saved, redeemed, reconciled. The process is not exactly specified, thus my leap of faith comment, but I note that fire and sulfur/brimstone are purifying agents. So...you must ask yourself if the Lake of Fire is for punishment/destruction or for purification.

If that were the case, what would be the point of "The Book of Life"?

Based on what's written in the Bible, I think the most you can hope for is that the first death is the death of the body and the second death is the death of the soul that is destroyed in the Lake of Fire after judgment.

The Bible tells us a couple of times not to fear the ones who can destroy the body, but the one who can destroy the soul.

If your name is written in the Book of Life, then you get a free pass. Others...not so much - they must be purified in the Lake of Fire until their personal chaff, tares, wood, hay and stubble are burned away. Then, as we read in First Corinthians 3:15, they too will be saved. Perhaps souls are destroyed in the LoF, but in the end Jesus boasts that He has made ALL things new.

You are damned if you do and damned if you don't!!

Maybe the belief in a doer is what constitutes eternal damnation.

The I is all seeing..... not doing.