Boris Jonson Elected as New Prime Minister of The UK.

a reply to: TheShippingForecast

I would vouch for Freeborn , he isnt the only one to state that the highlands and islands may seek independence from Scotland should we leave the UK , many members have said this .
I cant help but feel how you feel that it was only a reaction to us leaving the UK and like , well if you leave they will leave and then the oil is off the table.
So dont bother pushing indy or your oil will go as well

However that arguement over the oil fields and the money put into to develop it , you also forget that the processing of the crude oil into usable products has been done in Grangemouth for nearly 50 years or more by BP
and many other sites around the central belt area where oil is turned into useable products and then shipped or transported across the UK and world

The Islands dont have that processing facility , so how would they go about using the oil fields to turn a profit from the oil ?
they too would suffer at the outset having to then offset this production loss ?

Most of the processing plants are on the mainland
they would end up just selling of the fields for money .

However it is highly unlikely that would happen

a reply to: Silure

CornishCeltGuy only made an impression only in the sense that he was rabidly anti-Scottish, an attention seeker, had anger issues. Life for him was also great, despite being down on his luck, always telling us to quit whinging and how awful Scotland must be. Stranger too, he also had a habit of making multiple edits to his posts. The oddest trait he had was being all friendly friendly one minute, have a pint mate n that we’re all friends here, then completely going off on one. Genuinely weird character, the type of guy you’d swerve on your way to the bar.

You’ll be familiar with all that, no doubt. I’m surprised you exercised so much restraint as a viewer of the forum, not registering on ATS earlier to join the debate with him.

Eh, I haven’t made any comment on your own benefits and situation so I won’t be drawn into that. Some people play the system, no doubt, but you don’t have any special insight that way. I’m sure most of us are familiar with those who swing the lead.

a reply to: TheShippingForecast

mate you have done a truly wonderful thing by helping that lad out !

its #in horrific to think, he is one you have saved , but how many go under the radar or fall short of the "requirements"
then where the # do they turn ?

I myself am raging at the things I know about the inner workings of homeless life in scotland
the charities that take and take and make millions yet dont provide actual meals to homeless , its all for political point scoring and making up the numbers for quotas etc

Where is the justice for these people , we have just abandoned them , the government that is supposed to support them , just doesnt work , Universal credit , was probably the worst scheme ever in UK history .

We need to sack all government , its pointless absolutely pointless

a reply to: Freeborn

I don’t doubt that some in the Western Isles, Orkney and Shetland feel as detached from Holyrood as they are from Westminster. I don’t think independence would be a good fit, an Isle or Man or Gibraltar type solution might work better for them. But it would be their call. I wouldn’t deny them their own referendum on their constitutional status, if that’s what they want. As with Scotland, though, the oil money will run out eventually, that would be a big consideration for them as it is for the rest of Scotland. Not that there’s any serious movement for them to break away. It’s just pub talk. But you never know, from small acorns large oak trees grow.

But I genuinely don’t think you have any particular interest in those islands and their future. You’re just throwing a spanner in the works of Scottish independence, for the sake of an argument here, arguing to deny Holyrood what’s left of the oil revenue, making people less certain about voting in favour of independence.

I kinda come to the position that it’s for the Scots to determine their own future ? Whether they be dewy eyed romanticists, hard nosed pragmatists or just ordinary folk trying to make sense of it all. For every Rob Roy type character up here ... and there are quite a few ... I’m sure down south they’ve got ten English equivalents, draped in the Union Jack and harking back to the days when the atlas was mainly pink and when sending a gunboat cured all our foreign troubles. Brexiteers to a man, I guess.

a reply to: Silure

Neither am i suppose, supprised that is, i if your happy with the government, austerity, and canny see further than the rose-coloured spectacles on your puss.

Most of the people who voted are over 50 if we are honest.

I'm in my own tribe these days, its the only way to travel you see.

I'm not scared of anything other than peoples own stupidity to place their faith in nefarious bastards out to line there own pockets aka the politicians of this world.

A truly independent Scotland eh? Ile believe that when i see it, and i certainly hope i do, still want her to be part of the EU all the same for obvious reasons.

My view is my own, but not hardly one that's not shared by others, hence the fact that Scotland and Ireland did not vote to leave.

The only person i see attempting to bull# me is yourself unfortunately with your spurious assumptions.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Silure

Neither am i suppose, supprised that is, i if your happy with the government, austerity, and canny see further than the rose-coloured spectacles on your puss.

Most of the people who voted are over 50 if we are honest.

Why is it that everyone here , and everyone in the UK and USA etc, why

originally posted by: sapien82

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Silure

Neither am i suppose, supprised that is, i if your happy with the government, austerity, and canny see further than the rose-coloured spectacles on your puss.

Most of the people who voted are over 50 if we are honest.

Why is it that everyone here , and everyone in the UK and USA etc, why

a reply to: sapien82

Disillusion i suppose.

The younger generation don't think there vote counts for anything.

They are absolutely correct in a lot of ways i suppose.

Possibly a lot of people simply don't care to vote until they are older just down to the way they perceive politics and the world in general.

a reply to: TheShippingForecast

What you have done helping that chap is fantastic but i do think you are being rather disingenuous about Universal Credits in that you are appearing to suggest everything was rosy beforehand.

The old benefits system also regularly screwed people over. Universal credits, whilst not impossible, is far harder to scam and linking it in to other things like Jobseekers means people actually have to properly look for work, not just go through the motions of pretending to look for work. Under the old system, that did happen a lot whatever anyone claims - it was simple to take a couple of numbers or adverts and use that as proof of an active job search.

For sure Universal Credits need improvements but our entire benefits system needed an overhaul. Too many people think the state owes them a living. I want the benefits system to work for the truly needy in society, not for those that can't be arsed to find proper employment. If you don't want to work, that is your choice. Not paying you for that choice should be the choice that society makes. Or to put it another way, if someone chooses not to work then it should be up to me whether my tax money supports that choice or not. And i choose not.

If, on the other hand, you (metaphorical you, not you personally!) physically can't work due to illness, childcare, etc, then i have no issue with my tax money going to support you.

I will probably get flamed for this but i am also glad they have cracked down on the old "have a kid get a council flat" thing. Society should support the needy, not the feckless, workshy layabouts that got away with it for so long under successive Tory and Labour governments.

a reply to: sapien82

I don’t damn Universal Credit completely. It’s good that they’ve moved to an online system, to make an application and to maintain contact with the adviser and benefits staff. I’ve read some other websites. UC is seemingly more generous a system for those on zero hours and part time contracts, it’s better for people with nursery fees. But it’s less responsive when claimants don’t meet the fit, if they don’t have internet access or IT skills, or if they’ve got serious health problems. That plus it’s still tied in with medical assessments and the private sector provider which so regularly determines that ill people are fit to work. And, shamefully, for claimants on UC and the older benefits, many haven’t seen their April increase for quite a number of years now despite food and utility prices rising so quickly.

I don’t that we saved him, as such. Just that listening, a little bit of empathy over a cuppa tea can make quite a difference. Life’s a long game, innit. He’ll come out good. It’s shocking how the system can still let down younger, vulnerable people despite all the resources thrown into homelessness issues.

a reply to: Flavian

Cross posted, unfortunately,
I was addressing the UC/older benefits issue as you made your contribution.

a reply to: TheShippingForecast

You make far too many assumptions about me most of which are way wide of the mark.

Scotland will do as Scotland see's fit, which is as it should be.

Come the time of any IndyRef2 I'm absolutely certain I'll share my thoughts with people then.

As it stands I'm certain that there are members on here who've discussed matters with me at length and are more than aware of my current opinions - unlike many my opinions whilst being passionately held are not necessarily set in stone and sometimes evolve and change with time and in accordance with events.

And I never argue just for the sake of arguing.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: TheShippingForecast

And I never argue just for the sake of arguing.

(alltogether now) Oh yes you do.......



......i'll get my coat........

a reply to: TheShippingForecast

Fair enough, just read that.

a reply to: Flavian

As usual you make strong counter arguments but what you, and the vast majority of people, fail to recognise and acknowledge is that the reason so many people fall into the benefit lifestyle is simply because many people were forced into it as a direct result of government(s) policies and incompetence.

In certain areas of the UK a whole generation of people were cast aside and there was literally no option but to go on benefits.
That is an undeniable fact.
Now that generation has grown up and had children.
Many of those children know nothing else or the alternative options are equally uninviting; minimum wage, zero hour contracts blah blah blah.

Of course the benefit system gets abused by some and is seen as a lifestyle option by far too many and that has to be stopped and changed.
But the victimisation and stigmatisation of all benefit recipients by the current Tory administration has been truly abhorrent and has been driven more by political ideology than it has by financial or economic necessity....and that is unforgiveable.

a reply to: Freeborn

What i fail to understand is why our beloved gooberment choose to go after the poor sods and idiots that are essentially milking the system for peanuts whilst the real bastards at the scam are pocketing billions from unpaid tax or evasion?

Then again they are the same people who own the system and they canny be shooting themselves in the foot, not whilst there are still poor people to be persecuted.

Got to wonder which demographic is next after they are finished with the poor?

Or how "they" will even exist without poor people to facilitate there needs and desires.

a reply to: andy06shake

I cant figure that out either, dont you need poor people to work and produce taxes?

surely killing of your employees is a bad thing.

Aye Google

where the # are your taxes ?
our collective tax i a drop in the ocean compared to google

Well I still support Scottish independence if the people want it, but if it meant adopting the Euro and becoming subservient to the other 26 countries left in it, nope, that wouldn't seem independent to me.
I voted remain and lost, but if we're gonna leave then I embrace real independence, certainly not vassal nation status under that awful 'agreement' which May took while leaning over a barrel.

a reply to: Freeborn

The only assumptions I make are that you wish the U.K. to remain as present, that you don’t wish Scotland to be independent and that you have no interest in the Northern Isles other than as an anti Scottish independence debating point.

Had the internet and ATS been available in the 1920’s, you’d be seen here arguing against independence for Ireland, India and all the rest. Because it’s the same basic issue : the right to determine your own future for yourself.

You do your argument no favours by constantly reminding us about the down side of independence, of troubles that might come our way following a successful Yes vote. The Scottish contributors here are acutely aware of the risks that independence may bring. We’ll have to weigh the advantages against those risks when we make our decision.

There are very many advantages to independence. Try putting yourself in someone else’s shoes for a minute. Have a think about the pluses which might be available. And imagine yourself not as who you are and where you come from, but as a Scot instead.

This internet discourse we have, sure it’s all about talking to others from home and abroad, learning about each other, debating and such like. It whiles away a few hours.

But it’s also about reflecting on what others think, considering where they’re coming from, thinking about the influences they’re subject to and such like.

Here’s a challenge.

Flip sides, locations. Pretend that you’re a Scot and living up here. Tell us what you think the advantages of Scottish independence might be. And, disregarding who you really are and where you’re from, tell us whether you might be not be tempted to take a chance. Imagine the younger, more idealistic version of you, instead as Scottish. For it’s the younger people who have the most enthusiasm for independence.

That’s why I mentioned in an earlier contribution about the cultural change which is going on up here, with younger people especially. Try it. I’m playing devils advocate, tell us about the benefits of independence.

a reply to: sapien82

Well, apparently there is a load of monies in ""offshore accounts"".

Trillions of ££££ and $$$$ to be precise.

"They" must be keeping that for something.

Thing is though without poor people, money is rather pointless in excessive amounts, for a start there is nobody to lord over with the stuff.

It is a riddle, wrapped in mystery, inside an enigma i suppose.

Whos next is the real question?

Probably just create a new breed of poor to be honest, willing to accept a hell of a lot less.