NEWS: London mayor: Sharon is a war criminal

Hey, since when did Britain try to cross Ralph Nader and Jesse Ventura and maeke a mayor out of the resulting clone?

Guy probably thinks Arafat was the reincarnation of Ghandi, too.

Better start kissing the Muslim behind, since they're making themselves powerful in Europe. Start sounding like "their" representative so you can get a few more votes for your side.

Funny how a few dozen ramdom Israeli schoolchildren get killed by a palestinian bomber, and it's "a bad thing". Sharon fires a missile directly at where one of these thugs lives, while he's hiding behind civilians, and there's a death toll of 5 or 6, and it's the more evil act?

Sharon is dangerous, a product of the politics created by Arafat's mafia. He would never have made it into office if the PLO had actually been seeking real, lasting, and equitable peace. He needs to go, to match the heroic moderation of the PLO leadership today. But to spew mindless, ass kissing rhetoric such as he did, should not be tolerated by one of political power or status.

On a similar note, does anyone here believe Bush would have been re-elected had not one of the power mad "extremist" muslim leaders not notched up the scale of violence against America? Had not the culture of extremist Islam created thugs who needed to maintain status and power through bigger and mastier activities, not only would Bush have not been re-elected, but the Democrats would have chosen a much better candidate instead of trying to capitalize on war records and security issues. But the London Mayor sure isn't going to point that out...might offend his future voting base.

Originally posted by Phugedaboudet
Sharon is dangerous, a product of the politics created by Arafat's mafia. He would never have made it into office if the PLO had actually been seeking real, lasting, and equitable peace. He needs to go, to match the heroic moderation of the PLO leadership today. But to spew mindless, ass kissing rhetoric such as he did, should not be tolerated by one of political power or status.

He is not a product of the PLO, he was committing terrorist acts long before the PLO.

www.counterpunch.org...

Sharon's first documented sortie in this role was in August of 1953 on the refugee camp of El-Bureig, south of Gaza. An Israeli history of the 101 unit records 50 refugees as having been killed; other sources allege 15 or 20. Major-General Vagn Bennike, the UN commander, reported that "bombs were thrown" by Sharon's men "through the windows of huts in which the refugees were sleeping and, as they fled, they were attacked by small arms and automatic weapons".

In October of 1953 came the attack by Sharon's unit 101 on the Jordanian village of Qibya, whose "stain" Israel's foreign minister at the time, Moshe Sharett, confided to his diary "would stick to us and not be washed away for many years". He was wrong. Though even strongly pro-Israel commentators in the West compared it to Lidice, Qibya and Sharon's role are scarcely evoked in the West today, least of all by journalists such as Deborah Sontag of the New York Times who recently wrote a whitewash of Sharon, describing him as "feisty", or the
Washington Post's man in Jerusalem who fondly invoked him after his fateful excursion to the Holy Places in Jerusalem as "the portly old warrior".

[edit on 4-3-2005 by AceOfBase]

And this far left "battle of Seattle"-crowing website is a reliable source" As someone who was there for that self-aggrandizing fiasco, I have serious credibility issues with some website making a big deal about it.

I'm sure there are plenty of folks who sudenly had evil stories about him, much like Kerry had when his attempt for power came up.(such an evil "game", politics) Nor do I attribute much to quotes from journals, with as much context left out as possible. Especially when assembled by a self-proclaimed "muckraking" website.

Again, if you read my post, I said Sharon would never have succeeded to power in Israel without Arafat's need to maintian his power base through constant fear and terror. Sharon is dangerous, I also said. maybe the muckraking is true. But Arafat created a climate where an Israeli moderate, or even more than moderate *could not survive* because of constant backstabbings and sabotage of any peace attempt. The Israeli people had no reason to trust Arafat, and he made sure to give them reasons to continue their mistrust. Therefore, they desired a leader that could stand toe to toe with Arafat's unreasoning hatred and personal greed. Fighting fire with fire.
Now Arafat is gone. Sharon wasn't elected to make peace. Now he needs to go.

To understand Arafat, understand "his" people. Not the ones on the liberal show circuits, not the rich, affluent Palestinians who travelled to the US on fundraisers to supply billions of dollars in personal accounts that Arafat'd wife is now enjoying. Talk to the children who fled in the dark. Who came to the US because they fled the camps, and the cities where the PLO reigned supreme, whose parent's didn't "kiss the ring" and were persecuted by their neighbors for speaking of moderation with Israel. Get to know a few. Work with them, go to school with them. You recognize them by the fact they don't advertise as being Palestinian and make a big deal of it. You find out by befriending them over time. You learn things. Scary things the Media and the Left *and* Right don't want you to think about.

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by Phugedaboudet
Sharon is dangerous, a product of the politics created by Arafat's mafia. He would never have made it into office if the PLO had actually been seeking real, lasting, and equitable peace. He needs to go, to match the heroic moderation of the PLO leadership today. But to spew mindless, ass kissing rhetoric such as he did, should not be tolerated by one of political power or status.

He is not a product of the PLO, he was committing terrorist acts long before the PLO.

www.counterpunch.org...

Sharon's first documented sortie in this role was in August of 1953 on the refugee camp of El-Bureig, south of Gaza. An Israeli history of the 101 unit records 50 refugees as having been killed; other sources allege 15 or 20. Major-General Vagn Bennike, the UN commander, reported that "bombs were thrown" by Sharon's men "through the windows of huts in which the refugees were sleeping and, as they fled, they were attacked by small arms and automatic weapons".

In October of 1953 came the attack by Sharon's unit 101 on the Jordanian village of Qibya, whose "stain" Israel's foreign minister at the time, Moshe Sharett, confided to his diary "would stick to us and not be washed away for many years". He was wrong. Though even strongly pro-Israel commentators in the West compared it to Lidice, Qibya and Sharon's role are scarcely evoked in the West today, least of all by journalists such as Deborah Sontag of the New York Times who recently wrote a whitewash of Sharon, describing him as "feisty", or the
Washington Post's man in Jerusalem who fondly invoked him after his fateful excursion to the Holy Places in Jerusalem as "the portly old warrior".

[edit on 4-3-2005 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by Phugedaboudet
And this far left "battle of Seattle"-crowing website is a reliable source" As someone who was there for that self-aggrandizing fiasco, I have serious credibility issues with some website making a big deal about it.

You're right, that was a bad site.

How about the website of the Israeli government?

mfa.gov.il

Ariel ('Arik') Sharon was born in 1928 in Kfar Malal. He served in the IDF for more than 25 years, retiring with the rank of Major-General. He holds an LL.B in Law from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem (1962).

Sharon joined the Haganah at the age of 14. During the 1948 War of Independence, he commanded an infantry company in the Alexandroni Brigade. In 1953, he founded and led the "101" special commando unit which carried out retaliatory operations. Sharon was appointed commander of a paratroop brigade in 1956 and fought in the Sinai Campaign. In 1957 he attended the Camberley Staff College in Great Britain.

Here's a CBC piece on him:

CBC: Sharon Timeline
Oct. 14, 1953: More than 60 Jordanian civilians are killed in an attack on the village of Qibya located in the West Bank. Sharon and his Unit 101 are condemned for the extent of casualties. Later investigation finds that the order for the attack came from one of Sharon's superiors. Unit 101 is merged with a brigade of paratroopers....

....1981-1983: Sharon serves as Begin's minister of defence. In 1982, Israel invades Lebanon in a strike that results in the expulsion of the Palestine Liberation Organization. Several hundred Palestinians living in two Beirut refugee camps are killed in raids carried out by a Lebanese-Christian militia allied to Israel. A committee investigating the massacre recommends the removal of Sharon as minister of defence for reasons of negligence. Sharon is dismissed by Begin but maintains his Knesset position in the governments that follow.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Expected as much. Thanks guys and gals.

bwahaha! Man Seekerof, that was the most pathetic attempt ever! I saw your "Anti-Semetism on rise" remark, knew you were fishing for me to question it ( I've never seen anything so obvious )so you could provide the link you've been sitting on and dying to unleash since this thread started, so didn't respond...yet you acted like I did respond anyway. That must've pissed you off.

Strange really, when I asked you two fairly straight forward questions that you decided not to reply to which were:

I'd love to know why you'd think his comments about Sharon are either out of hand or lessons forgotten?

and...

And again I would like to know what problems you have with the remarks he made about Sharon, why is he wrong?

hehe, I'm still laughing my arse off about how you set up that statement hoping for me to question it which I didn't, but you acted like I did anyway!
Jesus man! That was desperate!

If you could answer those questions for me that'd be great. Cheers mate.

[edit on 4-3-2005 by John Nada]

This allegation is beyond irresponsible. Sharon is doing his best to facilitate peace, even to the extent of demanding that hard line orthodox Jews evacuate disputed lands and having been threatened with assassination.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
This allegation is beyond irresponsible. Sharon is doing his best to facilitate peace, even to the extent of demanding that hard line orthodox Jews evacuate disputed lands and having been threatened with assassination.

The settlements withdrawn from Gaza are only the tip of the iceberg.

Most of it are in the West Bank.

Yeah that's true in a way. I mean how often does a British MP get called anti-angle for critizing Bush's policies? Maybe a Chinese leader would get called anti-angle for doing that though. Which i see as a problem because it's playing the race card to avoid criticism. You shouldn't have to be of the same race as someone to be able to disagree with what they are doing without being called a racist. In other news, polls show that Taiwan is anti-asian because they don't like the Chinese government


[edit on 5-3-2005 by Trent]

Livingstone not only seriously abused the memories of all those Jews who survived the concentration camps, but also the British troops who died fighting the Nazis and their families.

....And the Mayor's comments on Sharon aren't even worthy of an Israeli response.

How did he sully the memory of any one when he called him a "concentration camp guard"? Thats got me beat.

If he came out and said "The holocaust never happend" or "the Jews had it coming" or "Hitler was the last great leader" or something ridiculous like that then you could say that.

Why do PC gurus get their knickers in a twist when ever hot button words like "Jewish" or "NAZI" are even mentioned? Is it too much to ask to look at context and intent before condemning someone first?

Phugedaboudet, how can you accept Sharons actions? He is part of a Government and doesnt have the liberty of acting like a terrorist.

That being said Ive come to realise that Livingstones factually correct swipe at Sharon are mistimed. Nothing should be done to scupper the current peace progress.

I've asked two fairly straight forward questions and no one can seem to answer them, especially Seekerof who likes to insinuate Anti-Semetism on my part but yet can't back up why Livingstone is wrong.

I doubt they'll ever be answered and that to me speaks volumes.

This thread to me is dead until such is done, goodnight ladies.

Lesson Of The Day:

Don't criticise Jewish policies, that means you hate Jews. Everytime I see a Jew I spit on the floor and pray for the return of Hitler. I don't like Israeli policies so that means I hate Jews, and I wont rest until the return of Nazism is in full effect and we can kill them all.

Get a grip Seekerof and cronies.

[edit on 5-3-2005 by John Nada]

Nooo way Sharon a war criminal... now thats news..

In his article in the Guardian Livingstone says there is no comparison possible between Jews and Nazis.. hang on there are some striking similarities:

Aren't the Jews also very keen on their bloodlines? Tracing themselves back to the 12 tribes... if you are a convert to judeaism you are part of the "lesser tribe". Now this all sounds very eugenic to me.

Also they view themselves as the chosen of god.. while having derrogatory terms for non-believers. Very elitist no?

Also in their view of palestinians is distorted as they dont recognize "palestine" as a legitimate country.. so how can you recgognize people coming from this county that doesnt exist? This surely affects the trestment of the people as they must surely be seen as gypsies who come to steal land from biblical israel.

Obviously to drew attention to these similarities is a touchy subject due to history but nevertheless saying there is no comparison possible is wrong imo.

Originally posted by Corinthas
if you are a convert to judeaism you are part of the "lesser tribe".

That is absolute wrong. Just think of a very prominet person who converted to jusadism:

Ruth of the moabits, the great-grandmother of David and the Messiah to come.

Originally posted by Corinthas

Also in their view of palestinians is distorted as they dont recognize "palestine" as a legitimate country..

Everybody knows:
There never was a Palestinian state or a Palestinian nation. .....

Check out any map of the Middle East and see for yourself. You will find Palestine listed as a region as it always has been, but definitely not a country.



Rebekka

Originally posted by Riwka

That is absolute wrong.

How can you be part of a tribe by convertion alone... you are only part of one of the 12 by birth surely. Unless you are given a place in a tribe... but from what i understand there is a name for people outside of the 12 main tribes.

That is interesting....

You mean King David was and the Massiach Jews are waiting for are somehow " second class jews" ............since Ruth has been not a born JEw buct a Ger Zedek?!?

(A Ger Zedek ("righteous convert") is a gentile, who has undergone gijur ("religious conversion according to halacha" ("jewish law") to Judaism to become completely Torah-observant.


Rebekka

Originally posted by AceOfBase

You're right, that was a bad site.

How about the website of the Israeli government?

mfa.gov.il

Did you find anything bad on the MFA- site?

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Here's a CBC piece on him:

Oct. 14, 1953:


....1981-1983:.

And this is ( NO Israeli Website) palestinefacts.org: Is Ariel Sharon a war criminal?

1953: The Raid on Qibya

In 1953, Israeli forces attacked the Arab West Bank village of Qibya [...] during the night of October 14-15, 1953 killing 69 civilian inhabitants in the process because they were were hiding inside the homes unbeknownst to the Israeli soldiers.

Was this an accident or a war crime?

As documented in the Palestine Facts topic page on Qibya, and the associated links, the deaths occurred during an Israeli raid on the base used by Palestinian Arab terrorists involved in attacks on Israeli civilians, especially a particularly vicious murder of a Jewish mother and her two infants the night before. The Arab civilian deaths were not deliberate; they were unfortunate casualties of the defensive action of the IDF responding to the terrorist attacks.

See also: palestinefacts.org: What happened at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in 1982?



Rebekka

Originally posted by djohnsto77
The mayor of London is a famous far-left liberal barking moonbat. I'd expect no less from him in terms of rhetoric.

I'm going to quote myself and point out the fact that the mayor of London has NO CREDIBILITY TO BE MAKING STATEMENTS LIKE THAT! That was the underlying point that nobody seems to understand here. Does the mayor of London have MI-6 (??) intelligence information on Sharon suggesting this? NO! Has the mayor of London been to Israel? Probably not! What are the credentials of the mayor of London, is he a former municipal policeman? Why does he get to make absurd statements and get by with it?

You dont need to fly to the Sun to know its hot.

I dont need to go and meet Ariel Sharon to know he's got blood on his hands.