Rumor Control: L. Ron Hubbard

Has anyone else here ever heard that Scientology was the result of a bet between Hubbard and Allen Ginsberg to see who could start a religion first?

I have heard this.......yes.....
I believe I have read this tidbit before but do not recall WHERE.....

I do know I have been TOLD this in conversation with people I would tend to trust................Edd Abbey said this to me........(no details forthcoming)......and high dollar friends in Pak City Utah who's names you would remember and would not appreciate me saying so via the internet.

Yes.............I have heard THIS 'rumor' before DC.......dig further!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good Question!! (go back to sleep)

Oh yeah. Sleep. Not much of that going on lately!

I wouldn't be surprised if this was true. Both of them were pretty much on drugs most of their adult lives. Alcohol in L. Ron's case. Anyway, who would believe in a religion whose founder's head rightly found the business end of a .45? Answer me that! That's a mystery in itself. People...

And what about this business of L. Ron Hubbard having founded Scientology right here in my beloved Salt Lake City? Great. First Joseph Smith, then another wacko! Who's next?

mmm... Red Lobster...

Actaully the followers of Hubbard burned his body and everything in his trailer then said he was raised in whole to heaven to be a God.

I think of scientology as more of a cult then religion

There are GOOD things to be found in the Scientology methods......they have helped alot of poeple uncover old traumas.
Differant folks choose differant paths on the road to enlightenment.
Dianetics is just a method some folks have chosen. Its works for them....~go for it!~ I say.

NOTHING stupid about trying to start a religion, the tax benefits alone are pretty tempting to anyone. Besides.....his methods DO WORK...and it can be a VERY Spiritual experiance when clearing out old beliefs that serve you no longer in life.



[edit on 4-3-2005 by theRiverGoddess]

I am surprised NO ONE has anything to offer much on the subject......

I know I have heard this before, I cant be the only one........

Like or dislike L. Ron Hubbard, the man was a hell of a good writer. not much of a contribution to the thread but I wanted to credit the man where it is due.

I think of scientology as more of a cult then religion

the only difference between a cult and an established religion is a matter of demographics. If enough people join, the Government must accept it as a religion.

At least here in the UK anyway. In 2001, during the census, there was a campaign to get 50,000 people to say their religion was a Jedi (I did !)

I think in the end many more did that, so technically, Jedi(ism) would be officially recognised as a religion, if people actually had something to practice!!

Yes, this was said by Hubbard's son in an interview with Penthouse in 1983. Here's the link. There's another thread about this interview here on ATS.

My question is, what was Ginsberg's attempt at religion? Did he even try to write a 'Dianetics' type book?

I know I have heard this before, I cant be the only one........

No your not the only one, I heard it or read it somewhere myself,
was a long time ago now though.

I have to agree with Twitchy Hubbard was a good writer,
but I don't know much about scientology at all, except that a few
well known people are involved, John Travolta etc:

Originally posted by twitchy
Like or dislike L. Ron Hubbard, the man was a hell of a good writer. not much of a contribution to the thread but I wanted to credit the man where it is due.

So's Whitley Strieber and his cult is bigger.

UFO abductees. We have a branch of devotees and believers right here.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
My question is, what was Ginsberg's attempt at religion? Did he even try to write a 'Dianetics' type book?

Ginsberg was much, much too high to actually organize people into any type of structured social set. More than that, I don't actually think he ever believed in anything at all, so he wouldn't very well be able to convince others that they should believe something. Right?

Originally spewed forth thoughtlessly by theRiverGoddess, to whom I will eventually answer in person for the insolence below.
There are GOOD things to be found in the Scientology methods......they have helped alot of poeple uncover old traumas.
Differant folks choose differant paths on the road to enlightenment.
Dianetics is just a method some folks have chosen. Its works for them....~go for it!~ I say.

You know what, pretty lady? Religion is a crutch, and those who seek out one such as Scientology are simply too weak to belong to an actual community of real people. When scientologists pretend to relate to each other and the world around them, they are doing so from their own twisted sense of un-reality. Scientology is nothing more than a platform to justify mass denial. For one to feel good about one's self based on this platform is only to invite the inevitable disappointment to which denial always leads.

Love ya sweetie!




[edit on 6-3-2005 by DeltaChaos]

More than that, I don't actually think he ever believed in anything at all, so he wouldn't very well be able to convince others that they should believe something. Right?

Good point. I guess the 'bet' must have been to see if Hubbard could do it.

In the Penthouse interview, Hubbard Jr. sys that the core of Scientology is black magic. This actually jibes with what I have learned on my own research. There's a lot of power in black magic if a person is willing to sell their soul. It seems to really take a toll on people though. What's the point of becoming godlike if you are trapped in a fat, rotting body? Reminds me of Herod being ruler of the middle east while his body was falling apart and maggot-ridden.

For all the techniques, I'd say Scientology didn't help Elron too much. He was a mess, physically.





[edit on 6-3-2005 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by smallpeeps

For all the t Scientology didn't help Elron too much.

Elron? like the elf lord from Lord of the Rings dude? or are we talking about L Ron Hubbard.....I wanna be CLEAR....just sayin...just MORE of the spewing forth blah blah blah junk that I might do.

[edit on 6-3-2005 by theRiverGoddess]

I was being facetious. 'Elron' is a term that the members use for him from what I've heard. I like it.

He would have been thinner if he'd had elfin blood.

[edit on 6-3-2005 by smallpeeps]

Originally spewed forth thoughtlessly by theRiverGoddess, to whom I will eventually answer in person for the insolence below.
.

Love ya sweetie![edit on 6-3-2005 by DeltaChaos]


First and foremost that was NOT thoughtless. I burned up a few perfectly good brain cells thinking that up as a proper addition to your thread nobody cares about, so feeling sorry for you,...(because you LOCAL to me I fell a certain 'affinity') ......... I spent some quality time helping you with your sad thread in my meager but helpfull manner. Talk about ungratefull...."spewing forth thoughtlessly" once again.............insolence? moi?

I take a bow,
TRG

[edit on 6-3-2005 by theRiverGoddess]

speaking of insolence.....I make a FINE cup of english tea thank you very much, even if you dont know that.....your threads have all just been LAME of late.....drink something caffinated, and then try again with another idea.
YAWN........

(as I spew away to my corner to sulk)

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
speaking of insolence.....I make a FINE cup of english tea thank you very much, even if you dont know that.....your threads have all just been LAME of late.....drink something caffinated, and then try again with another idea.
YAWN........

(as I spew away to my corner to sulk)

Actually, I prefer your peach tea...

Oh yeah? Well... you know what? Umm, YOU'RE LAME!!!

Actually, I always heard it was a $10 bar bet between a bunch of science-fiction writers.

Jerry Pournelle discusses Hubbard and Scientology here.

The story about founding a religion comes from a casual remark made at a poker game among science fiction writers in the 30's, and Robert (Heinlen) wasn't there; I believe Phil Klass is the one who was there and tells it. Phil has been known to embellish a personal experience to make it a better story. The story is that several writers were sitting around and Hubbard said "We're in the wrong racket, the way to get rich is to found a religion." I have never seen any published reference to that remark until long after Scientology had become successful. When I asked Robert one he shrugged and said "It's the kind of thing Ron might have said, but then it's the kind of thing any of us might have said."

I think the whole idea of Hubbard founding Scientology on a bet or to "get rich" is apocryphal. Later on, it seems someone had the idea that it would be a good way to get rich.

EagleWings, that's not what we're talking about anymore. Now we're talking about how lame theRiverGoddess is. Get with it, pal. You know what? Now YOU'RE LAME!!!

Mmmmm.... blackberry pineapple cobbler