Antifa attacks journalist in Portland

a reply to: TheRedneck

Thank you for the eloquent reply and keeping it civil.

I do enjoy a good discussion and you have been a real gentleman (just like Gambler) in this discussion.

I will admit I know too little of American law and customs to proceed this discussion in a meaningfull manner.

My stance on mr.Ngo has proven to be wrong from an American perspective and I would like to emphasize that I do not condone Antifa or violence in any form.

It been a good round guys. Maybe catch you on the next thread with renewed fighting energy.

Stay well.

Peace

a reply to: operation mindcrime

Now you have me wondering where it is that has such strange (to us) ideas about law and order?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Lol...

The Netherlands

It's not that our laws are different but our attitude is.

We've had a lot of these same incidents but our reaction is different.

I remember this really gay reporter bringing a cake to the hells angels. His gimmick was to bring cakes to controversial places. He got the cake thrown in his face and his ass kicked.

General consensus at the time was, "well, if you are going to do stupid stuff, stupid things happen".

We have an entire network (Pow news) that makes a point about being in people's faces and enticing a reaction. They get assaulted a lot but the public opinion always seems to be "if you are going to be looking for trouble, you just may find it".

And that's just it. There is no problem in poking a little but if you get stung don't cry about it. Mr.Ngo wasn't wearing eye protection because he was affraid he would get insects or flies in his eyes. I remain convinced he shares part of the blame and can not be compared to, for instance, a rape victim.

The Netherlands, a weird little country.

Prace

a reply to: operation mindcrime

You see, there is a big difference here in laws and attitudes. Even if someone does something to entice a violent response, the law is not to make that decision. The law is immutable and the police do not determine guilt or innocence (that is reserved for the courts). I would have probably laughed at Ngo getting the milkshakes thrown in his face if there was some type of police response (even just warning the guy to not do it again) and there had not been a complete beatdown afterwards. I do not want some doughnut junkie deciding what laws we have to follow... if we don't have to follow them, they should not be a law!

That is the crux of the entire political debate here. Laws cannot be applied to only one group or only selected people. If person A does something and gets away with it, then person B does something similar and gets the book thrown at them, that is simply wrong. But in many aspects, that is what we have. Progressives do things that would get anyone else thrown in prison, and get off scot-free. Conservatives do things that would mean a slap on the wrist at best for anyone else and are subjected to the full force of the law. That makes the whole thing about equality under the law a major issue for many people, and when we see Ngo beaten without any reaction from law enforcement, well, that's just more of the very thing we are upset about.

That's why I reject the "but both parties do it" line now... I used to be one of those who would state it regularly. But today, even though both parties may do it, only one gets prosecuted.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I understand and I do not have enough of an inside perspective of how one side seems to be favored over the other by law.

It is almost impossible to get an impression of the (preceived) bias if you are not an American and confronted with all the shades of grey.

I should maybe not have jumped into this thread with the notion that this incident was unrelated to other comparible events that might paint a clearer picture but I still find it strange that people will almost rip you a new one and say you support terrorists if you point out that most those people there aren't Antifa.

The may call themselfs Antifa and dress like them but in fact they are just a bunch pissed of kids whom have seen the movie V a few times too many.

Antifa, as some have pointed out, isn't exactly a weekend occupation. It's a way of life, an idiology. I'm all for arresting these people but I assume within that protest only a small marging of people is really Antifa and the rest are just people protesting and throwing milkshakes.

Like theantideluvian pointed out earlier in the thread, Portland seems to be the homebase of two groups that make it a pasttime of finding eachother on occassions and bashing in skulls...you know...hooligans. Not there for an idiology just looking for confrontation.

I understand that prohibiting certain clothing would go directly against your 1st amendment so finding the real revolutionaries is going to be a problem but rounding up the entire mass so you can filter them after would also seem like a violation of your 1st.

I seems like a problem that is going to need a more subtle sollution.

Peace

a reply to: operation mindcrime

...but in fact they are just a bunch pissed of kids whom have seen the movie V a few times too many.

Portland seems to be the homebase of two groups that make it a pasttime of finding eachother on occassions and bashing in skulls...you know...hooligans. Not there for an idiology just looking for confrontation.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Finally something I can agree with 100%!

I disagree that it will take subtlety to deal with this, though. It will take the opposite. The only way to control this nonsense is the exact same way we have controlled nonsense for over 200 years: the force of law. The law must stop being bystanders and get in there to physically stop the violence, regardless of who is being violent. Throw a milkshake, leave and don't come back. Throw a punch, go to jail and stay there for a nice long while.

In order for that to happen, we need to stop this political game-playing that says the police can't do their job because someone in power agrees with the ideals behind the protest. There's a reason Lady Liberty wears a blindfold.

TheRedneck

with all the phones, no one called the police? let's face it folks, we all have to take responsibility sometime.