If faith was blind belief, why would it be of such importance?

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: Sookiechacha

"Creation" itself makes no promises or covenant with you or mankind on your specialness. The created world reinforces how disposable and meaningless you and your life are. This "Creation" on Earth is based on life devouring life, in order for life to continue. Creation says, "You are food". You can have faith in that!

a reply to: Woodcarver

You don't understand.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: Woodcarver

You don't understand.

I don’t understand what?

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Why should I fall from faith?

a reply to: Woodcarver

Most of all the questions you are asking.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: new_here

That is not what religion means or is though.

I don't wish to argue semantics with you, my friend. Define it as you wish, but in any case, the topic is Faith and not Religion.

Just to be clear, I'm just talking about my own personal faith and connection to God. I'm not attempting to tell others to believe as I do. It is MY Truth.

I'm always curious about those who subscribe to the 'religion' of Atheism, though. How they seek to denigrate and insult those who speak of their personal faith. The topic was posed, I said my peace (which included a criticism of organized religion) and those of the Atheist faith pile on with disparaging remarks and attempts to persuade me to their own belief system, when I've done nothing of the sort. What gives? Again I ask, why does my personal Faith vex you so? "The lady Athiest doth protest too much!"

What's wrong with respecting my right to my own beliefs while saying, "This is the way I see it..." ???

But if it is only your truth, and you know it is not reasonable or even matches what other people who make similar claims say, then why share it? Or even why accept it? You know very well that others make claims that you disagree with. This is the problem with faith. It can justify any belief. So why rely on it?

I only shared it b/c the topic asked and I weighed in. I'm not knocking on doors or picketing or anything. I do not "know it is not reasonable" --that is your take on it. As for why accept it when others disagree-- people disagree on tons of #, does that mean I drop everything someone disagrees with?
Why do I rely on it? Simply put, it works for me. It leads me to see beyond my human selfishness, my anger, my worries-- towards altruism and generosity and peace of mind. I don't need you to believe me or agree with me. Only to respect that I am worthy to find my own way, just as you are.

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: new_here

That is not what religion means or is though.

I don't wish to argue semantics with you, my friend. Define it as you wish, but in any case, the topic is Faith and not Religion.

Just to be clear, I'm just talking about my own personal faith and connection to God. I'm not attempting to tell others to believe as I do. It is MY Truth.

I'm always curious about those who subscribe to the 'religion' of Atheism, though. How they seek to denigrate and insult those who speak of their personal faith. The topic was posed, I said my peace (which included a criticism of organized religion) and those of the Atheist faith pile on with disparaging remarks and attempts to persuade me to their own belief system, when I've done nothing of the sort. What gives? Again I ask, why does my personal Faith vex you so? "The lady Athiest doth protest too much!"

What's wrong with respecting my right to my own beliefs while saying, "This is the way I see it..." ???

atheism isn’t a religion. It is the dismissal of claims that gods exist.

It is not a belief. It is the dismissal of claims about gods because there is no evidence to support them.

If you don’t understand anything else, please try to understand that.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Woodcarver

Sorry, faith does do good. You are clearly not in the medical field, if you were you would know how foolish your statement is. In fact faith is part of assessment because of how valuable it is to long and short-term outcomes. No offense meant by this, but it is always better to comment on things you know.

"Faith" can indeed do some interesting things when dealing with human ailments.

That is also true of placebos though. It is the belief here that is important, not the underlying reality of the treatment.

The only on topic point is that Faith does indeed impact medical outcomes, which you agree with.

Who made you the Czar of what's "on topic"?

Lol....just kidding Occam. Always appreciate your contributions, even though a don't always agree.

And yes, I absolutely believe faith can be benificial in a variety of ways.

It doesn't make it rational though. Of course humans, as a rule, are not very rational when emotions are involved.

That is why Vulcans are a superior race.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: Sookiechacha

Why should I fall from faith?

I'm not saying that you should. But your faith isn't a sign to me that what you believe in, a special relationship with the Creator as "God" through religious teachings and dogma, is true.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: new_here

That is not what religion means or is though.

I don't wish to argue semantics with you, my friend. Define it as you wish, but in any case, the topic is Faith and not Religion.

Just to be clear, I'm just talking about my own personal faith and connection to God. I'm not attempting to tell others to believe as I do. It is MY Truth.

I'm always curious about those who subscribe to the 'religion' of Atheism, though. How they seek to denigrate and insult those who speak of their personal faith. The topic was posed, I said my peace (which included a criticism of organized religion) and those of the Atheist faith pile on with disparaging remarks and attempts to persuade me to their own belief system, when I've done nothing of the sort. What gives? Again I ask, why does my personal Faith vex you so? "The lady Athiest doth protest too much!"

What's wrong with respecting my right to my own beliefs while saying, "This is the way I see it..." ???

atheism isn’t a religion. It is the dismissal of claims that gods exist.

It is not a belief. It is the dismissal of claims about gods because there is no evidence to support them.

I put it in "quotes" for a reason dude, because I know it's not considered a religion. But Atheists believe there is no God. Therefore it absolutely IS a belief system.

If you don’t understand anything else, please try to understand that.

A bit condescending, as if you see yourself as the enlightened one attempting to educate the imbecile. I get it-- my faith frustrates you b/c you don't share it and therefore can't fathom it. I feel the same about your beliefs, but let's play nice shall we?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Mach2
a reply to: new_here

A big difference is that belief in aliens, or esp is not an inherrent danger to others, while religion is responsibe for countless millions of death, and immeasurable suffering.

So you are claiming faith is an inherent danger?

Not faith, in and of itself. Like I posted earlier, it is usually benign.

The probkems come when organized religion leverage the faith of individuals to affect a sinister outcome.

Some christian religions, particularly Catholicism, have, in the past done some evil things. Fortunately they have evolved into peaceful non political entities.

A contemporary example of religion using faith to institutionalize evil would be some of the Islamic sects.

Before i get slammed for bashing Islam, let me say I try not to paint any group with a broad brush. The fact is, though, that violence is condoned and even incited by some, in the name of Allah.

a reply to: new_here

But Atheists believe there is no God.

No. Atheists don't believe in your "God", or any "God" that has been hypothetically presented to them. Atheists have an absence of belief, not a belief in absence.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: new_here

But Atheists believe there is no God.

No. Atheists don't believe in your "God", or any "God" that has been hypothetically presented to them. Atheists have an absence of belief, not a belief in absence.

Although I agree with your technical definition, it is splitting hairs.

There is no difference in practicality beyond what an individual rationalizes.

a reply to: Mach2

There is no difference in practicality beyond what an individual rationalizes.

Sure. Atheists aren't immune from the human condition. They just don't look to a "God" to explain. justify or forgive it.

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: new_here

That is not what religion means or is though.

I don't wish to argue semantics with you, my friend. Define it as you wish, but in any case, the topic is Faith and not Religion.

Just to be clear, I'm just talking about my own personal faith and connection to God. I'm not attempting to tell others to believe as I do. It is MY Truth.

I'm always curious about those who subscribe to the 'religion' of Atheism, though. How they seek to denigrate and insult those who speak of their personal faith. The topic was posed, I said my peace (which included a criticism of organized religion) and those of the Atheist faith pile on with disparaging remarks and attempts to persuade me to their own belief system, when I've done nothing of the sort. What gives? Again I ask, why does my personal Faith vex you so? "The lady Athiest doth protest too much!"

What's wrong with respecting my right to my own beliefs while saying, "This is the way I see it..." ???

But if it is only your truth, and you know it is not reasonable or even matches what other people who make similar claims say, then why share it? Or even why accept it? You know very well that others make claims that you disagree with. This is the problem with faith. It can justify any belief. So why rely on it?

I only shared it b/c the topic asked and I weighed in. I'm not knocking on doors or picketing or anything. I do not "know it is not reasonable" --that is your take on it. As for why accept it when others disagree-- people disagree on tons of #, does that mean I drop everything someone disagrees with?
Why do I rely on it? Simply put, it works for me. It leads me to see beyond my human selfishness, my anger, my worries-- towards altruism and generosity and peace of mind. I don't need you to believe me or agree with me. Only to respect that I am worthy to find my own way, just as you are.

I don’t know what “worthy to find your own way” means.

It sounds poetic, like it could make a great inspirational poster.

But it doesn’t mean anything really. You and i are constrained by the same environment. We should be working diligently to understand it and come to some consensus on how it all actually works by exploring everything with methods that are demonstrably reliable. Not protecting those who want to support and defend their own personal fantasy because it makes them feel good. That would be reckless and dangerous. This is the problem with accepting things on faith instead of withholding acceptance of things until they are reasonable to accept as part of the formula.

That is also the crux of the danger of accepting things that are not reliably demonstrable. People who think that prayer helps heal them are a lot less likely to get proper medical treatment.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

Where does this evil come from? Surely faith means something in the Bible and it can have sizes.

Evil comes from having the ability to choose. You could not have evil without having good and the free mind to understand and choose between the two. Actually freedom to choose is instilled in all of this creation and not just humans.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Nope. The universe is proof that the universe exists. You would necessarily need to demonstrate that a god created it to make the claim that a god created it.

Let's talk about that for a minute. Everything works in a pattern of order to make it all work effectively and in order to sustain itself. How could anything but a being with intelligence make that work? Last I checked, science has never said that the universe has an intelligence level all of it's own without assistance.

Think about what creates order in your everyday life. Could it be policies and procedures that have been created by intelligent beings that know how the process works or should work? Does it require managers, executives and a higher level of hierarchy to make sure that the order is followed and protected to make it productive? What if your employer, if you have one, had none of that? What if the sun, moon, earth, planets, and the rest of the universe didn't follow any kind of order? What would be the result? To just say that the universe is proof that a universe exists is a worthless and lame comment. Let's put some brain power behind it.

I, like out6of9Balance, believe that our world (as well as the intelligent beings living in it) are proof of a Creator.

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: new_here

That is not what religion means or is though.

I don't wish to argue semantics with you, my friend. Define it as you wish, but in any case, the topic is Faith and not Religion.

Just to be clear, I'm just talking about my own personal faith and connection to God. I'm not attempting to tell others to believe as I do. It is MY Truth.

I'm always curious about those who subscribe to the 'religion' of Atheism, though. How they seek to denigrate and insult those who speak of their personal faith. The topic was posed, I said my peace (which included a criticism of organized religion) and those of the Atheist faith pile on with disparaging remarks and attempts to persuade me to their own belief system, when I've done nothing of the sort. What gives? Again I ask, why does my personal Faith vex you so? "The lady Athiest doth protest too much!"

What's wrong with respecting my right to my own beliefs while saying, "This is the way I see it..." ???

atheism isn’t a religion. It is the dismissal of claims that gods exist.

It is not a belief. It is the dismissal of claims about gods because there is no evidence to support them.

I put it in "quotes" for a reason dude, because I know it's not considered a religion. But Atheists believe there is no God. Therefore it absolutely IS a belief system.

If you don’t understand anything else, please try to understand that.

A bit condescending, as if you see yourself as the enlightened one attempting to educate the imbecile. I get it-- my faith frustrates you b/c you don't share it and therefore can't fathom it. I feel the same about your beliefs, but let's play nice shall we?

Yea, some atheists make the claim that gods don’t exist. I am one of them.

But the definition of atheist is a person who doesn’t believe in gods. Not a person who claims gods don’t exist. Theist and atheist are words that describe your beliefs. Not claims about gods existing or not.

Someone who says gods (don’t / prob don’t) exist is an atheist. But making the positive claim that gods do not exist would need something to support that claim..... and as we all know, you cannot prove a negative. That is to say that i cannot prove that something Doesn’t exist. It is actually imposiible to prove that something Doesn’t exist. Anything. It is a known logical fallacy.

It’s not like there are obviously gods floating around and atheists don’t believe in them. There are people claiming that gods exist, and we don’t believe them for obvious reasons.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

Faith is more like trust than blind belief. Trust could be dangerous, but then again it puts the mind at ease. Best to make sure we have faith I the right things.

a reply to: Woodcarver

But the definition of atheist is a person who doesn’t believe in gods. Not a person who claims gods don’t exist.

Wouldn't that make you Agnostic rather than Atheist?