If faith was blind belief, why would it be of such importance?

a reply to: Mach2

Would most ppl have faith, without indoctrination?

Absolutely not.

You must first be given an intellectual diagnoses of a situation or problem and then a prescription must be given for the correct action to be taken to make changes of the diagnoses, in which you must decide to act on it or not. Faith would be the action upon the information you had received about the prescription for the diagnoses.

An example (not for arguing if true or not, just for an example) "Climate Change", The indoctrination of it came from the Public School System and Television media. The information was given at school and in the media in things like weather reports called "Extreme Weather" or in movies like the "Day After Tomorrow".

Now you must act in faith to follow through with the prescription given? When you take the prescription you have faith that it will work to change the diagnoses.

That faith is not blind, it was based on the diagnoses. The diagnoses was given in order to evoke a response one way or another, the response if followed is FAITH.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Woody, faith is not the information, it is the actions taken upon the information that was given.

a reply to: Sookiechacha


Faith is the steps that are taken with the information your a given.

Just read the replies I gave above this one.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

There is nothing to intellectually analyze. Either you have faith that the Bible is the Word of God or you don't. There is concrete proof that the Bible was written by men, none that it is God's word, therefore that faith must be blind faith.

I don't have a problem with faith, until people give that faith 100% belief and refuse to accept the possibility that faith is misplaced and they might be wrong. Which is the problem I have with religion as it demands 100% belief. I have faith in a lot of things, the difference is, I never give anything 100% faith, if I did I would consider myself mentally handicapped. I might give something 99.98% but never 100%, because no matter how much I may believe I understand the reality of something, there's always the chance I'm wrong, no matter how certain I feel. As a result every action I take requires faith that I'm going to be right in playing the odds this time.

a reply to: Puppylove

Do you give Climate Change 100% belief?

a reply to: ChesterJohn

No. I don't give my own existence 100% belief.

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I've already confirmed what you've stated above as true, but you can't prove that it all evolved into a complex human or how it evolved into a complex human.

What part of all the various forms of life on earth are related do you not understand? We all evolved from the same very early simple form of life. That is the evidence that humans evolved from earlier forms of life.

just because all life on Earth contains the same materials, does not automatically prove that more complex came from more simple life forms. It just says that the all contain the available material existing on the Earth!

If I make little cupcakes, and use the same ingredients to make a huge layer cake, does that mean one of the cupcakes developed into the cake? Nope. I am the Creator of both, using the same kitchen ingredients.

Not just the same materials, the same DNA molecule sequences. Look up mitochondria, it is how we can do paternity tests. We use to visually see the relationships between even distantly related organisms.

I don’t believe you haven’t looked into this at all.

Ok, so? That's just how living things are sequenced? To follow the cupcake/cake analogy... first you cream the butter and sugar, then add the eggs & oil, then the flour mixture. If the sequence is off, it doesn't turn out right. Similar sequencing in life forms on planet Earth just makes sense.

ok so? You obviously don’t understand the first thing about genetics.

Attacking the opponent in a debate is the only recourse for those with nothing to volley!

Saying you don’t understand a very complex field of study is not an attack, but if you felt the burn just from pointing that out, maybe you should just go watch some kenneth cooeland, or joel olsteen, if you give them some money, they’ll be able to fly a jet to africa and drink on the beach while they think about you. Maybe.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I've already confirmed what you've stated above as true, but you can't prove that it all evolved into a complex human or how it evolved into a complex human.

What part of all the various forms of life on earth are related do you not understand? We all evolved from the same very early simple form of life. That is the evidence that humans evolved from earlier forms of life.

just because all life on Earth contains the same materials, does not automatically prove that more complex came from more simple life forms. It just says that the all contain the available material existing on the Earth!

If I make little cupcakes, and use the same ingredients to make a huge layer cake, does that mean one of the cupcakes developed into the cake? Nope. I am the Creator of both, using the same kitchen ingredients.

Not just the same materials, the same DNA molecule sequences. Look up mitochondria, it is how we can do paternity tests. We use to visually see the relationships between even distantly related organisms.

I don’t believe you haven’t looked into this at all.

Ok, so? That's just how living things are sequenced? To follow the cupcake/cake analogy... first you cream the butter and sugar, then add the eggs & oil, then the flour mixture. If the sequence is off, it doesn't turn out right. Similar sequencing in life forms on planet Earth just makes sense.

ok so? You obviously don’t understand the first thing about genetics.

Attacking the opponent in a debate is the only recourse for those with nothing to volley!

Saying you don’t understand a very complex field of study is not an attack, but if you felt the burn just from pointing that out, maybe you should just go watch some kenneth cooeland, or joel olsteen, if you give them some money, they’ll be able to fly a jet to africa and drink on the beach while they think about you. Maybe.

Hold your horses Woody.
You have been shown to be wrong so many times now, that you have resorted to being mean to people, to protect the delusion.

You have been shown to be a faith-based believer many times in this thread alone. And yet you still seem to want to criticize others for their beliefs, while denying your own many faith-based beliefs.

Everyone has been nice to you, and tried to help you.
We're all here for different reasons, maybe mostly entertainment and distraction perhaps.
Be nice if you can.
Being more open to examining your own beliefs, while not mocking others, might be a good start.

Don't want to argue with you, just discuss.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Woodcarver

If you can show me that i have a belief that i cannot demonstrate plausibly, i will happily change my mind.

Plausibly? Best you go back to the drawing board with that one.

"(1) having an appearance of truth or reason; seemingly worthy of approval or acceptance; credible; believable: a plausible excuse; a plausible plot.
(2) well-spoken and apparently, but often deceptively, worthy of confidence or trust: a plausible commentator."

But no more factual than belief in a God. I can plausibly demonstrate intelligent design. No proof though.

Can you demonstrate the proof that this world was here 4.5 billion years ago? Can you demonstrate that the chemistry of this world is constant? Plausible? Belief? Faith? Looks all the same to me. Does science change their proof of yesterday today? Will science change their proof of today tomorrow? Plausible? You have no idea of what you are saying.

I chose that word correctly.

And yes. It has been shown through multiple disciplines of science that our multiple ways of dating different things is quite accurate.

The idea of gods existing is not plausible, because, as you have very generally noted. There is no evidence to support the existence of god.

This lack of evidence is the entire point of needing faith, as i have needed to point out at least eight times in this very thread.

Mathematics is just a language that allows the expression of concepts/thought. Its a mistake to think that language is proof of anything (religion and science). Isn't truth relative to the observer!

Which brings us to the observer effect. Could that not be the rabbit hole that might awaken science from the Illusion of separation. Some might equate that to the label of God.

a reply to: Deetermined

Yes, isn't it amazing!!

a reply to: Puppylove

now that's funny.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

The Bible was indeed penned by men but it is God's word inspired to them and preserved by God for all generations to have, and it takes faith for it all. But that faith is not blind it is based on facts found in the Bible. Whether you believe those facts or not. Now here belief and faith are not synonymous. One scripture says this,

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

The answer is No.

Some seek only to quarrel.

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I've already confirmed what you've stated above as true, but you can't prove that it all evolved into a complex human or how it evolved into a complex human.

What part of all the various forms of life on earth are related do you not understand? We all evolved from the same very early simple form of life. That is the evidence that humans evolved from earlier forms of life.

just because all life on Earth contains the same materials, does not automatically prove that more complex came from more simple life forms. It just says that the all contain the available material existing on the Earth!

If I make little cupcakes, and use the same ingredients to make a huge layer cake, does that mean one of the cupcakes developed into the cake? Nope. I am the Creator of both, using the same kitchen ingredients.

Not just the same materials, the same DNA molecule sequences. Look up mitochondria, it is how we can do paternity tests. We use to visually see the relationships between even distantly related organisms.

I don’t believe you haven’t looked into this at all.

Ok, so? That's just how living things are sequenced? To follow the cupcake/cake analogy... first you cream the butter and sugar, then add the eggs & oil, then the flour mixture. If the sequence is off, it doesn't turn out right. Similar sequencing in life forms on planet Earth just makes sense.

ok so? You obviously don’t understand the first thing about genetics.

Attacking the opponent in a debate is the only recourse for those with nothing to volley!

Saying you don’t understand a very complex field of study is not an attack, but if you felt the burn just from pointing that out, maybe you should just go watch some kenneth cooeland, or joel olsteen, if you give them some money, they’ll be able to fly a jet to africa and drink on the beach while they think about you. Maybe.

Hold your horses Woody.
You have been shown to be wrong so many times now, that you have resorted to being mean to people, to protect the delusion.

You have been shown to be a faith-based believer many times in this thread alone. And yet you still seem to want to criticize others for their beliefs, while denying your own many faith-based beliefs.

Everyone has been nice to you, and tried to help you.
We're all here for different reasons, maybe mostly entertainment and distraction perhaps.
Be nice if you can.
Being more open to examining your own beliefs, while not mocking others, might be a good start.

Don't want to argue with you, just discuss.

Oh yea, i’m sure all of the scientists and their studies that i have linked to are all wrong, and you just intuitively know this without even looking, or reading, or trying to understand decades of work done by tens of thousands of people, because...... god just did it.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I've already confirmed what you've stated above as true, but you can't prove that it all evolved into a complex human or how it evolved into a complex human.

What part of all the various forms of life on earth are related do you not understand? We all evolved from the same very early simple form of life. That is the evidence that humans evolved from earlier forms of life.

just because all life on Earth contains the same materials, does not automatically prove that more complex came from more simple life forms. It just says that the all contain the available material existing on the Earth!

If I make little cupcakes, and use the same ingredients to make a huge layer cake, does that mean one of the cupcakes developed into the cake? Nope. I am the Creator of both, using the same kitchen ingredients.

Not just the same materials, the same DNA molecule sequences. Look up mitochondria, it is how we can do paternity tests. We use to visually see the relationships between even distantly related organisms.

I don’t believe you haven’t looked into this at all.

Ok, so? That's just how living things are sequenced? To follow the cupcake/cake analogy... first you cream the butter and sugar, then add the eggs & oil, then the flour mixture. If the sequence is off, it doesn't turn out right. Similar sequencing in life forms on planet Earth just makes sense.

ok so? You obviously don’t understand the first thing about genetics.

Attacking the opponent in a debate is the only recourse for those with nothing to volley!

Saying you don’t understand a very complex field of study is not an attack, but if you felt the burn just from pointing that out, maybe you should just go watch some kenneth cooeland, or joel olsteen, if you give them some money, they’ll be able to fly a jet to africa and drink on the beach while they think about you. Maybe.

Hold your horses Woody.
You have been shown to be wrong so many times now, that you have resorted to being mean to people, to protect the delusion.

You have been shown to be a faith-based believer many times in this thread alone. And yet you still seem to want to criticize others for their beliefs, while denying your own many faith-based beliefs.

Everyone has been nice to you, and tried to help you.
We're all here for different reasons, maybe mostly entertainment and distraction perhaps.
Be nice if you can.
Being more open to examining your own beliefs, while not mocking others, might be a good start.

Don't want to argue with you, just discuss.

Oh yea, i’m sure all of the scientists and their studies that i have linked to are all wrong, and you just intuitively know this without even looking, or reading, or trying to understand decades of work done by tens of thousands of people, because...... god just did it.

Your false beliefs are showing again.
Wanna examine them?

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I've already confirmed what you've stated above as true, but you can't prove that it all evolved into a complex human or how it evolved into a complex human.

What part of all the various forms of life on earth are related do you not understand? We all evolved from the same very early simple form of life. That is the evidence that humans evolved from earlier forms of life.

just because all life on Earth contains the same materials, does not automatically prove that more complex came from more simple life forms. It just says that the all contain the available material existing on the Earth!

If I make little cupcakes, and use the same ingredients to make a huge layer cake, does that mean one of the cupcakes developed into the cake? Nope. I am the Creator of both, using the same kitchen ingredients.

Not just the same materials, the same DNA molecule sequences. Look up mitochondria, it is how we can do paternity tests. We use to visually see the relationships between even distantly related organisms.

I don’t believe you haven’t looked into this at all.

Ok, so? That's just how living things are sequenced? To follow the cupcake/cake analogy... first you cream the butter and sugar, then add the eggs & oil, then the flour mixture. If the sequence is off, it doesn't turn out right. Similar sequencing in life forms on planet Earth just makes sense.

ok so? You obviously don’t understand the first thing about genetics.

Attacking the opponent in a debate is the only recourse for those with nothing to volley!

Saying you don’t understand a very complex field of study is not an attack, but if you felt the burn just from pointing that out, maybe you should just go watch some kenneth cooeland, or joel olsteen, if you give them some money, they’ll be able to fly a jet to africa and drink on the beach while they think about you. Maybe.

Hold your horses Woody.
You have been shown to be wrong so many times now, that you have resorted to being mean to people, to protect the delusion.

You have been shown to be a faith-based believer many times in this thread alone. And yet you still seem to want to criticize others for their beliefs, while denying your own many faith-based beliefs.

Everyone has been nice to you, and tried to help you.
We're all here for different reasons, maybe mostly entertainment and distraction perhaps.
Be nice if you can.
Being more open to examining your own beliefs, while not mocking others, might be a good start.

Don't want to argue with you, just discuss.

Oh yea, i’m sure all of the scientists and their studies that i have linked to are all wrong, and you just intuitively know this without even looking, or reading, or trying to understand decades of work done by tens of thousands of people, because...... god just did it.

Your false beliefs are showing again.
Wanna examine them?

Saying i’m wrong isn’t the same as proving i’m wrong.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I've already confirmed what you've stated above as true, but you can't prove that it all evolved into a complex human or how it evolved into a complex human.

What part of all the various forms of life on earth are related do you not understand? We all evolved from the same very early simple form of life. That is the evidence that humans evolved from earlier forms of life.

just because all life on Earth contains the same materials, does not automatically prove that more complex came from more simple life forms. It just says that the all contain the available material existing on the Earth!

If I make little cupcakes, and use the same ingredients to make a huge layer cake, does that mean one of the cupcakes developed into the cake? Nope. I am the Creator of both, using the same kitchen ingredients.

Not just the same materials, the same DNA molecule sequences. Look up mitochondria, it is how we can do paternity tests. We use to visually see the relationships between even distantly related organisms.

I don’t believe you haven’t looked into this at all.

Ok, so? That's just how living things are sequenced? To follow the cupcake/cake analogy... first you cream the butter and sugar, then add the eggs & oil, then the flour mixture. If the sequence is off, it doesn't turn out right. Similar sequencing in life forms on planet Earth just makes sense.

ok so? You obviously don’t understand the first thing about genetics.

Attacking the opponent in a debate is the only recourse for those with nothing to volley!

Saying you don’t understand a very complex field of study is not an attack, but if you felt the burn just from pointing that out, maybe you should just go watch some kenneth cooeland, or joel olsteen, if you give them some money, they’ll be able to fly a jet to africa and drink on the beach while they think about you. Maybe.

Hold your horses Woody.
You have been shown to be wrong so many times now, that you have resorted to being mean to people, to protect the delusion.

You have been shown to be a faith-based believer many times in this thread alone. And yet you still seem to want to criticize others for their beliefs, while denying your own many faith-based beliefs.

Everyone has been nice to you, and tried to help you.
We're all here for different reasons, maybe mostly entertainment and distraction perhaps.
Be nice if you can.
Being more open to examining your own beliefs, while not mocking others, might be a good start.

Don't want to argue with you, just discuss.

Oh yea, i’m sure all of the scientists and their studies that i have linked to are all wrong, and you just intuitively know this without even looking, or reading, or trying to understand decades of work done by tens of thousands of people, because...... god just did it.

Your false beliefs are showing again.
Wanna examine them?

Saying i’m wrong isn’t the same as proving i’m wrong.

Proving isn't the problem.
It's figuring-out how to reach you, to help you see the errors of your false-beliefs.

Faith, because you sometimes have to start somewhere, and another reason because it is a spiritual battle, and goes mostly unseen.

also you can read the bible, but wasnt there, so have to have some belief/faith and then work on your beliefs and faith as you go along.

some people are lucky to get some conformation and so there faith will be more truth like, but a lot of us have to go on faith and go from there.

faith can be a starting point for most people, because that is what most of us have while living, and then faith in the belief in Jesus to save our Souls at death.

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I've already confirmed what you've stated above as true, but you can't prove that it all evolved into a complex human or how it evolved into a complex human.

What part of all the various forms of life on earth are related do you not understand? We all evolved from the same very early simple form of life. That is the evidence that humans evolved from earlier forms of life.

just because all life on Earth contains the same materials, does not automatically prove that more complex came from more simple life forms. It just says that the all contain the available material existing on the Earth!

If I make little cupcakes, and use the same ingredients to make a huge layer cake, does that mean one of the cupcakes developed into the cake? Nope. I am the Creator of both, using the same kitchen ingredients.

Not just the same materials, the same DNA molecule sequences. Look up mitochondria, it is how we can do paternity tests. We use to visually see the relationships between even distantly related organisms.

I don’t believe you haven’t looked into this at all.

Ok, so? That's just how living things are sequenced? To follow the cupcake/cake analogy... first you cream the butter and sugar, then add the eggs & oil, then the flour mixture. If the sequence is off, it doesn't turn out right. Similar sequencing in life forms on planet Earth just makes sense.

ok so? You obviously don’t understand the first thing about genetics.

Attacking the opponent in a debate is the only recourse for those with nothing to volley!

Saying you don’t understand a very complex field of study is not an attack, but if you felt the burn just from pointing that out, maybe you should just go watch some kenneth cooeland, or joel olsteen, if you give them some money, they’ll be able to fly a jet to africa and drink on the beach while they think about you. Maybe.

Hold your horses Woody.
You have been shown to be wrong so many times now, that you have resorted to being mean to people, to protect the delusion.

You have been shown to be a faith-based believer many times in this thread alone. And yet you still seem to want to criticize others for their beliefs, while denying your own many faith-based beliefs.

Everyone has been nice to you, and tried to help you.
We're all here for different reasons, maybe mostly entertainment and distraction perhaps.
Be nice if you can.
Being more open to examining your own beliefs, while not mocking others, might be a good start.

Don't want to argue with you, just discuss.

Oh yea, i’m sure all of the scientists and their studies that i have linked to are all wrong, and you just intuitively know this without even looking, or reading, or trying to understand decades of work done by tens of thousands of people, because...... god just did it.

Your false beliefs are showing again.
Wanna examine them?

Saying i’m wrong isn’t the same as proving i’m wrong.

Proving isn't the problem.
It's figuring-out how to reach you, to help you see the errors of your false-beliefs.

Which beliefs would those be?