Psychology Today: People Refusing To Date Transgenders Is ‘Dehumanizing’

a reply to: ketsuko

Yeah, but that's different, there ain't many men out there who are attractive enough(obesity epidemic) for a woman to want to sleep with, and out of the men who are fit, there's other factors that go into a specific woman feeling sexually attracted to the guy, if she's not emotionally involved with him.

But in the fashion industry, where every guy is hot, and he was in the presence of these men? Who's to say the men who say they aren't attracted to men wouldn't feel a tingle?

And I've never been attracted to any woman, not even the ones I think are good looking.

Probably differences in female to male anatomy and chemistry. Most women here are conventionally attractive, nearly all of them look like her -> i.pinimg.com...

but I'm not physically attracted to most of them. I don't feel sexual tension when I look at them. I don't find myself thinking of them when I'm away from them, and I don't pursue them when they send me signals of interest.

I have a type, but my body doesn't feel any difficulty in performing with women like the one I showed you, if they make it easy for me and are the ones doing all, or most of the work.

But 9 out of 10 times, I'd rather sleep with women like her i.pinimg.com...

Ever since my college sent me to the middle-east 10 years ago, I developed quite the fetish for Muslim women 🤷

a reply to: Ligyron

I wouldn't put it that way, calling it maturity. I feel that it's more the case of these young women feeling that someone as attractive as my friends are, guys who are as attractive as Brad Pitt was in his youthful prime(Legends of the Fall; Interview With The Vampire; 7 years in Tibet) have a lot of options with very attractive women, and I guess many women want to feel appreciated and valued, instead of being seen as someone to spend a night with instead.

Um... okay. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. First, on Brad Pitt... lots of us don't consider Brad Pitt the end-all-be-all!!! (Especially after what he did to Jennifer Aniston -- Team Jen here!)

I very much think that it's a sign of maturity to actually have and hold standards for one's self. The less mature a girl/woman is, the more likely she is to be impressed and flattered by male attention alone... the more mature a girl/woman is, the more likely she is to realize that many/most men are dogs and will do it with any bitch in heat, so she's not so impressed and flattered. I will even take it a step further, and say that the more mature a girl/woman is, the more she values and respects herself, and is less inclined to settle for being mauled and groped and treated like a piece of meat for a "wham, bam, thank you ma'am" experience.

Someone who is less attractive than the women in question is more likely to care more about her, and to put more effort into pursuing her and beginning a relationship with her, same goes for maintaining it.

I've heard this before, and it's probably true for some. But I also know of women who want that good looking guy because she thinks it increases her chances of having pretty babies -- not because he will treat her better.

Although, it's kinda hurtful as a man, when some of those women won't hook-up with you for the night instead saying that they will only sleep with you if you date them first. Makes you feel unwanted and undesirable, even more so when you know they've had casual sex with other dudes before you met them.

This is rather creepy... and a little rapey. It comes off as having absolutely no regard or respect for the woman as a person, but simply a piece of meat for you to have your way with. Not much different from men who think rape is no big deal if the woman has had sex before because by golly gee if a woman lets one man do it then she's fair game for all men!

Yes, but why is our civilization and the society we've been born into for the past two thousand years still clinging to old worldviews and attitudes regarding sex, sexuality, and sexual fidelity.... [snip]... I want a free world. A world where women can have sex with 5, 10, 50, 100 men of their own free wheel, because they want to do it, without being judged and penalized by society and men for doing it.

Women can and do have as many partners as they so choose... And women know they will be judged by others no matter what they do or do not do. For every man who has called a woman a slut or whore for having too many partners, there's another man who has called a woman frigid or a prude for not having enough partners. And then there are always the men who will call them something because they accepted this or that partner but didn't accept them as partners. And for every woman who has multiple partners because she wants to, there are just as many women who do because they are expected to.

In my experience, more and more women are saying "no" to ALL partners and preferring to love themselves because relationships -- including sexual relationships -- are just too much trouble. You can take that as you will

The argument of doing what is collectively better for society is a loaded gun that is wrongly handled by men who have no business doing that.

You misunderstood my point. I was simply saying that we learn both as individuals and collectively as a society. I wasn't saying anything about one way or another being better for society.

Yeah, but marrying for love is not natural, because if it was, we wouldn't have a 54% divorce rate in the US alone, with many of the people not divorcing being religious and thus it being against their religion... [snip]... Arranged marriages are also wrong.

I disagree, because unions and partnerships and cooperative arrangements of all kinds are very much within human nature, and marriage is just one. I would say the bigger problem -- and a growing problem -- is a combination of unreasonable and impractical expectations of marriage creating a faulty foundation for that marriage.

There's a way to fix all of this. End monogamy, end marriage, end co-habitation, populate every Country with sperm banks, and help women raise the babies they have with this top-notch clinic sperm, instead of forcing women into getting married out of necessity, because most women want babies, and they need to be with a man/sleep with a man/marry a man, to ensure the kid is made, and has the best upbringing possible.

Wow. As noted, I'm an old married woman. So you would criminalize all that we have built and achieved the last 40 years? No. Just no.

Marriage ain't easy and it ain't for sissies. We wouldn't have to take solemn vows if it were! I understand that marriage is not for everyone. But the same qualities that contribute to failed marriages -- Selfishness, irresponsibility, belittling others, dishonesty, disloyalty -- are the same qualities in greater society taking us ALL to hell in a handbasket.

a reply to: Ligyron

So, basically, you just dehumanized a group of people yourself by admitting you also have your preferences in finding certain groups more attractive than others.

The difference between a man and woman is that a man can have his fun regardless of his emotional state in many cases. A woman needs to have some emotional involvement to really enjoy her fun. If she's not emotionally engaged, then she ain't getting her rocks off most of the time.

When I was still a dating woman, I preferred to get to know the guy before I got it on with him. It helped make the experience better for me when/if it got around to it. Then, even if he was lousy in the sack, I had that much going on.

It's not dehumanizing because people have different sexual preferences and that is ok, right?


It's a bit hypocritical to say that it's ok to be different and not be into dating the opposite gender, but then say that it's wrong to be different and not be into dating transgendered people.

a reply to: lightofgratitude

Exactly, transgenders need to accept that just because they look like a man or a woman doesn't make them one biologically, and most people who are dating are doing it to eventually find a partner they can settle down with and have kids with. It's a basic biological drive. Most people aren't into dating just to date, not deep down inside.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I always knew it will come to this but out of respect for T&C I won't say more than that.

Well, too bad that dating is not an act of charity.
You're either attracted to a person or you're not. We don't date people based on social justice agendas. " Oh this month I'll date only bald people, and next month I'll date people with ADhD." It doesn't work that way.
There are some confused souls out there who might want to prove a point but generally no.

If anything this kind of idiotic virtue signaling will only make people despise the whole trans agenda even more.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I can remember a time, not all that long ago, that psychology, in general, would think there was a problem with someone who could not accept their biological identity and "believed" they were something else. Back then it would be considered dehumanizing to deny the real human you are in favor of the imaginary one you want to be.

Um... okay. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. First, on Brad Pitt... lots of us don't consider Brad Pitt the end-all-be-all!!! (Especially after what he did to Jennifer Aniston -- Team Jen here!)

Sure, but whatever else guy(probably George Clooney) many women are attracted to, instead of Brad Pitt, that guy also shares the same physical characteristics that makes Brad Pitt earn in the excess of dozens of millions per movie.

It is also good enough for Dr. Julian De Salva, who runs The Centre For Advanced Facial Cosmetic And Plastic Surgery in London, and spoke to the Daily Mail about using computer mapping technology on some of the world's most famous faces, to scientifically figure out who was the best looking bloke in the world (providing they're famous, obviously).

"He has beautiful facial symmetry and gets closer than any other man to having what the Greeks considered the perfect face. [He] had a near perfect ratio of nose to lip dimension of 99.6 per cent and his chin and eye spacing were almost perfect as well. Across the 12 key markers he had the highest combined score."

1. George Clooney 91.86%

www.her.ie...

I very much think that it's a sign of maturity to actually have and hold standards for one's self. The less mature a girl/woman is, the more likely she is to be impressed and flattered by male attention alone...

Well, I don't see how a woman's maturity is related to how impressed she is by male attention. Everyone enjoys attention, men or women, especially positive attention. And when a woman gets attention by some of the most attractive men to ever walk thi earth. Yeah, I'm not going to blame her for being impressed and flattered by it.

It's not like the average man looks like him, now does he? www.adcolima.com...

Nor are men like that paying attention, even noticing the existence of women who aren't very physically attractive. Having a guy like that notice her, yeah, many women are going to be feel very flattered about it. And my friends look like that, or better, if that is even possible.

I will even take it a step further, and say that the more mature a girl/woman is, the more she values and respects herself, and is less inclined to settle for being mauled and groped and treated like a piece of meat for a "wham, bam, thank you ma'am" experience.

I feel that it has more to do with her culture, sex drive, and how she feels about sex, and what she is looking for at the moment rather than how she is as a woman or as a person.

Like, if a woman is just looking for casual sex, then they're going to go for guys like the guy I showed you, and of course that depends on the attractiveness of the woman herself and how high her self-esteem is. I've hooked up with some very pretty women who sadly weren't considered ''hot'' as they were ''too'' tall for many men(5'10''+ women) or with women with a face like Sean Young

-> m.media-amazon.com...@._V1_.jpg

but because they were very skinny, they felt they lacked the curves, the sex appeal to talk with my very physically attractive friends, so they lowered their standards for me, I'm assuming, because I would be more likely to want to sleep with them and to make it an enjoyable experience for them.

I've heard this before, and it's probably true for some. But I also know of women who want that good looking guy because she thinks it increases her chances of having pretty babies -- not because he will treat her better.

Yes, it's the Sexy son hypothesis
[
quote]The sexy son hypothesis in evolutionary biology and sexual selection—proposed by Ronald Fisher in 1930—states that a female's ideal mate choice among potential mates is one whose genes will produce male offspring with the best chance of reproductive success. This also implies that a potential mate's capacity as a parental caregiver or any other direct benefits the father can offer the mother, such as nuptial gifts or good territory, are irrelevant to his value as the potential father of the female's offspring.


It's why many women not on birth control sleep with famous soccer players and atheletes.

This is rather creepy... and a little rapey. It comes off as having absolutely no regard or respect for the woman as a person, but simply a piece of meat for you to have your way with.

Nah. It would be creepy if I hooked up with women who are drunk while I'm sober. Which doesn't happen. In one hand because I don't drink alcohol, on the other hand because I want a woman to be fully into me. I want to be desired like the Conquistadores wanted the Incan gold. For that to be even be remotely possible, she has to be clean of all and any drugs.

I'm 28 years old. Most of the women I meet who are my age or older are either married or looking for marriage/co-habitation. Most of them want to have children. I have no interest in having children as I feel that there's too many people in the world, and considering I'm not the world's greatest soccer player, and I'm not a Calvin Klein model, that I don't really have any reasons to breed.

That's why I go for women who are 10 years younger than me. I can still pass for someone who is in his late teens to early 20s, and working as a bartender in one of the most popular nightclubs in the area enables me to be near a lot of young women from Germany, France, italy, and so on, who are just looking for a few nights away from their families, jobs, college, and boyfriends.

And yes, I do feel deeply hurt when a woman wants something serious with me instead of wanting a casual affair, because it implies I'm not as attractive as my heart wishes I was, and remember. These are ''party girls''. If they are making a guy wait it's because they aren't really into him.

I disagree, because unions and partnerships and cooperative arrangements of all kinds are very much within human nature, and marriage is just one. I would say the bigger problem -- and a growing problem -- is a combination of unreasonable and impractical expectations of marriage creating a faulty foundation for that marriage.

Nah. Human beings aren't naturally monogamous.

Given the fact that 80% of early human societies were polygamous, why did later populations become largely monogamous? Science has no answer to that, apparently, although there are theories, as you might expect. One of them has to do with the "two parent" advantage to monogamy in caring for the young.

www.psychologytoday.com...

There was another article I read in a newspaper today from a Harvard researcher who said human beings are naturally polly, and that monogamy was created for women. Probably to ensure every worker has access to sex and reproduction, as women when left to their own devises(as they should be) go invariably for physically attractive men.

Spain, one of the poorest Countries in the UE averages 5'8'' for the men. The Netherlands, one of the richest averages 6 feet for the men and there's millions who are above 6 feet by several inches.

a reply to: CthruU

I think it is because these are people who CANNOT accept themselves. So they force their neurosis onto everyone else in the hope that enough external validation will fix their self-loathing.

I've really lost all patience with activists. One on one if the person is decent and they are minding their own business is one thing. I've met several trans people. I do not ridicule them or say hey, you're not really a guy just because you dress like one. Whatever, live and let live. But a stranger has ZERO rights on my opinion of them and ZERO rights to demand I accept them if I do not choose so.

Carefully selecting who we mate with is ultimately very human. Animals are driven by instincts and pheromones. We have our instincts, but we also select mates according to socioeconomic status. Not wanting to date a transgender person is not really different than not wanting to date a crackhead or a nerd.

Hot Chicks Refusing to Date Nerds is "Dehumanizing"

a reply to: continuousThunder

Did you miss this bit in the above?

after their six-year-old daughter became overtly confused when her first-grade teacher taught the class to question their gender.

You don't think there's an agenda here. No comment about the indoctrination of the compliant young in a school setting?

We're supposed to have empathy for these people when they employ such methods?

GTFO

What the hell does swiss-gendered mean any ways sounds insulting actually.

I'm pretty sure it actually the opposite way around with the amount of plot holes this topic already has that I can see through.

What about B,G, or L by definition are swiss. T want to swiss, while weird wanted to be normal.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
okay, let's take this extremely slowly. let me know if you get lost and need me to explain again.

Let's see...

originally posted by: continuousThunder
it is dehumanising to declare that you wouldn't date an entire class of people.
that's a simple fact - you're treating people as an identical mass that you can just cast aside in one go.
that's pretty much the definition of dehumanising there.

It is not... There are a bunch of hispanic women, white women, and other women I would not date... Am I responsible for the health of those women because they can't get dates?... NO...

I would not "date" any men because I don't feel any attraction towards men, am I dehumanizing them?... NO...
Am I responsible for the health of men who can't find other men to date with?... NO...

originally posted by: continuousThunder
Dating is about the connection between two individuals. You meet and you hit it off for various reasons, generally similar interests or views on the world.

Dating is about more than that, it includes procreation, and people's choice on whom to date. Trying to make people feel guilty for not dating x people in simply wrong.

As a matter of fact, one of my ex-girlfriend one day asked me if I would date black women. I told her I would only date certain women, including black women. She immediately claimed "that's racist..." She then told me she would date ANY black man, and that made her not racist. Thankfully our relationship didn't last for other reasons. Here is a little fact about me, there are MANY women of ALL races I would not date. I would not date ANY plastic women, women whom have undergone plastic surgery to make their butts bigger, or their breasts bigger, or their lips bigger. I find those kind of women as too materialistic, and thus prefer "normal and natural women." Of course, I also don't like women who don't shave their legs or underarms. I do like feminine women. Those are my choices, other men have their own choices. But what I decide what for me makes women attractive it doesn't mean I am responsible for the physical or psychological health of those women I would not date. It also does not make me a racist.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
it's like saying you wouldn't date an asian, or a blonde. There are a LOT of people in those subsets and they're all extremely different and going "nah blondes don't do it for me" is extremely reductionist and rude.

Wrong again... First of all, despite all claims from "progressives" trans women ARE NOT WOMEN... Evolution did not make them that way, and evolution did not give them the ability to reproduce as most real women can. Neither others who agree with me, nor myself are responsible for the physical or psychological health of "trans women" because they can't find people to date.

Like the article did you are also trying to make people feel guilty who decide not to date trans women... It doesn't work that way...

Whats more, I am certain that there are trans-women (men who think they are women) whom have not undergone any sex re-assignment surgery and real women have been or are attracted to those "men"... Are those men, who are trans, responsible for the physical or psychological health of those women who are attracted to those men, but the trans men decide not to date those women?... NO...

Are all those "men," who think they are women, rude or prejudiced against women who are attracted to those men who think they are women?... NO...

originally posted by: continuousThunder
Only with trans people it's on a whole extra level because there are SO MANY trans people you'd never even know are trans unless they told you. So to just decide that you won't date any of these people, en masse - yeah that's dehumanising in action right there.

If a trans-woman, or trans-man don't tell their partners/boyfriend or girlfriend that they are trans, they are lying and deceiving them. In fact those trans people who don't tell their partners that they are trans can be sued for lying and deceiving their partners.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
But don't worry, you're not being forced to date trans people. trans people already suffer enough in this world.

Here we go again, another example of trying to shift blame on people who DARE not think as "progressives" do, and try to make us feel bad for what trans-people go through... Going to rain on your parade there... People who decide not to date trans people ARE NOT responsible for what happens to trans people just like heterosexual women are NOT responsible for the health of lesbian women, just like lesbian women are NOT responsible for the health of heterosexual men...

originally posted by: dfnj2015

It seems to me human rights has nothing to do with gender. People should be treated equally with respect regardless of gender or personal beliefs. Otherwise, you would be advocating certain combinations of thought and gender would be okay to discriminate against. As human beings we are all born with the right to live with some shred of dignity.

People should be treated equally, sure when it comes to not shaming them in public and such, but deciding not to date trans people is not infringing in their rights, and it is not shredding their dignity...

Like I wrote in response to another ATS member. Are trans women, men who think they are women and are attracted just to men, shredding the dignity of women who are in love with the trans-women? Are these trans women responsible for the health of women who are in love with the trans-women, yet the trans-women decide not to date these women?

originally posted by: dfnj2015
All humans are equal. Otherwise we will have some form of slavery.

We are also all different, and we all have our own preferences as to whom we are attracted to. This does not "shred the dignity of certain groups we are not attracted to," and neither does it makes us responsible for what happens to those people we are not attracted to...

The entire discussion can be boiled down to "Do you believe psychologists." If the answer is yes, hunt down the transgender of your gender choice and date them intensely so they don't feel bad. Never mind that they won't know anyone is dehumanizing them, they just might figure it out and feel unloved or offended, which means that you will have to pay reparations and then kill yourself. Leave a nice note for the transgender person along with a recording of "Feelings."

If the answer is that you don't believe psychologists/psychobabble and think that since they are running out of topics to write papers about they are desperate and have to make things up to make it look like they are actually the intellectual giants they think they are, you may ignore anything that comes out of their mouths. This is my position, as many years ago when one of my college classmates said "Man, the mind is where it's at" we knew that was code for "I am flunking Organic Chem and will never get to med school or grad school in Bio or Chem, so I am letting my parents down gently. My only hope is a psych degree." Maybe Dr. Phil was in this position.

In my opinion, I'd want to know if I was dating a male that turned female. It would be somewhat devastating if I found out like a year into it that she was lying to me about who she was. I'd feel like I couldn't trust that person anymore and I'd have to get out of that relationship. On the other hand, if I was dating a "woman" who had been open and honest from like the second date, I'd be more inclined to stay in a relationship that is developing through honesty. Then again I've been looking for love for a long long time.

You have entered the twilight zone...

I must be different.

I'd date my sister if she changed gender cause she wouldn't be my sister anymore.

Wait, did that make sense?

a reply to: ketsuko

Why would anyone want to change gender.

Aren't we all equal

a reply to: Ligyron

I'm 28 years old....

This explains much. I'd love to have this conversation again in 25 years...

In the meantime, I will say that women cannot all be lumped together under one label any more than men can. As we live and learn, we grow, and our values -- what we value in life -- changes and grows as well. We learn that all that glitters is not gold, usually the hard way.