Senators get classified briefing on UFO sightings

originally posted by: elysiumfire
There isn't a member on ATS who can confirm the truth of the Tic Tac story. Those who accept the story are taking it on a subjective trust.

We've had stories for decades, but what always seem to be lacking is hard evidence. I've seen the media play one of the videos alongside Fravor as Fravor describes his Tic Tac object encounter, but the Lt who made the video says he's not convinced it's the same object Fravor saw and it doesn't do any of the amazing things that Fravor describes, so at the end of the day all we have is another story, which apparently not all the witnesses agree on either. Fravor and his WSO don't agree on what the object was doing when they first saw it, and Fravor said he was never debriefed but there is a documentary floating around saying he was debriefed, which talks to different witnesses.

So even if one wanted to believe all aspects of the story, how could it even be done with so many details conflicting? So I agree we need to be objective critical thinkers.

originally posted by: Waterglass
Oberg writes that he personally worked with Bigelow. Still pushing ice crystals to explain UFO's . So I ask him as to whether ice crystals in space follow the Fibonacci sequence. HE NEVER GOT BACK TO ME!!!

Does something make you think ice crystals follow the Fibonacci sequence? I don't understand the question and maybe Jim Oberg didn't understand it either.

I've heard Jim Oberg use the term "space dandruff", which could refer to ice particles or other particles. Probably most of the particles seen after a water dump are ice particles. NASA has even graphed how the particle count decays after a water dump:

NASA article on particles associated with Space Shuttles

So that article does refer to ice particles but it doesn't say all particles are ice particles, rather it looks at other sources of particles too. What that graph suggests is right after a water dump there will be a lot of ice particles, but the number declines with time and if you see particles a long time after a water dump, they might be some other kind of particles, besides water. For example opening the cargo bay doors could release some various particles which didn't get fully cleaned out of the cargo bay.

The ice and other particles follow the laws of physics and in orbit this means they usually have orbital motions similar to but not identical to their source, if they came from a spacecraft like the Shuttle for example. But there can be deviations from that orbital motion depending on other influences. There is actually a very very thin atmosphere in low earth orbit so the small particle orbits tend to decay faster than the spacecraft orbit since they are so small and have less momentum, the drag affects them more. That's probably one reason the particle counts decay in the graph above, and another reason could be dispersion. In one video I saw a light flash from a thruster firing and then the particles were influenced by that.

A Fibonacci sequence is a mathematical series of numbers which does not define an orbit, it doesn't define drag, and it doesn't define the effects of a thruster firing as far as I am aware. Ice particles might also move as a result of being illuminated by sunlight, where the illuminated side can sublimate water vapor in one direction and conservation of momentum means the ice particle can be propelled in the opposite direction as a result, though these would generally be subtle motions. But we do observe the Fibonacci sequence in nature quite a bit, though I haven't seen it tied to orbital mechanics as in NASA videos, but if you think you have some evidence that it is, you should present that with your question to give it some context. Do you?

You guys think it could be Russia or China flying black ops over our airspace? Especially since, as mentioned earlier, Iran is heating up and that's probably Russian backed.

No country flies their top secret aircraft over enemy territory

Unless in case of war

I have a friend who is an engineer for some UAV contractors for the military. His job was to do electronic testing of systems in a lab setting. He told me that it was possible to spoof all radar sources into giving false positives and multiple false positives for anything that they wanted the radar to see, as he was doing testing on one of these systems. It works as following. The system receives radar signals, and transmits signals using a steered antenna back to the source of the radar transmitter. It could in this system send a "reflection" through this antenna of what ever shape or aircraft or even groups of aircraft in different locations through transmissions from it's antenna.

It is actually a really simple idea that is a twist on current public knowledge of radar "jamming", where rather than a complete denial of detection, it gives a false return. An example he gave was a UAV or even a missile could have this system on it and make it appear to a radar operator that an entire fleet of B52s was on its way to a location, or it could be used to make a wing of helicopters looks like a flock of migratory birds. What ever was needed to appear, could be made to appear on radar.

Take this for what you wish, but using radar as a source of info can be and is poor data due to this technology existing. For a civilian contractor to have access to this two years ago likely means that this tech has existed for a lot longer than two years. Furthermore older radar systems were likely easier to spoof in this fashion due to less finesse in their capacity to detect things.

a reply to: beetee

I will stick with Greenewald. Ice crystals! He said it not me after he refuted in writing here on ATS what his working Billionaire co-worker said on 60 Minutes. So how do we know the this is the real Jim Oberg on ATS? Pretty basic question for someone at NASA in his position isn't it? So if your going to run around saying ice crystals what is there geometric shape in space? Same as on earth? So here's a snippet:

Abstract In this paper we introduce a family of infinite words that generalize the Fibonacci word and we study their combinatorial properties. We associate with this family of words a family of curves that are like the Fibonacci word fractal and reveal some fractal features. Finally, we describe an infinite family of polyominoes stems from the generalized Fibonacci words and we study some of their geometric properties, such as perimeter and area. These last polyominoes generalize the Fibonacci snowflake and they are double squares polyominoes, i.e., tile the plane by translation in exactly two distinct ways.

Does something make you think ice crystals follow the Fibonacci sequence? I don't understand the question and maybe Jim Oberg didn't understand it either.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Nice presentation but my question was NOT about thrust, orbit, etc. Do ice crystals in outer space follow the Fibonacci sequence as found in nature as on Earth. Simple question Yes or NO? Case in point and see below:

Back in the day I worked along side with another engineer who challenged NASA on their O ring specification for use in life support breathing regulators SCBA for their firefighters here on earth. We had been awarded a contact from them. This is early 1980's before the KABOOM days. He even wrote them that in his opine their design was flawed and it will not seal under certain conditions. He presented an alternate design which was our standard. He showed me the documentation. He was furious over what happened with the shuttle and this conversation he is having with me was back in 1996.

NASA he said wrote back and told him go to pound salt so we manufactured the SCBA regulators per NASA specifications, procedures and drawings and shipped them. So several months later guess who calls. You Betcha and they are bitching that the Bottles are loosing pressure and breathable air. So I guess they came to some sort of an arrangement that accepted this Professional Engineer and PADI Master Scuba Divers opine.

Point being is that even NASA isn't always perfect and if that guy cant answer a basic Yes or No question it reeks of shall we say a conspiracy as whom responded may not be the real Jim Oberg?

DENY IGNORANCE and lets do this

a reply to: spiritualarchitect

So did this one. Lake Superior and Minnesota are kind of in the same woods:

Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:03:52 GMT From: Fran Ridge Subject: Astronaut Deke Slayton's UFO Encounter, 5 mi. SE of Hastings, MN, Dec. 12, 1951 Cat: 11

Deke Slayton NASA

originally posted by: danbuter
No way we can beat someone with interstellar travel in a real war.

Ummm... excuse me, but I think we already have:



Oh... wait... never mind...

Sometimes the comments section can be quite funny and at other times revealing.

From celtys: the Senators dead serious about this link.

"Started in 1908, was taken over by US Army Air Corps after WWI, then the US Air Force upon their creation in 1947. So the US had been investigating UFOs for literally generations."
~ tbiadvice

Grand Falls crash was 1865?
Aurora crash was 1897.
Cape Girardeau was 1941.

But according to tbiadvice, it was Tunguska in 1908 that first made the US take it seriously.

Which would be because eyewitness said the object stopped descending and began to rise up before descending again. Meaning a controlled flight craft.

a reply to: spiritualarchitect

You are on safari, arguing over the #ing butterflies in the trees behind you while an elephant herd passes right in front of you. (Lol)

The privatization of UFO research and actual space exploration started two decades or more ago and is now almost complete. Why???

The disclosures are happening now, nothing is by accident why?

originally posted by: IMSAM
No country flies their top secret aircraft over enemy territory
Unless in case of war

Well, technically, unless there's a war, we don't really have any "enemies." We have competitors, maybe.

a reply to: Jackfish28

I can only describe it as a area that was rectangular maybe a few hundred yards wide and maybe 600-800 yards long were the water was being blasted by Strong wind. The water was basically 2-3 foot seas with tops being blown off the waves, (white caps) and moved across the glassy gulf about 10-15 mph.

Looks like you observed a USO/UAP.... very cool.

a reply to: Jackfish28

You are one of the few that actually make any sense on this forum.
Welcome!

originally posted by: celltypespecific
a reply to: Jackfish28

You are one of the few that actually make any sense on this forum.

Which, ironically, does not include yourself. Since you bring it up, I feel obliged to say that you seem to be one of the few people on this forum who changes their mind from unquestioning cheerleader to thoughtful open-minded sceptic every other day, if not hour.

Seriously - you're either Dr Jekyll, Tom Delonge, or it seems more than one person is operating your account. You may not even be aware of it, so I think you need to work out what's going on and who has access to it. Maybe the more tech-minded ATS mods can help out with that issue, especially since your account is flooding multiple threads with multiple personalities, confusing everybody.

After all, remember TFT's "roommate" hijacking his ATS account in 2007.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I sincerely apologize for triggering you confusedbrit.....
I have never attacked anyone on this forum.

Anyhow I truly wish you the best in life. Have a wonderful night

Lets try to emanante positive loving energy.

EPISODE 4 was/is TRULY AMAZING!!!!!

Thank-you Chris Mellon thank you Big Lue!!!!

To all my skeptical brothers and sisters please watch episode 4 of unidentified...it was truly well done.

New interview of Bob Lazar!
1.2 mln viewers for 2 days!!!
Something is coming SOON!

Did the ET stop the war with Iran?

a reply to: 2012newstart




Did you ever visit backwater africa to stop a war between chimpanzee communities?or feuding macaques from going at each other?

originally posted by: Waterglass
So first an article appears that Trump was briefed on UFOS and now Politico comes out with this. You can read about it here.

Politico

Three more U.S. senators received a classified Pentagon briefing on Wednesday about a series of reported encounters by the Navy with unidentified aircraft, according to congressional and government officials — part of a growing number of requests from members of key oversight committees

Well in my opine whats hot right now in the UFO world are the pulsating flashing orange objects as I will call them. I also say that the pulsating flashing is a countermeasure utilized by the object to cause blurry, grainy and out of focus pictures and video similar to the USA military used Yehudi lights in WWII.

They have been seen all over the world and most recently over Lake Superior in the same region where back in the day; 1953 an Air Force Pilot went missing chasing something on radar.

First Lieutenant Felix Eugene Moncla Jr. was a United States Air Force pilot who disappeared while performing an air defense intercept over Lake Superior in 1953. This is sometimes known as the Kinross Incident, after Kinross Air Force Base, where Moncla was on temporary assignment when he disappeared.

So why I say the orange objects are hot is my opine that based on my interaction with MUFON and at their request I am sending all of my videos on the pulsating flashing orange objects that I have witnessed this Spring 2019 to them for analysis and investigation.

I also think that something is up with the US Navy as they are the ones to kind of come forward. Whether you know it or not not all government agencies play nice in the sandbox. I remember back in the day when NCIS and DCIS was at the Pentagon requesting documentation that NAVSEA was withholding from their criminal investigation. Yep desks were flipped over and guns were drawn and aimed.

Hay good morning!

Come on sheeple. This never happened for several reasons:

1. There are no pictures of the briefing.
2. This is a distraction from ______________ (just fill in the blank)
3. It's just fake news.
4. They are really being briefed on drones, Chinese lanterns and other "prosaic" explanations (lol, I just had to throw that word into the works).
5. It's Russia or China. Yeah, that's it. They have outstripped our technology by hundreds of years and have mastered and overcome what we think we know about physics. It's THEM! Run! Hide! There are no aliens--just Russians!

For the slower among us, all of that is sarcasm. We're closer to disclosure than ever before and we still have debunkers coming up with "creative" reasons why it just isn't so -- we really aren't being visited/invaded/watched by other-worldly beings because there are more rational explanations. What these pinheads don't seem to get is that the only rational explanation that fits is alien (for lack of a better word) visitation. Or, at minimum, it is at least as rational as any of the incredibly desperate and lame explanations given by mainstream science.