New York Bans WHAT?

originally posted by: TheRedneck
Hell, in Thailand the "lady-boys" are accepted and expected!

That exclamation point usage... you certainly seem enthusiastic about that statement.

This is why I'm glad I didn't travel much outside of the rural parts of the US back in my single years. It's a far simpler and more healthy lifestyle... sane, even.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

That sounds highly unfair and comes across as victim blaming. Like LGBT can't be themselves because people will murder them?

No, it's not victim blaming. It's simply stating that if one purposely does things that anger or entice others enough, especially for the express purpose of angering or enticing others, others will get angry or be enticed right back. That's called 'life' and it's not something you or anyone else can change. To use your example, if the woman is walking around in public without clothes flirting with and and telling every man she sees how good she is in bed, guess what? Someone will try to accommodate her!

It would be wonderful to live in a world where a woman could do that and still be safe, but it's just not reality yet, and probably won't be for quite some time. For now I'll settle for the fact that if she is dressed, she should be safe.

Are you claiming that LGBT folks are incapable of "being themselves" without dancing in the streets in their underwear and simulating sex acts in public that make others uncomfortable? Can they "be themselves" while engaging in two-way debate and communication with others? I never thought they were so unable to exercise self-control... I always figured they were capable of exercising the same type of restraint anyone else could. Your comment sounds pretty bigoted to me.

TheRedneck

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Not enthusiastic... just driving home a point. I've never been to Thailand (and likely never will go). I do happen to have an interest in how other cultures compare to ours.

You read a lot into a grammatical symbol.

TheRedneck

How would such a manor of defense have ever been acceptable? Disturbing at the least.

a reply to: TheRedneck

The gay panic defence has been used in the UK, I remember a few controversial cases in the eighties. One being where a straight bloke killed a lesbian he was friends with during a drinking session iirc.

Isn't this bill supposed to stop this from being able to happen?
To stop people from being able to use this defense?

Not the other way around?

I think the OP is confused

absolutely brilliant how, in this thread about how laws are changing so you can't kill a trans person and just get away with it anymore, heaps and heaps of posters are talking about how they'd love to beat up trans women.

anyone feeling the irony here? god damn this is a special thread.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
absolutely brilliant how, in this thread about how laws are changing so you can't kill a trans person and just get away with it anymore, heaps and heaps of posters are talking about how they'd love to beat up trans women.

anyone feeling the irony here? god damn this is a special thread.

So what are you just a troll?

Cuz over in the other thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

you was just defending the dehumanization of transgenders with crazy opinions and theories

a reply to: continuousThunder

heaps and heaps of posters are talking about how they'd love to beat up trans women.

Care to point out where that has happened? I see "heaps and heaps" of people saying they don't want to be tricked into a homosexual encounter by a trans "woman"... not exactly the same thing.

TheRedneck

a reply to: DustybudzZ

Isn't this bill supposed to stop this from being able to happen?
To stop people from being able to use this defense?

Yes, it is.

I think the OP is confused

Yes, I said I was... over why this law is even needed. I find it preposterous that anyone would even try to use such a ridiculous defense to support an unwarranted and repugnant act like murder.

I think you're confused.

TheRedneck

a reply to: DustybudzZ

i was most definitely not defending trans people being dehumanised and it bewilders me how you could get that from what i wrote, felt like i made it pretty goshing clear i feel the exact opposite.

also those "crazy opinions and theories" are facts soooo

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: DustybudzZ

Isn't this bill supposed to stop this from being able to happen?
To stop people from being able to use this defense?

Yes, it is.

I think the OP is confused

Yes, I said I was... over why this law is even needed. I find it preposterous that anyone would even try to use such a ridiculous defense to support an unwarranted and repugnant act like murder.

I think you're confused.

TheRedneck

Nope not confused just misunderstood what you was saying in your confusing OP

originally posted by: continuousThunder
a reply to: DustybudzZ

i was most definitely not defending trans people being dehumanised and it bewilders me how you could get that from what i wrote, felt like i made it pretty goshing clear i feel the exact opposite.

also those "crazy opinions and theories" are facts soooo

Sorry didn't mean for it to sound like that I was saying you was defending the dehumanization of transgenders

what i ment was you were defending transgenders

And how are they facts?? It is no fact that just because someone does not have the desire to date the opposite sex or any LBGT people they are then dehumanizing transgenders?

Your nutz

Might want to change your wording about going redneck on their rear.....

Anyway. Sometimes when people go redneck in nyc....they go to far...

Your drunk as hell, some dude is pretending he is a chick, then later that night you grab a handful of nutsack..

The anger that ensues is a natural response to many who are usually non violent people

a reply to: TheRedneck

I'm saying you are being highly hyperbolic and are victim blaming. Like this:

Are you claiming that LGBT folks are incapable of "being themselves" without dancing in the streets in their underwear and simulating sex acts in public that make others uncomfortable? Can they "be themselves" while engaging in two-way debate and communication with others? I never thought they were so unable to exercise self-control... I always figured they were capable of exercising the same type of restraint anyone else could. Your comment sounds pretty bigoted to me.

Tells me you've never been to a Pride event before. I've gone to two this month and haven't seen a single person "dancing in the streets in their underwear and simulating sex acts".

ETA: Oh I just noticed you called me bigoted too. WOW. I'm trying to be polite, hold my tongue and not title you that despite your questionable post here; but if you are going to call me bigoted for no #ing reason then the gloves are going to come off. You are being a homophobe/transphobe by accusing the lgbt community of being at fault for being murdered

No, it's not victim blaming. It's simply stating that if one purposely does things that anger or entice others enough, especially for the express purpose of angering or enticing others, others will get angry or be enticed right back.

No. You are horribly wrong. Killing, hell even assaulting, someone because you found out they were gay or trans is NOT the fault of the person who is gay or trans. That is severely intolerant and is victim blaming. Especially considering the rest of your post where you make up wholesale how the greater lgbt community behaves.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

why do you try to distance yourself from the term gay? If you are a man, who wants to be a woman, are you attracted to men? If not, would you consider yourself to be lesbian? It really doesn't seem to work both ways. A dude who wants dudes= gay. Even if one wears a dress. If you are happy, super, but why deny it?

a reply to: network dude

What are you talking about? Like I'm 100% confused as to what you are getting at and why. Distance myself from the term gay? How does that have anything to do with the gay or trans panic defense and my response to The Redneck? It's like you just invented this conversation in your head and assigned my part of it for me.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Tells me you've never been to a Pride event before. I've gone to two this month and haven't seen a single person "dancing in the streets in their underwear and simulating sex acts".

Nope, not my thing. I've seen clips on TV and YouTube, though. Are those fake? If they are, why aren't you attacking the news and YouTube?

Oh I just noticed you called me bigoted too. WOW. I'm trying to be polite, hold my tongue and not title you that despite your questionable post here

No, you're not. You specifically called me bigoted, when every single post I have made in this thread has railed against the "gay panic/trans-panic" defense, because I consider these people as human as you or I.

You, on the other hand, seem to believe that certain activities outside the acceptable range of behavior are just too much to expect of gays and trans. Yes, that's bigoted.

You are being a homophobe/transphobe by accusing the lgbt community of being at fault for being murdered

Take yer gloves off, hot shot. See if I care. I'm not afraid of anyone. You do realize that's what a "phobe" is, right? A fear. No, I'm homo-apathetic and trans-apathetic... I don't care. Just don't try to pull me into your little delusion.

Killing, hell even assaulting, someone because you found out they were gay or trans is NOT the fault of the person who is gay or trans.

Dude, that is what I have been saying this whole damn thread! You seem to want to convince me of something I wrote in the OP.

What I said was that some members of the LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ community (and that's not a dig; the acronym changes so often I never know what it is today) want to tick off everyone else and create the climate that can lead to intolerance. A person who falsely advertises their gender in the search for a sexual partner is also setting themselves up for trouble... do they think the other person is not going to notice? Or maybe that they suddenly won't care that they are in bed with someone who is completely incompatible with their whole intent? That doesn't mean they should be killed, as I have stated numerous times, but it does put them in a compromised position that invites anger. Actions have consequences.

Now, you just let me know when you get those gloves off... if you like, I'll even open a new thread in the Mud Pit just for you.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Krazysh0t
Nope, not my thing. I've seen clips on TV and YouTube, though. Are those fake? If they are, why aren't you attacking the news and YouTube?

Because I'm talking to you, not them. Also, as an ATS user I'm sure you're aware of how biased the media can be and how EXTREMELY biased Youtube is. So I really hope you aren't using either of those sources as the norm.

No, you're not. You specifically called me bigoted, when every single post I have made in this thread has railed against the "gay panic/trans-panic" defense, because I consider these people as human as you or I.

Care to quote where I specifically called you bigoted? I recall labeling your opinion unfair and something that sounded like victim blaming, but I never used the word bigot until you brought it into the conversation. Hell I haven't even used the less spiked word, intolerant, either. So I welcome you to go through my posts in this thread and find the quote where I called you bigoted or even just intolerant. Maybe cut out the persecution complex you have on display here and actually read my posts?

You, on the other hand, seem to believe that certain activities outside the acceptable range of behavior are just too much to expect of gays and trans. Yes, that's bigoted.

Um... No. For one, bigoted against what? What group of people is that intolerant against? For two, your hyperbole and strawmans don't justify my opinions. Gay and trans people act normal all the time. I'm wearing a collared women's shirt and jeggings at work right now. It's very conservative casual. I'm not wearing chapless jeans or some other slutty #.

FURTHERMORE, its not like straight culture isn't overran with people half naked all the time either when they are celebrating. Fun fact: I've seen more nakedness at music festivals than I've ever seen at Pride festivals. Music festivals are damn near 100% straight people too. You're just making up a problem and then calling me bigoted when I don't agree with your strawman.

Take yer gloves off, hot shot. See if I care. I'm not afraid of anyone. You do realize that's what a "phobe" is, right? A fear. No, I'm homo-apathetic and trans-apathetic... I don't care. Just don't try to pull me into your little delusion.

Oh stop. The phobe only equals fear thing is so stupid. If you haven't realized by now that a phobe describes more than just people who fear that group of people like people who also hate or are intolerant of them then you are foolish. This is honestly just a semantics cop out. Intolerance is intolerance and it still makes you an intolerant and bigoted asshole whether you accept the label of a phobe or not.

Dude, that is what I have been saying this whole damn thread! You seem to want to convince me of something I wrote in the OP.

Yet you defended punching gay people when finding out they were gay and basically said that gay people have to act straight all the time or you'll attack them. Just because it isn't murder, doesn't make it ok to hit someone even in the bedroom.

What I said was that some members of the LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ community (and that's not a dig; the acronym changes so often I never know what it is today)

# you. It is DEFINITELY a dig. Making up an insulting acronym then saying it isn't a dig because you can't be bothered to learn what the actual acronym even is doesn't acquit you of being offensive in your words. Hell that actually comes off as MORE patronizing then less. If you wanted to be respectful you'd just say LGBTQ+ or GSRM (gender, sexuality, romantic minorities)

want to tick off everyone else and create the climate that can lead to intolerance. A person who falsely advertises their gender in the search for a sexual partner is also setting themselves up for trouble... do they think the other person is not going to notice? Or maybe that they suddenly won't care that they are in bed with someone who is completely incompatible with their whole intent? That doesn't mean they should be killed, as I have stated numerous times, but it does put them in a compromised position that invites anger. Actions have consequences.

Funny how you are the one doing the "ticking off" here as a cishet by making up reasons why it is ok to assault people (even though physical assault is ALWAYS illegal). Furthermore, you are spreading the "trap" fallacy that gets a lot of trans people killed; which then goes on to get the trans panic defense invoked in court. Trans people aren't going around tricking people to find a mate. They want love just as much as the next person and denying that by attacking them because you are offended by a penis is rather #ed up. It's people like you that make me fear dating as a trans person.

Now, you just let me know when you get those gloves off... if you like, I'll even open a new thread in the Mud Pit just for you.

TheRedneck

Oh they are #ing off, hun. Also, do you. I don't care what you do. You can even get another mod to delete this post for all I care. You are no ally of lgbt and being against the bare minimum of hate against lgbt people by being against murdering them but being ok about assaulting and even demeaning them (see the acronym dig you made earlier) doesn't make you a supporter either.

Meh.

I disagree with this law. I think the government should stay out of what people can use as a defense.

Let them make their claim and put on their case. The jury of 12 have to buy into it and if they don't, it will quickly put an end to that as a very viable defense.

It's like "Temporary Insanity". You can use it as a defense, but you rarely win when you do and even then there are often other stipulations to it.

Don't take me out of context though. This is not the kind of thing someone should be murdered over, but given that our society is fragmented like it is and so divided with hate, I''m not really surprised people do get killed over this and even smaller things.

And I also think there are a number of things that courts should allow, but don't. I understand it has to be a very controlled environment and such, but sometimes that also makes it ripe for abuse.