Trying to resolve 9/11

a reply to: MoonMine

Funny. The collapse of the twin towers stated on the floors of the jet impacts that would have removed your overly complicated mechanisms. The twin towers started with bowing under thermal stress and load, and not cut columns. With the collapse breaking floor connections. Not cut columns with any sign of molten cuts.



WTC 5 proves floor connection failures from thermal stress was very possible. Enough floor connections broke along a WTC 7 vertical column it lost lateral support and buckled.

originally posted by: MoonMine
Can simple Thermate cut steel columns?

I guess it can!

If an amateur can achieve these results imagine what pros can do.

The above overly complicated mechanismS would have been made useless by the wide spread fires of WTC 7. And the debris damage from the twin towers.

Many of the columns in WTC 7 where open for all to see in its office environment. Or covered with tight fitting enclosures. (The whole maximize rentable space) No reports of strange devices installed on columns.

These devices would have been degraded by fires. They burn to slow and inconsistent to make WTC 7 collapse as claimed by the truth movement.

There is no indication of flashing, sparking, spraying of molten metal of vertical columns right at the windows of WTC 7

There was no indication of cut columns in the pile of WTC 7

a reply to: MoonMine

Sooooo....

Nobody witnessed the installation of overly complicated mechanisms on the columns in buildings where rental space was a premium.

With no way the mechanisms would survive the wide spread fires and damage from being hit with twin towers debris.

And how many thermite charges are you claiming actuated like the one pictured below?



With no indication such charges actuated on every column on every floor as pushed by the truth movement to achieve the witnessed collapse speed. Especially from the exterior columns right at the WTC 7 windows?

With no indication the steel at the WTC was exposed to temps at which thermite burns.

With the majority of the truth movement claiming the fires at the WTC were never hotter than normal office fires. So I guess there is no evidence that hundreds of thermite initiated fires actuated. Love it when the truth movement contradicts itself.

And the video shows steel from the WTC heavily corroded from sitting in a toxic chemical soup for months. Not steel cut by thermite. The WTC steel doesn’t match the cuts and slagging in the video. So your using a video using false arguments?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: kloejen

Ha.


Or individuals could model WTC 7 now. With strong support that fire related collapse was the cause.

Kostack Studio

WTC7 Simulation Evaluation - World Trade Center 7 Collapse Research Study
m.youtube.com...

Fracture Simulation Case Study of Progressive Collapse
m.youtube.com...

Or show Hulsey’s model is full of crap

Kostack Studio

UAF WTC 7 Evaluation Simulation Plausibility Check (Leroy Hulsey, AE911Truth)
m.youtube.com...

The free fall is the smoking gun of 9/11.  The community of debunkers are not smart enough to notice it. 

NIST computer finite model predicted 5.4 seconds in the draft and still there in the official report about the collapse of the seventeen floors. 

Reality is the 17 stories that collapsed roughly took about 3.5 to 4 seconds.  They've messed up everywhere, NIST. 

NIST even said 17 stories underwent no free fall based on a single data point.  They have stuck to this 5.4 prediction still, but even that's wrong, along with the negligible support claim. 

In Aug 2008 they defended their 5.4 prediction was based on 40 less time for free fall!

 People in 9/11 debunker community need to wake up. 

a reply to: Hulseyreport

The free fall is the smoking gun of 9/11. The community of debunkers are not smart enough to notice it.

What free fall. From the first sign of collapse initiation, WTC 1, WTC 2, WTC 7 all collapsed slower and in a longer time period than if the buildings actually collapsed at the rate of acceleration by gravity through the whole collapse.

Only WTC 7 experienced a very short period of free fall acceleration on the second phase of the faced collapse after the internal East to West progressive collapse of the core. With strong evidence the facade for a short time accelerated faster than the rate of gravity, showing the internal collapse was placing the facade under tension.

Again.

Nobody witnessed the installation of overly complicated mechanisms on the columns in buildings where rental space was a premium.

With no way the mechanisms would survive the wide spread fires and damage from being hit with twin towers debris.

And how many thermite charges are you claiming actuated like the one pictured below?



With no indication such charges actuated on every column on every floor as pushed by the truth movement to achieve the witnessed collapse speed. Especially from the exterior columns right at the WTC 7 windows?

With no indication the steel at the WTC was exposed to temps at which thermite burns.

With the majority of the truth movement claiming the fires at the WTC were never hotter than normal office fires. So I guess there is no evidence that hundreds of thermite initiated fires actuated. Love it when the truth movement contradicts itself.

And the video shows steel from the WTC heavily corroded from sitting in a toxic chemical soup for months. Not steel cut by thermite. The WTC steel doesn’t match the cuts and slagging in the video. So your using a video using false arguments?

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You literally only have you don’t understand the facade of WTC 7 was under tension and / or the facade columns once buckled from overloading only offered negligible resistance during the second phase of the facade collapse.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You literally only have you don’t understand the facade of WTC 7 was under tension and / or the facade columns once buckled from overloading only offered negligible resistance during the second phase of the facade collapse.

What will take for you to get the fine details and implications of what happened?
NIST stated in 2008 there 5.4 second collapse time was based on the collapse of the first seventeen floors!

. There finite progressive collapse model predicted the 5.4 second time. It too slow for free fall to have occurred.

What did in their final report, is add in freefall and bluffed the collapse of seventeen stories still took 5.4 seconds! 

The collapse of seventeen stories was much faster and occurred in about 3.5 to 4 seconds. The slower time in the first prediction is why they ruled out free fall in Aug 2008!  Their computer model could not account for the faster time .

Think of this way.
Remember 3.9 seconds or less for the collapse of seventeen floors for there to be freefall
NIST model the collapse took 5.4 seconds both in the draft and final paper. 

5.4 second model also ruled out freefall because there was structural resistance underneath preventing freefall and none of the failures was fast and instant. 

a reply to: Hulseyreport

What does a report not many people like have to do with there being zero evidence of columns being cut at the WTC?

The only thing you have is the misrepresentation of report that admits to being a best guess.


Now. Can you address there is no video, audio, seismic, physical evidence that columns were cut by explosives/pyrotechnics at the WTC. None.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

Your talking about a document when I am asking of evidence from the actual recorded event. Seems you want to focus on spin of items on paper while I want to discuss the actual recorded event.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You have a proven history of using items out of context. Or you flat out cannot comprehend a technical document. Anyway. Your false arguments are well documented. Why are you fixated on a report? That you cherry pick what is false or credible. While ignoring the actual video, audio, seismic, physical evidence?

Can you address....

What free fall. From the first sign of collapse initiation, WTC 1, WTC 2, WTC 7 all collapsed slower and in a longer time period than if the buildings actually collapsed at the rate of acceleration by gravity through the whole collapse.

Only WTC 7 experienced a very short period of free fall acceleration on the second phase of the faced collapse after the internal East to West progressive collapse of the core. With strong evidence the facade for a short time accelerated faster than the rate of gravity, showing the internal collapse was placing the facade under tension.

Again.

Nobody witnessed the installation of overly complicated mechanisms on the columns in buildings where rental space was a premium.

With no way the mechanisms would survive the wide spread fires and damage from being hit with twin towers debris.

And how many thermite charges are you claiming actuated like the one pictured below?



With no indication such charges actuated on every column on every floor as pushed by the truth movement to achieve the witnessed collapse speed. Especially from the exterior columns right at the WTC 7 windows?

With no indication the steel at the WTC was exposed to temps at which thermite burns.

With the majority of the truth movement claiming the fires at the WTC were never hotter than normal office fires. So I guess there is no evidence that hundreds of thermite initiated fires actuated. Love it when the truth movement contradicts itself.

And the video shows steel from the WTC heavily corroded from sitting in a toxic chemical soup for months. Not steel cut by thermite. The WTC steel doesn’t match the cuts and slagging in the video. So your using a video using false arguments?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

What does a report not many people like have to do with there being zero evidence of columns being cut at the WTC?

The only thing you have is the misrepresentation of report that admits to being a best guess.


Now. Can you address there is no video, audio, seismic, physical evidence that columns were cut by explosives/pyrotechnics at the WTC. None.

NIST claim is the columns were buckling and crushing due to fire.. They mapped that scenario.
There finite model predicted a slower time of 5.4 seconds for the collapse of seventeen floors they could see on video.

The faster time in reality means some other "energy" removing the columns at a faster rate.
It just logic. 

Freefall is evidence of controlled demolition.

 

a reply to: Hulseyreport

I claim this.

Only WTC 7 experienced a very short period of free fall acceleration on the second phase of the faced collapse after the internal East to West progressive collapse of the core. With strong evidence the facade for a short time accelerated faster than the rate of gravity, showing the internal collapse was placing the facade under tension.


You claimed the speed at which the WTC 7 facade achieved during its collapse, after the collapse of the WTC 7 core, was from columns being actively cut. Is that false.

This is where you state how many of the facade columns had how many charges placed on them. Then you post evidence of that number of stated charges actuating from the video, seismic, audio, photographic evidence.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

The faster time in reality means some other "energy" removing the columns at a faster rate.
It just logic.

Or the simultaneous buckling of the facade vertical columns from being overload and placed under tension by the collapsed core.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

The faster time in reality means some other "energy" removing the columns at a faster rate.
It just logic.

Or the simultaneous buckling of the facade vertical columns from being overload and placed under tension by the collapsed core.

I don't think you get it still.

Buckling of the exterior and core columns was considered by NIST and they'd still claimed it took 5.4 seconds for the seventeen floors to fall.


Their model could not come up with a fire related cause for free fall, that's telling. 

NIST instead of admitting it, added in free fall in the revised report and claimed the free fall was occurring during their 5.4 second fall. They still not admitting the collapse was faster.

The 5.4 time slower time was the reason they stated there was support underneath during the fall, in the first place. They even admitted on video in Aug 2008 that freefall of seventeen stories would be roughly 3.9 seconds based on their view, but their model predicted 5.4 seconds.

NIST is using a model to predict the rate of collapse and ignoring the real time videos of the collapse.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

The faster time in reality means some other "energy" removing the columns at a faster rate.
It just logic.

Or the simultaneous buckling of the facade vertical columns from being overload and placed under tension by the collapsed core.

I don't think you get it still.

Buckling of the exterior and core columns was considered by NIST and they'd still claimed it took 5.4 seconds for the seventeen floors to fall.


Their model could not come up with a fire related cause for free fall, that's telling. 

NIST instead of admitting it, added in free fall in the revised report and claimed the free fall was occurring during their 5.4 second fall. They still not admitting the collapse was faster.

The 5.4 time slower time was the reason they stated there was support underneath during the fall, in the first place. They even admitted on video in Aug 2008 that freefall of seventeen stories would be roughly 3.9 seconds based on their view, but their model predicted 5.4 seconds.

NIST is using a model to predict the rate of collapse and ignoring the real time videos of the collapse.

This website very laggy and buffers a lot, need to upgrade the server bandwidth. Find it hard to log in sometimes.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

Your post BS because you don’t have evidence of cut columns.

Again.


I claim this.

Only WTC 7 experienced a very short period of free fall acceleration on the second phase of the faced collapse after the internal East to West progressive collapse of the core. With strong evidence the facade for a short time accelerated faster than the rate of gravity, showing the internal collapse was placing the facade under tension.


You claimed the speed at which the WTC 7 facade achieved during its collapse, after the collapse of the WTC 7 core, was from columns being actively cut. Is that false.

This is where you state how many of the facade columns had how many charges placed on them. Then you post evidence of that number of stated charges actuating from the video, seismic, audio, photographic evidence.

The actuation of numerous charges that should look like the below.




Do you have any evidence that columns were actively cut? Any? Or you just full of BS?

a reply to: neutronflux

Again

What exactly am I lying about?

Your claim:

Are a major portion of vertical columns still standing after the complete collapse of the floor system. Yes.

And NIST's (you keep parroting):

Just Incase you missed it,” significant portions of the cores of both buildings (roughly 60 stories of WTC 1 and 40 stories of WTC 2) are known to have stood 15 to 25 seconds after collapse initiation before they, too, began to collapse.”

"From video evidence" as it says in the NIST FAQ question 11.

NIST must have the evidence then for this "significant portions of the cores of both buildings"-claim we have not seen. Or is up to your 4 out of 47 core columns as a major part/significant by NIST?

a reply to: neutronflux

The above overly complicated mechanismS would have been made useless by the wide spread fires of WTC 7. And the debris damage from the twin towers.

Jonathan set off simply to prove or disprove these claims:

1. Can Thermitic material melt steel?
2. Can it cut steel horizontally or vertically
3. Does it take massive quentities to do any damage?

A proof of concept, literally backyard-feasible.

He tested all this with thermate, not thermite nor Nano-thermite.

Can you cite the ignition temperatures for each? Just so we can rule them out as useless.

a reply to: democracydemo

Sigh.

Quote were I ever said that thermite cannot cut steel.

And its possible interdenominational Sasquatches hyper jumped into 7, pulled apart floor connections. Then hyper jumped out at the onset of collapse. Debunk that argument. It’s more close to the video, audio, photographic, seismic evidence than explosives/pyrotechnics.

So you have no actual proof of any columns cut by thermite.

Now. Can you address what I have actually argued.


. Can you address....

What free fall. From the first sign of collapse initiation, WTC 1, WTC 2, WTC 7 all collapsed slower and in a longer time period than if the buildings actually collapsed at the rate of acceleration by gravity through the whole collapse.

Only WTC 7 experienced a very short period of free fall acceleration on the second phase of the faced collapse after the internal East to West progressive collapse of the core. With strong evidence the facade for a short time accelerated faster than the rate of gravity, showing the internal collapse was placing the facade under tension.

Again.

Nobody witnessed the installation of overly complicated mechanisms on the columns in buildings where rental space was a premium.

With no way the mechanisms would survive the wide spread fires and damage from being hit with twin towers debris.

And how many thermite charges are you claiming actuated like the one pictured below?



With no indication such charges actuated on every column on every floor as pushed by the truth movement to achieve the witnessed collapse speed. Especially from the exterior columns right at the WTC 7 windows?

With no indication the steel at the WTC was exposed to temps at which thermite burns.

With the majority of the truth movement claiming the fires at the WTC were never hotter than normal office fires. So I guess there is no evidence that hundreds of thermite initiated fires actuated. Love it when the truth movement contradicts itself.

And the video shows steel from the WTC heavily corroded from sitting in a toxic chemical soup for months. Not steel cut by thermite. The WTC steel doesn’t match the cuts and slagging in the video. So your using a video using false arguments?

a reply to: democracydemo

However comma. You do understand thermite cuts relativity slowly. And is used to weld metals too. If you do a vertical cut under load with no kicker charge to misaligned the vertical columns. The molten edges would just press together under load. Resulting in at least a cold welding of the different ends together.