David Icke explains the Trans agenda

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

So you think the NHS should pay for hormone treatment and surgery to appease someone who is delusional?

I agree they need medical help but not feeding their inability to accept the body they were born with.

If i wanted to transition into a dog, should the NHS be responsible and start genetic research into growing me a tail?

As I said I think what is best should be decided by medical professionals who have actually examined the person and the person themselves.

That seems a better method than anonymous online posters on a conspiracy web site deciding.

You mean those who can ensure a continuous income from counseling, prescriptions, surgeries, kickbacks, etcetera ? I think I would rather trust in the real scientists of biology. Who reach their conclusions by actual scientific data and long-term studies.

Since the original post was in regard the NHS you might want to understand how NHS doctors get paid before making such an ill informed post.

There are many doctors and psychologists who say Transgenderism is a 'mental' symptom and surgery and meds are not needed nor helpful.

Link to google search

There are pages and pages of links to show that there is a great divide in the professional fields.

There is divide over lots treatments for lots of conditions and what us the best option for one case may not be in another.

Again why the decision is best made by medical professionals who are actually examining the patient.

Unless you also think you some how know better based on a Google search?

If you are not a physician or psychologist currently or in the past treated a transgender patient, then I would say you have obviously shown your own biased ignorance in this debate. Since you believe your opinion holds more weight than others.

I have said, maybe 4 times now, that I believe that medical decisions should be made by medical professionals who have actually examined the patient.

You and some other internet experts on here seem to think you can recommend treatment for people you have never even met.

I would therefore respectfully suggest you are talking out your arse.

I sourced a google link packed full of links for you to read from real doctors and psychologists who are or have actually treated transgender patients. So, no I am actually researching and trying to deny ignorance.

You Googled stuff.

Guess that does major you more qualified than the doctors actually treating transgender people.

I apologize that I must have missed where you shared that you were so qualified in this thread. Please share your professional experience with me and ATS, so that we can understand your reasoning.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: ScepticScot
a reply to: Artemis12

Okay, it's all bullocks.
----------------------------------

For those who want to know the truth, don't take my word for it or anyone's word for it. Never get all your information in one place. And always do your own due diligence.

It's known as "gender affirmation" treatment, under an "informed consent" model of treatment, wherein a patient can decline mental health services/counseling/diagnosis of gender dysphoria, etc. Puberty blockers are recommended based upon "Tanner Stages," basically pubertal development as opposed to chronological age.

It's easy enough to look up some of the gender clinics around the country, and go to their websites and see when they recommend starting puberty blockers.

Check out "WPATH", the "Endocrine Society", "Mermaids", "Tavistock"... find out from them if and when they recommend puberty blockers for kids.

Also check out "Transgendertrend," "4th Wave Now," and "Pique Resilience Project" to hear the critical side from those who are living this nightmare, including girls who have detransitioned and what they have to say about their experience, and parents who are being threatened in various ways. Find out the harm being done to kids.

Google some of those words and terms and you'll learn more than you ever wanted to know.

Because everything you read on the internet is true...

How about actually providing some real proof of you claims. Not wild claims from trans hate sites.

Let's start with your claim that schools are providing gender realignment without parents knowledge.

not sure about knowledge, but it's so nice of you to omit the consent part, right? because if they know, it doesn't matter if they have anything to say, right?

www.education.vic.gov.au...
www.dailywire.com...

More bollocks scaremongering. Did you actually read through the first link you provided?

It discusses allowing students who are mature enough to make decisions where no agreement can be reached with parents.

Do you really think, like your second link claims, that means schools providing gender reassignment to 6 year olds?

oh, i did read.

did you?

A principal may deem a student to be a mature minor for some decisions and not for others. For example, a principal may deem a student to be a mature minor for the purpose of participating in a Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Intersex (LGBTI) support group at school, or attend a sex education class. In these circumstances, the principal may decide that the student may choose to participate on their own behalf without parent consent. This does not automatically mean that the school would deem the student a mature minor for any other aspect of their education or welfare.

www.education.vic.gov.au...

i'm not saying i agree 100% with the second article, but it's kinda obvious they DO consider throwing parent consent out of the window while the kid/teen doesn't really know what they're doing.

now, don't get me wrong. when a teen is 100% sure, out of their own will and not because (s)he was brainwashed at school, that transition is what (s)he needs, then yeah, the sooner the better, and if that's against parents, so be it.

but what i have a problem with, and what others have a problem with, is indoctrinating kids that THIS IS THE NORM.

IT IS F..KING NOT.

this is a very, VERY vocal MINORITY, and as such MINORITY - extreme minority, i would dare to say - it should have NO RIGHT to influence the education of the MAJORITY.

this isn't about this or that -phobia, as some would like to present it. no. no normal person should be against other person's free will, as long as exercising said free will doesn't harm anyone. you're gay? trans? it's your life and your body, you're a human being and deserve the same love everyone else does.

it's all about those attempts at swaying those outside of LGBT community to become one of them - you may claim it's ridiculous, but i saw "try it" post in the first page of this thread already - and THAT'S ridiculous. it stops being funny though when such a miniscule minority tries to influence the education of ALL kids. that is just WRONG and that's one of the reasons there's a talk about some sort of agenda.

There is no mention of brainwashing or trying to influence the kid. Just the acknowledgement that some kids may be mature enough to know better than their parents what is best for their own lives

Also pretty important to understand that schools can't actually prescribe medical treatment.

As far as I can tell the only agenda is to be treated with a degree of respect and fairness.

Pretty sure the try it post was a joke rather than attempt a conversion. Also pretty sure you capable of understanding that.

if telling kids that being LGBT person is normal isn't brainwashing, then i don't know what is.

and before you'll try to label me:

en.oxforddictionaries.com...

normal
adjective

1 Conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.

being LGBT isn't usual, typical or expected. it isn't the norm, hence it isn't normal. period.

a reply to: CynConcepts

Yes! This:

I have no problem with transvestites...they are honest, with themselves and the world. I can respect honesty. I do disagree with Transgenderism, since it is not only dishonest to others, but mostly to themselves. Be happy, and begin to appreciate your real biological body. Feminine male or masculine female...it is what it is and varies greatly amongst all of humanity.

I just wanted to see that repeated. It deserves repeating.

Let people be them and let's put our efforts into helping people accept and love themselves as their genuine self.

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

So you think the NHS should pay for hormone treatment and surgery to appease someone who is delusional?

I agree they need medical help but not feeding their inability to accept the body they were born with.

If i wanted to transition into a dog, should the NHS be responsible and start genetic research into growing me a tail?

As I said I think what is best should be decided by medical professionals who have actually examined the person and the person themselves.

That seems a better method than anonymous online posters on a conspiracy web site deciding.

You mean those who can ensure a continuous income from counseling, prescriptions, surgeries, kickbacks, etcetera ? I think I would rather trust in the real scientists of biology. Who reach their conclusions by actual scientific data and long-term studies.

Since the original post was in regard the NHS you might want to understand how NHS doctors get paid before making such an ill informed post.

There are many doctors and psychologists who say Transgenderism is a 'mental' symptom and surgery and meds are not needed nor helpful.

Link to google search

There are pages and pages of links to show that there is a great divide in the professional fields.

There is divide over lots treatments for lots of conditions and what us the best option for one case may not be in another.

Again why the decision is best made by medical professionals who are actually examining the patient.

Unless you also think you some how know better based on a Google search?

If you are not a physician or psychologist currently or in the past treated a transgender patient, then I would say you have obviously shown your own biased ignorance in this debate. Since you believe your opinion holds more weight than others.

I have said, maybe 4 times now, that I believe that medical decisions should be made by medical professionals who have actually examined the patient.

You and some other internet experts on here seem to think you can recommend treatment for people you have never even met.

I would therefore respectfully suggest you are talking out your arse.

I sourced a google link packed full of links for you to read from real doctors and psychologists who are or have actually treated transgender patients. So, no I am actually researching and trying to deny ignorance.

You Googled stuff.

Guess that does major you more qualified than the doctors actually treating transgender people.

I apologize that I must have missed where you shared that you were so qualified in this thread. Please share your professional experience with me and ATS, so that we can understand your reasoning.

I guess reading is an issue for you since I have repeatedly said treatment should be decided by doctors examining patients rather Google operators like yourself.

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: ScepticScot
a reply to: Artemis12

Okay, it's all bullocks.
----------------------------------

For those who want to know the truth, don't take my word for it or anyone's word for it. Never get all your information in one place. And always do your own due diligence.

It's known as "gender affirmation" treatment, under an "informed consent" model of treatment, wherein a patient can decline mental health services/counseling/diagnosis of gender dysphoria, etc. Puberty blockers are recommended based upon "Tanner Stages," basically pubertal development as opposed to chronological age.

It's easy enough to look up some of the gender clinics around the country, and go to their websites and see when they recommend starting puberty blockers.

Check out "WPATH", the "Endocrine Society", "Mermaids", "Tavistock"... find out from them if and when they recommend puberty blockers for kids.

Also check out "Transgendertrend," "4th Wave Now," and "Pique Resilience Project" to hear the critical side from those who are living this nightmare, including girls who have detransitioned and what they have to say about their experience, and parents who are being threatened in various ways. Find out the harm being done to kids.

Google some of those words and terms and you'll learn more than you ever wanted to know.

Because everything you read on the internet is true...

How about actually providing some real proof of you claims. Not wild claims from trans hate sites.

Let's start with your claim that schools are providing gender realignment without parents knowledge.

not sure about knowledge, but it's so nice of you to omit the consent part, right? because if they know, it doesn't matter if they have anything to say, right?

www.education.vic.gov.au...
www.dailywire.com...

More bollocks scaremongering. Did you actually read through the first link you provided?

It discusses allowing students who are mature enough to make decisions where no agreement can be reached with parents.

Do you really think, like your second link claims, that means schools providing gender reassignment to 6 year olds?

oh, i did read.

did you?

A principal may deem a student to be a mature minor for some decisions and not for others. For example, a principal may deem a student to be a mature minor for the purpose of participating in a Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Intersex (LGBTI) support group at school, or attend a sex education class. In these circumstances, the principal may decide that the student may choose to participate on their own behalf without parent consent. This does not automatically mean that the school would deem the student a mature minor for any other aspect of their education or welfare.

www.education.vic.gov.au...

i'm not saying i agree 100% with the second article, but it's kinda obvious they DO consider throwing parent consent out of the window while the kid/teen doesn't really know what they're doing.

now, don't get me wrong. when a teen is 100% sure, out of their own will and not because (s)he was brainwashed at school, that transition is what (s)he needs, then yeah, the sooner the better, and if that's against parents, so be it.

but what i have a problem with, and what others have a problem with, is indoctrinating kids that THIS IS THE NORM.

IT IS F..KING NOT.

this is a very, VERY vocal MINORITY, and as such MINORITY - extreme minority, i would dare to say - it should have NO RIGHT to influence the education of the MAJORITY.

this isn't about this or that -phobia, as some would like to present it. no. no normal person should be against other person's free will, as long as exercising said free will doesn't harm anyone. you're gay? trans? it's your life and your body, you're a human being and deserve the same love everyone else does.

it's all about those attempts at swaying those outside of LGBT community to become one of them - you may claim it's ridiculous, but i saw "try it" post in the first page of this thread already - and THAT'S ridiculous. it stops being funny though when such a miniscule minority tries to influence the education of ALL kids. that is just WRONG and that's one of the reasons there's a talk about some sort of agenda.

There is no mention of brainwashing or trying to influence the kid. Just the acknowledgement that some kids may be mature enough to know better than their parents what is best for their own lives

Also pretty important to understand that schools can't actually prescribe medical treatment.

As far as I can tell the only agenda is to be treated with a degree of respect and fairness.

Pretty sure the try it post was a joke rather than attempt a conversion. Also pretty sure you capable of understanding that.

if telling kids that being LGBT person is normal isn't brainwashing, then i don't know what is.

and before you'll try to label me:

en.oxforddictionaries.com...

normal
adjective

1 Conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.

being LGBT isn't usual, typical or expected. it isn't the norm, hence it isn't normal. period.

Because the use of 'not normal' isn't a loaded term...

Lots of stuff isn't normal. Morris dancing isn't normal by I don't go round worrying about the Morris dancer agenda.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

So you think the NHS should pay for hormone treatment and surgery to appease someone who is delusional?

I agree they need medical help but not feeding their inability to accept the body they were born with.

If i wanted to transition into a dog, should the NHS be responsible and start genetic research into growing me a tail?

As I said I think what is best should be decided by medical professionals who have actually examined the person and the person themselves.

That seems a better method than anonymous online posters on a conspiracy web site deciding.

You mean those who can ensure a continuous income from counseling, prescriptions, surgeries, kickbacks, etcetera ? I think I would rather trust in the real scientists of biology. Who reach their conclusions by actual scientific data and long-term studies.

Since the original post was in regard the NHS you might want to understand how NHS doctors get paid before making such an ill informed post.

There are many doctors and psychologists who say Transgenderism is a 'mental' symptom and surgery and meds are not needed nor helpful.

Link to google search

There are pages and pages of links to show that there is a great divide in the professional fields.

There is divide over lots treatments for lots of conditions and what us the best option for one case may not be in another.

Again why the decision is best made by medical professionals who are actually examining the patient.

Unless you also think you some how know better based on a Google search?

If you are not a physician or psychologist currently or in the past treated a transgender patient, then I would say you have obviously shown your own biased ignorance in this debate. Since you believe your opinion holds more weight than others.

I have said, maybe 4 times now, that I believe that medical decisions should be made by medical professionals who have actually examined the patient.

You and some other internet experts on here seem to think you can recommend treatment for people you have never even met.

I would therefore respectfully suggest you are talking out your arse.

I sourced a google link packed full of links for you to read from real doctors and psychologists who are or have actually treated transgender patients. So, no I am actually researching and trying to deny ignorance.

You Googled stuff.

Guess that does major you more qualified than the doctors actually treating transgender people.

I apologize that I must have missed where you shared that you were so qualified in this thread. Please share your professional experience with me and ATS, so that we can understand your reasoning.

I guess reading is an issue for you since I have repeatedly said treatment should be decided by doctors examining patients rather Google operators like yourself.

So then you agree that activism has no place in our schools or government? That is should be a personal health matter between doctor and patient? If so, I completely agree.

Edit add: and naturally, the parents should be included if the patient is a minor.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

So you think the NHS should pay for hormone treatment and surgery to appease someone who is delusional?

I agree they need medical help but not feeding their inability to accept the body they were born with.

If i wanted to transition into a dog, should the NHS be responsible and start genetic research into growing me a tail?

As I said I think what is best should be decided by medical professionals who have actually examined the person and the person themselves.

That seems a better method than anonymous online posters on a conspiracy web site deciding.

You mean those who can ensure a continuous income from counseling, prescriptions, surgeries, kickbacks, etcetera ? I think I would rather trust in the real scientists of biology. Who reach their conclusions by actual scientific data and long-term studies.

Since the original post was in regard the NHS you might want to understand how NHS doctors get paid before making such an ill informed post.

There are many doctors and psychologists who say Transgenderism is a 'mental' symptom and surgery and meds are not needed nor helpful.

Link to google search

There are pages and pages of links to show that there is a great divide in the professional fields.

There is divide over lots treatments for lots of conditions and what us the best option for one case may not be in another.

Again why the decision is best made by medical professionals who are actually examining the patient.

Unless you also think you some how know better based on a Google search?

If you are not a physician or psychologist currently or in the past treated a transgender patient, then I would say you have obviously shown your own biased ignorance in this debate. Since you believe your opinion holds more weight than others.

I have said, maybe 4 times now, that I believe that medical decisions should be made by medical professionals who have actually examined the patient.

You and some other internet experts on here seem to think you can recommend treatment for people you have never even met.

I would therefore respectfully suggest you are talking out your arse.

I sourced a google link packed full of links for you to read from real doctors and psychologists who are or have actually treated transgender patients. So, no I am actually researching and trying to deny ignorance.

You Googled stuff.

Guess that does major you more qualified than the doctors actually treating transgender people.

I apologize that I must have missed where you shared that you were so qualified in this thread. Please share your professional experience with me and ATS, so that we can understand your reasoning.

I guess reading is an issue for you since I have repeatedly said treatment should be decided by doctors examining patients rather Google operators like yourself.

all that was said is that many doctors object to drugs and medical procedures as treatment in such cases. yet you seem to be triggered by that, why? are you a doctor?

or just a hypocrite, unable to follow your own advice?

also, from the link i've pasted earlier (emphasis mine):

There may be circumstances in which students wish or need to undertake gender transition without the consent of their parent/s (or carer/s), and/or without consulting medical practitioners.

www.education.vic.gov.au...

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

So you think the NHS should pay for hormone treatment and surgery to appease someone who is delusional?

I agree they need medical help but not feeding their inability to accept the body they were born with.

If i wanted to transition into a dog, should the NHS be responsible and start genetic research into growing me a tail?

As I said I think what is best should be decided by medical professionals who have actually examined the person and the person themselves.

That seems a better method than anonymous online posters on a conspiracy web site deciding.

You mean those who can ensure a continuous income from counseling, prescriptions, surgeries, kickbacks, etcetera ? I think I would rather trust in the real scientists of biology. Who reach their conclusions by actual scientific data and long-term studies.

Since the original post was in regard the NHS you might want to understand how NHS doctors get paid before making such an ill informed post.

There are many doctors and psychologists who say Transgenderism is a 'mental' symptom and surgery and meds are not needed nor helpful.

Link to google search

There are pages and pages of links to show that there is a great divide in the professional fields.

There is divide over lots treatments for lots of conditions and what us the best option for one case may not be in another.

Again why the decision is best made by medical professionals who are actually examining the patient.

Unless you also think you some how know better based on a Google search?

If you are not a physician or psychologist currently or in the past treated a transgender patient, then I would say you have obviously shown your own biased ignorance in this debate. Since you believe your opinion holds more weight than others.

I have said, maybe 4 times now, that I believe that medical decisions should be made by medical professionals who have actually examined the patient.

You and some other internet experts on here seem to think you can recommend treatment for people you have never even met.

I would therefore respectfully suggest you are talking out your arse.

I sourced a google link packed full of links for you to read from real doctors and psychologists who are or have actually treated transgender patients. So, no I am actually researching and trying to deny ignorance.

You Googled stuff.

Guess that does major you more qualified than the doctors actually treating transgender people.

I apologize that I must have missed where you shared that you were so qualified in this thread. Please share your professional experience with me and ATS, so that we can understand your reasoning.

I guess reading is an issue for you since I have repeatedly said treatment should be decided by doctors examining patients rather Google operators like yourself.

So then you agree that activism has no place in our schools or government? That is should be a personal health matter between doctor and patient? If so, I completely agree.

Edit add: and naturally, the parents should be included if the patient is a minor.

Educating kids is the role of schools. That includes tolerance and that trans people exist.

Despite what the hard of thinking seem to believe that isn't brainwashing.

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

So you think the NHS should pay for hormone treatment and surgery to appease someone who is delusional?

I agree they need medical help but not feeding their inability to accept the body they were born with.

If i wanted to transition into a dog, should the NHS be responsible and start genetic research into growing me a tail?

As I said I think what is best should be decided by medical professionals who have actually examined the person and the person themselves.

That seems a better method than anonymous online posters on a conspiracy web site deciding.

You mean those who can ensure a continuous income from counseling, prescriptions, surgeries, kickbacks, etcetera ? I think I would rather trust in the real scientists of biology. Who reach their conclusions by actual scientific data and long-term studies.

Since the original post was in regard the NHS you might want to understand how NHS doctors get paid before making such an ill informed post.

There are many doctors and psychologists who say Transgenderism is a 'mental' symptom and surgery and meds are not needed nor helpful.

Link to google search

There are pages and pages of links to show that there is a great divide in the professional fields.

There is divide over lots treatments for lots of conditions and what us the best option for one case may not be in another.

Again why the decision is best made by medical professionals who are actually examining the patient.

Unless you also think you some how know better based on a Google search?

If you are not a physician or psychologist currently or in the past treated a transgender patient, then I would say you have obviously shown your own biased ignorance in this debate. Since you believe your opinion holds more weight than others.

I have said, maybe 4 times now, that I believe that medical decisions should be made by medical professionals who have actually examined the patient.

You and some other internet experts on here seem to think you can recommend treatment for people you have never even met.

I would therefore respectfully suggest you are talking out your arse.

I sourced a google link packed full of links for you to read from real doctors and psychologists who are or have actually treated transgender patients. So, no I am actually researching and trying to deny ignorance.

You Googled stuff.

Guess that does major you more qualified than the doctors actually treating transgender people.

I apologize that I must have missed where you shared that you were so qualified in this thread. Please share your professional experience with me and ATS, so that we can understand your reasoning.

I guess reading is an issue for you since I have repeatedly said treatment should be decided by doctors examining patients rather Google operators like yourself.

all that was said is that many doctors object to drugs and medical procedures as treatment in such cases. yet you seem to be triggered by that, why? are you a doctor?

or just a hypocrite, unable to follow your own advice?

also, from the link i've pasted earlier (emphasis mine):

There may be circumstances in which students wish or need to undertake gender transition without the consent of their parent/s (or carer/s), and/or without consulting medical practitioners.

www.education.vic.gov.au...

Not triggered at all. I am not the one with issues about transgender.

I have made my position perfectly clear over multiple posts. Not sure I can make any clearer for you if you are still struggling to understand.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
a reply to: Grenade

well i got a real simple solve for that: stop feeding your children blatant misinformation about biology

Good advice -- we ALL wish that were the case. But it's not. Just not the way you think.

To the best of my knowledge, you have not said and no one here knows what sex you were born as and what sex you transitioned to... I don't really care. I doubt anyone does. Everyone here is quite happy to discuss and debate and don't need to know.

But we do know that one cannot change their sex and therefore cannot change their gender. And we also know that if gender is not tied to one's sex, then it's impossible to tie one's "brain gender" back to one's sex. They are either tied together or they're not. Any test in the world that could "prove" someone has the opposite "gender" brain is only proving that our sex/gender does not control our brain!

I defy you to tell me in any ways transitioning and living as the opposite gender is anything more than trying to fulfill stereotypes and gender roles. We don't even have to get into fetishes. Just tell me one way -- any way -- in that a person can live as the opposite gender that isn't all about stereotypes.

And then tell me how it isn't arrogant and narcissistic to dare to think you can re-define the opposite gender -- half the population -- because you "feel" like the opposite gender using stereotypes and gender roles to play that role... How is it that you know and understand their gender (and therefore they themselves) better than those who have lived that life?

And if you actually "pass," basically fooling everyone you meet with a lie, then tell me why I shouldn't feel like you are perpetuating a fraud, and wonder just what all other deceits and deceptions you practice. Why would I trust you?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

So you think the NHS should pay for hormone treatment and surgery to appease someone who is delusional?

I agree they need medical help but not feeding their inability to accept the body they were born with.

If i wanted to transition into a dog, should the NHS be responsible and start genetic research into growing me a tail?

As I said I think what is best should be decided by medical professionals who have actually examined the person and the person themselves.

That seems a better method than anonymous online posters on a conspiracy web site deciding.

You mean those who can ensure a continuous income from counseling, prescriptions, surgeries, kickbacks, etcetera ? I think I would rather trust in the real scientists of biology. Who reach their conclusions by actual scientific data and long-term studies.

Since the original post was in regard the NHS you might want to understand how NHS doctors get paid before making such an ill informed post.

There are many doctors and psychologists who say Transgenderism is a 'mental' symptom and surgery and meds are not needed nor helpful.

Link to google search

There are pages and pages of links to show that there is a great divide in the professional fields.

There is divide over lots treatments for lots of conditions and what us the best option for one case may not be in another.

Again why the decision is best made by medical professionals who are actually examining the patient.

Unless you also think you some how know better based on a Google search?

If you are not a physician or psychologist currently or in the past treated a transgender patient, then I would say you have obviously shown your own biased ignorance in this debate. Since you believe your opinion holds more weight than others.

I have said, maybe 4 times now, that I believe that medical decisions should be made by medical professionals who have actually examined the patient.

You and some other internet experts on here seem to think you can recommend treatment for people you have never even met.

I would therefore respectfully suggest you are talking out your arse.

I sourced a google link packed full of links for you to read from real doctors and psychologists who are or have actually treated transgender patients. So, no I am actually researching and trying to deny ignorance.

You Googled stuff.

Guess that does major you more qualified than the doctors actually treating transgender people.

I apologize that I must have missed where you shared that you were so qualified in this thread. Please share your professional experience with me and ATS, so that we can understand your reasoning.

I guess reading is an issue for you since I have repeatedly said treatment should be decided by doctors examining patients rather Google operators like yourself.

So then you agree that activism has no place in our schools or government? That is should be a personal health matter between doctor and patient? If so, I completely agree.

Edit add: and naturally, the parents should be included if the patient is a minor.

Educating kids is the role of schools. That includes tolerance and that trans people exist.

Despite what the hard of thinking seem to believe that isn't brainwashing.

I have no problem with acceptance being taught in our school system. Tolerance is subjective negativity and means they are not educating real acceptance. They are educating that others are different and special.

Acceptance that a boy dresses /behaving like girl may be seen at the urinal in the boys room or a girl dressed /behaving as a boy will be entering the showers...is acceptance of each individual's personality and characteristics.

Acceptance in name changes ... No big deal.

Yet, for some reason, activists cry foul and want to declare they have special needs that differ from the norm. They need others to feed into their mental illusions. It is not necessary. They need to learn acceptance equally too. It is not one-sided. They may consider themselves different to society standard norms, but they are not any more special than any other individual.

Edit add: to end gender confusion logically and scientifically, let's just do away with male and female labels /stereotyping and everyone simply go by XX or XY as chromsomally determined at birth? Bathrooms, IDs, ecterera.
Wah lah...social construct issue solved and united.

a reply to: CynConcepts

If we used XY and XX people wouldn't be able to abuse the system and claim to be something they are not. I'm sure they would find another way to portray themselves as somehow different and outside the norms tho.

You make great points regarding gender stereotypes.

a reply to: ScepticScot

If I told you that Zimbabwe was in Australia, would you believe me?

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: ScepticScot

If I told you that Zimbabwe was in Australia, would you believe me?

?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: ScepticScot

If I told you that Zimbabwe was in Australia, would you believe me?

?

Exactly, although you didn't get the point i was trying to prove.

You would agree then that Zimbabwe is not in Australia? Which means it's false or wrong... right?

So, going by that assumption, would you agree that teaching children something which is wrong... is wrong?

You have to be an idiot to not realise the difference between men and woman.

People can claim to be whatever they want but that doesn't mean i have to believe them.

I'll take science and common sense everyday of the week.

ScepticScot, you have no foundations to base your arguments. Your placing the needs and wants of a tiny fraction of the population above scientific principles.

Again, just because i think im a fish doesn't mean i can breathe underwater.

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: ScepticScot

If I told you that Zimbabwe was in Australia, would you believe me?

?

Exactly, although you didn't get the point i was trying to prove.

You would agree then that Zimbabwe is not in Australia? Which means it's false or wrong... right?

So, going by that assumption, would you agree that teaching children something which is wrong... is wrong?

Genuinely no idea what point you are trying to make.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: ScepticScot

If I told you that Zimbabwe was in Australia, would you believe me?

?

Exactly, although you didn't get the point i was trying to prove.

You would agree then that Zimbabwe is not in Australia? Which means it's false or wrong... right?

So, going by that assumption, would you agree that teaching children something which is wrong... is wrong?

Genuinely no idea what point you are trying to make.

The OPs point is extremely obvious. No matter how much surgery or meds you take your biological chromosomes will still be XX or XY. You cannot change your gender, only your appearance. So it is wrong to teach children that you can become the opposite gender if they believe they are.

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: ScepticScot

If I told you that Zimbabwe was in Australia, would you believe me?

?

Exactly, although you didn't get the point i was trying to prove.

You would agree then that Zimbabwe is not in Australia? Which means it's false or wrong... right?

So, going by that assumption, would you agree that teaching children something which is wrong... is wrong?

Genuinely no idea what point you are trying to make.

The OPs point is extremely obvious. No matter how much surgery or meds you take your biological chromosomes will still be XX or XY. You cannot change your gender, only your appearance. So it is wrong to teach children that you can become the opposite gender if they believe they are.

Only they can.

It's kind of the topic of this thread.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: butcherguy

You are not homophobe you are just an a hole for trying to label people as "normal". Everyone is different. Everyone is the same at the same time.

Why is he an 'a hole' for stating a well known fact?

7 billion people in the world speak to the truth of it.

Normal people aren't so consumed with their own self image they'll mutilate themselves to make them LOOK how they FEEL.