Why Haven't Religious People Transcended?

Personally, I'm not religious, not even a believer, honestly; but, I do enjoy thinking about theology and for the most part think people should be able to enjoy their religion however they see fit as long as it doesn't unduly suppress others.

I do often wonder how religion is still as big as it is, with most religions believing in the same thing but different. When does everyone think religion will transcend from stories+morals to just a vague spirituality or more personal worship?

Transcended? It just reminds me too much like getting hormonal treatments and operations, I'll just stay just the way I am.

a reply to: Atsbhct

Your final question isn't quite the same as the title.

From the title I guessed that you were asking "Why do we still see religious people living like people instead of glowing energy beings who don't need to eat or live in constructed dwellings?"

I personally think that the "new-agey" notions of "next-evolutionary stage" right around the corner are kind of a dead end.

The old religions were about hunting and planting and building and storing food, and who gets what and how much of the physical goods.

Once food and shelter became ubiquitous, due to the superior structures of the old religions, people found they had leisure time to think up great abstract systems considered superior for some ethereal, mysterious reason.

That's my way of looking at the issue.

ETA:

If I had a car to put a bumper sticker on, mine would read:

I'm Not Spiritual, I'm Religious
Don't Ask

a reply to: Atsbhct

Because for almost all religions, this earthly life is a test for what comes after. The transcendence you speak of is realizing that and not getting mired in the cares of the earth as if they are all (i.e realizing there is more, bigger and better, and that you are a tiny part of it). The morals are part of preparing yourself, and the stories are simply the surface level. If you fail to see beyond, then you aren't transcending to that spiritual plain you want people to reach.

I say that as Christian who sees it in my own faith and teachings.

“Why aren’t I fifty points ahead?!”

a reply to: Atsbhct

Maybe they have. And all that's left is the damned. That would explain a lot of things.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Atsbhct

Because for almost all religions, this earthly life is a test for what comes after. The transcendence you speak of is realizing that and not getting mired in the cares of the earth as if they are all (i.e realizing there is more, bigger and better, and that you are a tiny part of it). The morals are part of preparing yourself, and the stories are simply the surface level. If you fail to see beyond, then you aren't transcending to that spiritual plain you want people to reach.

I say that as Christian who sees it in my own faith and teachings.

I assume you threw away all your worldly goods and live in poverty as Jesus preached you have too.

If you haven't then you ain't no Christian and your trip after this life will be to hell.

God does not forget or forgive.

a reply to: Atsbhct

When does everyone think religion will transcend from stories+morals to just a vague spirituality or more personal worship?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point....

The two don't exclude each other. Rather, they go hand-in-hand. The former (religion) is the map or the journey, the latter (personal spirituality) is the destination -- so to speak.

True faith always resides within, and is merely expressed outwardly.

Sure, there will be those who never get that far... those who focus on the letter of divine law rather than the spirit of divine law -- but it's not the rule, nor the purpose.

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

No. Jesus didn't preach that you have to. That's just a pretty talking point. The easiest way to avoid a temptation is to remove it. Wealth and riches are a great temptation on the earth for too many. Look at the today's materialistic societies. If you cannot learn how to avoid keeping up with the Joneses and understand that, then you are better off giving it all away like you say.

There were rich men counted among His disciples whom He never asked to give it all up and they were certainly saved. Why? Because Christ knew they would give it all up in a heartbeat if needed without any qualms. The reason why He asked the rich young man to do it is because He knew the rich young man wouldn't be willing to.

a reply to: ketsuko

Luke 14:25 Now great multitudes were going with him. He turned and said to them, 26"If anyone comes to me, and doesn't disregard his own father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he can't be my disciple. 27Whoever doesn't bear his own cross, and come after me, can't be my disciple. …
33So therefore whoever of you who doesn't renounce all that he has, he can't be my disciple.

I'm sure there is a logical song and dance that erases this passage from consideration. But don't mind me. Somewhere else a Christian warned against "appropriating my religion".

A few years ago someone demanded that I stop quoting the Bible if I don't intend on following the whole thing. So I held a personal moratorium on Bible quoting for about 6 months.

It's past noon in my house, well not really mine 'cuz I abandoned mine, and I drank some strawberry daiquiri. Impaired judgement and what not. So don't mind me.

originally posted by: Atsbhct
Personally, I'm not religious, not even a believer, honestly; but, I do enjoy thinking about theology and for the most part think people should be able to enjoy their religion however they see fit as long as it doesn't unduly suppress others.

I do often wonder how religion is still as big as it is, with most religions believing in the same thing but different. When does everyone think religion will transcend from stories+morals to just a vague spirituality or more personal worship?

Once upon a time, the whole world was built, the nation was one, language and mind, they got to decide to go to be refined or to the disassembly line, this was a long time ago, but for some unknown reason Siddhartha Gautama was able to remain intact after death.

And no, i am not saying Buddhism is right in its modern claims and teachings, i am saying the dude actually did it!

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

I am going to guess you are not a Christian preaching your ignorant version of Christianity at people
Why do atheists have to do that all the time?

It’s a strange thing

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

I am going to guess you are not a Christian preaching your ignorant version of Christianity at people
Why do atheists have to do that all the time?

It’s a strange thing

a reply to: solve

Siddhartha Gautama was able to remain intact after death.

I don't think I've ever heard of that before. Maybe I went to the wrong schools or something.

a reply to: pthena

Whoever doesn't put me first in His heart can't be my Disciple. God will be first in your heart over everyone and everything else or you cannot follow Him.

That's what it means. God will be first, even before your own life. Would you die for Him? If you would die for Him, then what wouldn't you give up for Him?

I told you before, there is a spiritual message in the scripture. It isn't always literal -- Christ came as much to convict those who loved the letter before the spirit of the law.

Ask yourself ... if you are not allowed to prosper, then how can you be your brother's keeper? If every Christian on the face of the earth were to renounce everything they had, then how would they care for the widows, orphans, and poor? Is that not also one of our charges? Hard to do if you're also the widows, orphans and poor.

a reply to: Atsbhct

I'm guessing the question is "Why haven't the religious ascended yet?" The bible's answer would be this. The first century Jews botched the first century Apocalypse. And put the world on a 2000 year detour from the original plan the God of the Jews had planned.

What happened was John the Baptist was killed. The reason this was important was in Matthew 17 and Malachi 4. According to Jesus Christ he was Elijah the prophet. But according to the book of Malachi the prophet Elijah was supposed to be a co-messiah along with the Lord. But when he was killed that triggered the curse contained in Malachi 4. And it's a bad one.
Simplified according to the book of Hosea this curse is supposed to be 2000 years long followed by a 1000 year "day of Jezreel".

So put as simply as possible what happened was the 1st century Apocalypse was extended for 2000 years. It's not over yet but by my best guess it should be over with by 2028 at the latest.

And the ascending that you are looking for should happen in the next few years. And if you're lucky you could be a part of it.

Revelation 7
After the opening of the 6th seal.
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

a reply to: ketsuko
So I drank a pinna colada after the strawberry daiquiri and it occurred to me that the easy out would have been to say: "Jesus was wanting twelve disciples and he pretty much had those already, so he wasn't actively seeking more."

After napping and drinking two or three cups of coffee it seems that that still makes some sense.

Matthew 13:10 The disciples came, and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?" 11He answered them, "To you it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but it is not given to them. 12For whoever has, to him will be given, and he will have abundance, but whoever doesn't have, from him will be taken away even that which he has. 13Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they don't see, and hearing, they don't hear, neither do they understand.

Someone used to say quite often: "You don't know the mysteries and you can't discover the mysteries! You aren't one of the twelve disciples."

So of course it is true that regular folk are left to live out a regular religion like feeding and clothing the poor and welcoming strangers and paying honest wages to workers and stuff like that. So society as a whole benefits like a leavening. There is even a verse or two that would support that idea.

a reply to: pthena

Then if that is so, why did the Disciples often have to ask Jesus to explain his stories and parables even to them?

a reply to: ketsuko

They were regular people. Jesus probably over estimated their ability to grasp what he was saying.

Matthew 17:14 When they came to the multitude, a man came to him, kneeling down to him, saying, 15"Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is epileptic, and suffers grievously; for he often falls into the fire, and often into the water. 16So I brought him to your disciples, and they could not cure him." 17Jesus answered, "Faithless and perverse generation! How long will I be with you? How long will I bear with you? Bring him here to me." 18Jesus rebuked him, the demon went out of him, and the boy was cured from that hour.

19Then the disciples came to Jesus privately, and said, "Why weren't we able to cast it out?" 20He said to them, "Because of your unbelief. For most certainly I tell you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will tell this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. 21But this kind doesn't go out except by prayer and fasting."

a reply to: pthena

Like this post.

I personally think that the "new-agey" notions of "next-evolutionary stage" right around the corner are kind of a dead end.

next evolutionary stage, or the harvest, or rapture by the old ones. The meme has changed over time...the dead endness (it's a word) hasn't.