Who Goes to Heaven?

a reply to: glend

Perhaps you should reconsider the implications of "The eye with which I see God is the same with which God sees me" ... Meister Eckhart (Christian) or the Kingdom of God is within you.

Glend, I have no doubts as to what you say in that regard. You appear to me as very special but this world of people are not as you appear to be. God is not found in religion nor is He found in any other except the begotten Son Jesus. That is my understanding. We have many philosophies in this world and I would never intentionally discourage any one from seeking God. The prophets of the Hebrews taught of God in a cover of darkness and had no light to see. The light of this world came to let people see and they plucked the flame from the candle and once again walk in darkness.

The light of God is His Son and His Spirit of truth. That is what I believe. Could I be wrong? Of course I could be wrong as well as any person can be incomplete. I did not mean to sound harsh nor unforgiving as I m often judged to be. My love for God at times brings impatience towards others who do not share my understandings. Forgive me for that which I do not understand. LOL

a reply to: Seede

Every one of us is special Seede. Else God would not have built his temple within each of us (Luke 17:20-21). Ready to welcome us home, when we are ready to go home. The eye in which we seek God is the very seat of our consciousness. Through which God seeks us (No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son).

That seat of consciousness is bombarded by egotistical thoughts of self craving that constantly turn our thoughts away from God. These egotistical cravings I believe is the snake that cursed us to forever die. So knowing this can we love one another (John 15:12) by realising that those inflicted by the snake, don't know what they are doing. If we know Gods temple exist in everyone, how can we not love everyone, as much as we love God.

Perhaps Sun Tzu, Art of War, is the key to breaking the curse - Know your Enemy,

Who or what is the snake if it isn't our egotistical craving mind?

I also think the experiences we had in any lived life are left to the body. We may have a strong impression of this life when we first pass on but I think that fades. I think the core karma stays but the experiences, relationships and knowledge is lost to the flesh. Or maybe we are downloaded and wiped before the next journey but we can always come back and review a past life and relive it?

Maybe that's why we don't remember past lives but maybe deja vu is but a glimpse?

a reply to: Scifi2424

I also think the experiences we had in any lived life are left to the body. We may have a strong impression of this life when we first pass on but I think that fades. I think the core karma stays but the experiences, relationships and knowledge is lost to the flesh. Or maybe we are downloaded and wiped before the next journey but we can always come back and review a past life and relive it? Maybe that's why we don't remember past lives but maybe deja vu is but a glimpse?

With all due respect, I can't really understand that type of doctrine. In my understanding I not only understand the doctrine of Jesus and His brother James, but some of what medical science has proven. The brain is absolutely not the mind.

Both the brain and the mind are independent sources of their own purpose. The mind is a source of energy not truly understood completely and exists independently from the brain. The brain is terrestrial and consists of the receptors which control the body. If any receptor is damaged then it affects that portion of the body. It is the mind that controls the brain and the brain that controls the body. Medical science is now concentrating on the mind more so then the brain. Even a lay person who believes in reincarnation understands that the brain perishes in death and that it is the mind that survives to be reincarnated.

With this understanding the real question is that of memory. Which of the two sources contain the memory? You have suggested that the memory perishes with death. Let's examin that belief for a moment. In reincarnation the entire terrestrial substance returns to its source which is the earth. The remaining source of existence is the mind or spark of life. Now if what you say is true in that all memory perishes in the death of the terrestrial substance, then what is left to judge an afterlife?

You do have a judgment in reincarnation. Who does this judgment and what is judged? It most certainly is not the body and must be the mind. If so then how could a perfect God judge a mind [Spirit] who has no memory? If sin is not aware that it is sin then how can sin be judged? How could an entity commit sin and be expected to repent of that sin if there is no memory of sin? Would that be just? So in that respect I cannot understand how you say that memory perishes in death. Would not the Spirit of life with a memory be judged in reincarnation? The errors of life would then be presented to the Spirit and the Spirit made aware of those errors. That would be judgement in reincarnation.

If that be so then where is the memory which is lost in a new body's brain? Would you then suggest that the Spirit has been wiped of memory? That could not be because what is left to be judged? I think we both agree that the mind does survive the death of the body. We both know that the brain does perish and contains no memory once the life source has diminished and that the mind [Spirit] must be the source that survives. We both believe in a judgment in the afterlife and we both should agree that something has to have a memory to be judged.

If we can reach that point then we can discuss other points. Now if medical science is correct and we do have a mind that controls the body then why is that same mind erased of its prior deeds after being assigned a new body? Why is it that a mind could suffer cancer many times over and die horrible deaths many times over? For what purpose when there is no memory? Would a God of love require such a thing?

a reply to: glend

Every one of us is special Seede. Else God would not have built his temple within each of us (Luke 17:20-21).Text

in the doctrine of the Christ Jesus we are taught that the kingdom of God is not in all people. All people are not the children of the Father God and the kingdom of God cannot reside in the children of the devil.

John 8:42-44
(42) Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
(43) Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
(44) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

[John 3:3-18]
John_3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Then how can I be born again? [John 3:3-18] ----

John 3:16,17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

We see in the doctrine of Jesus that one must be born again to have the kingdom of God instilled in their minds and foremost is that one must accept Jesus as the begotten Son of God. There is no other way in the Nazarene doctrine of the Christ. LOL

a reply to: Seede

Do you differentiate yourself from "Ye are of your father the devil"?

I certainly don't. Jesus warning is crystal clear ....

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

So how do we submit to the will of the Father in heaven. If we are at the mercy of our own will, that continually craves this apple, and that apple, from this material world. A will that'll even devalue scripture if it threatens its rule.

Is this why Jesus went alone into the desert to fight the devil. The devil being the personification of our craving ego-mind that demands self importance, self pleasures above altruism. Is this why Jesus was poor in wealth. Why he shunned the churches that sought wealth. Why he rode a donkey into Jerusalem. Was salvation the path, not the man?

The kingdom of God within us has nine gates. The gates will only allow those that serve the divine will of God to pass. Those that pass all nine gates are born again. Those that are denied entry remain dark inside.

I try but don't think I have the fortitude to enter the kingdom. However I have lessor concern for myself than that of others. So hope you understand that I would not write this comment unless I thought it were true.

a reply to: glend

So how do we submit to the will of the Father in heaven. If we are at the mercy of our own will, that continually craves this apple, and that apple, from this material world. A will that'll even devalue scripture if it threatens its rule.

One cannot attain justification with God by their own strength. That is impossible in my understanding. As I said before, God has a perfect will and that perfect will is to be sin free in love for Him. But no one can attain that perfect will of God with the knowledge and the choice from that knowledge to do good or evil. God knew that freedom of the mind would entail much patience and long suffering. The Most High then gave grace as His permissive will.

The permissive will of the Father is not to last forever but only a schooling for those who choose to take that path. Not all people will want that path of life because it would entail forsaking this world of pleasures in this life. Without the permissive will of God hardly a soul can become justified and those that confess God but are not of God are those that are most apt to teach discord to others.

We shall always be at the mercy of our own desires throughout this life and we shall stumble daily in sin and doubt but God's permissive will shall give us renewed strength and forgiveness if we continue to repent in sorrow for our weakness. In my years of walking in grace I still have no religion but abide in God and His Christ Jesus. Will I ever be perfect? No I will never be perfect because once one has tasted the broth of evil that one can never be perfect. Then what is my solution? My solution is Grace from the Father God through His begotten Son Jesus. I have no other recourse in this life because I realize that I cannot become justified by my own strength. LOL

a reply to: Seede

Thank you seede. I appreciate your honesty and the time you spent expressing your views with me.

Personally I see much strength in you.

I would say the chosen ones only.

a reply to: Seede All thing were made by Him and through Him. All things will be reconciled back to Him All things will be made new a new heaven and a new earth and a New Jerusalem built with the living stones so no one is going to heaen so to say

a reply to: JON666

a reply to: Seede All thing were made by Him and through Him. All things will be reconciled back to Him All things will be made new a new heaven and a new earth and a New Jerusalem built with the living stones so no one is going to heaen so to sayText

From the 1611 KJV bible ------
Read 2nd Peter 3:10-13, Isaiah 65:17-19, and Revelation 21:1-4 - If you need more than that then you are not in the doctrine of Jesus.

a reply to: Seede

a literal heaven means a literal God and Jesus, believers, good people and children go to Heaven etc.

Only the vain an beautiful.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Originally posted by Raggedyman
You can take that a million ways and then some but the bible says very clearly

Luke 13:25
After the master of the house gets up and shuts the door, you will stand outside knocking and saying, 'Lord, open the door for us.' But he will reply, 'I do not know where you are from.'

So if you know Jesus you won’t live a bad life or at least try not to live a bad life

That was my whole point…i.e. its’ not just about knowing who Jesus is …it’s about how one lives ones life imo

Originally posted by Raggedyman
As for the nightclub analogy, wow, sorry to offend your religiosity, it’s fundamentalists like you who are all nit picky and complainy about every little thing, it’s an analogy, it’s not really a nightclub, not a true story, it’s ok, you are not being forced to go to a nightclub

Not sure what made you think I was offended...I wasn’t…I Just thought it was strange to use a Nightclub as an analogy for Heaven…I still do…

For example I might think that Santa Claws coming down a Chimney is a little strange...but that doesn’t mean I’m offended by it lol…

Plus I’m not even Religious... so zero religiosity involved...

And as for “it’s fundamentalists like you” that’s just laughable…Everyone on this website knows I’m not a fundamentalist.

- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

Actually Joe, there are a myriad of non believers who have their own Christian philosophy and will preach their own beliefs at Christina

How many times have I read a non Christian say christians shouldn’t eat pork or other food, wear blended materials, working the sabath, whatever little law from the Old Testament they find and decide their theological training is best?

Anyway, the bible teaches that you will know real christians by the way they act
As for the analogy, It was just an analogy.

a reply to: jon777

Texta literal heaven means a literal God and Jesus, believers, good people and children go to Heaven etc.

Let's talk. I am not truly understanding what you are saying. What are you trying to say? I agree that justified people go to a real place located in the third heaven called 'The Kingdom of Heaven." But one must be justified in order to become a citizen of "The Kingdom of Heaven." Do you agree or disagree?

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: jon777

Texta literal heaven means a literal God and Jesus, believers, good people and children go to Heaven etc.

Let's talk. I am not truly understanding what you are saying. What are you trying to say? I agree that justified people go to a real place located in the third heaven called 'The Kingdom of Heaven." But one must be justified in order to become a citizen of "The Kingdom of Heaven." Do you agree or disagree?

Got to be kind of lucky to make it to Heaven, this world tries to crush us and not make it not possible to make it to heaven.

Jesus whole reason for incarnating was to make it possible for people to make it to heaven, through belief in the blood he spilled and to have faith on that.

or we wouldnt even know or have any idea, on what to do, but still it seems there are no guarantees to get there, its a big jump, heaven is above this universe, for a weak soul, would need the help of angels and or jesus, to get there, it is easy to go to hell, knackered souls can just fall into hell, but heaven takes effort, i dont think my soul has the energy anymore to make it to heaven would need to some divine grace aka help like the help of angels.

i am a heavy smoker i dont think this helps my cause but i believe in Jesus, God and his Angels, whether they believe in me though i dont know, without any direct answers, christians are meant to have faith, but i would like to know, is being a good person and belief in jesus enough.

a reply to: jon777

Got to be kind of lucky to make it to Heaven, this world tries to crush us and not make it not possible to make it to heaven.

I agree with most of all that you posted. All except the word luck. Everyone that confesses Jesus as the Son of God is a candidate to have everlasting life. You appear to fit that bill. I am well past 90 years of age and am no better than you. I have doubts every day and age has nothing to do with salvation. I will face the very same judgment that you will face and so will all people face this same judgment.

The only reason that I can see of why God allowed me to be past ninety years of age is because I was so full of sin that it took ninety years to get me half way cleaned up. I hope that the rest of my nasty habits can be forgiven before he takes this rack of bones to the grave. But jon, in all honesty there is not one person in this world that doesn't need cleaned up and yes there is lots of evil that wants all of us to rot in hell. One thing I think I learned from the Comforter and that is love and once love is instilled in us then all the rest of this life takes on a better purpose. John 3:16 tells all of us the way to eternal life and I believe you are on that path. LOL

a reply to: Seede

Do smokers go to heaven or hell?

a reply to: Seede

Do you believe that you are bad?
Where you born bad and need 90 years to become good?