The South African Mess

Apartheid is/was neither fair nor sustainable but lets get some facts straight. Current apartheid is against the whites.

South Africa was a British colony. In 1961 it became a republic and the National Party (the so called Boere) won their first election in 1964. In 1998 the ANC took over as the ruling party.

What I find interesting is that the Boere get blamed for all the bad things that happened in their 34 years of rule.
(Do yourself a favour and research how South Africa grew in this 34 years. But yes, there was some ugly things happening, mostly boiling over from old systems. But the world didn’t allow South Africa the chance to fix itself as we were forced by sanctions to change our political system before most people were ready to make these changes. I still wonder where South Africa would have been if it was allowed to implement the homeland policies)
But do not try to have a normal conversation about the above because it will be changed around and become a racistic debate. Which normally starts with what Jan Smuts did decades before 1964. The thing is that all politicians will have to move within the rules laid down by their leading party. And if you suggest a different idea, it could be ignored, listen to or stopped the African way. Still any ruling party will make sure their choice will be what’s more lucrative towards themselves.

So here we sit in this rainbow mess after 25 years of rule where apartheid still gets the blame with corruption pushed to the side line. The thieves in parliament and the whistle-blowers in jail. No wonder South Africa are rated again as the country with the most unequally distribution of wealth in the world. And the people who was not ready for the changes are still voting for the ANC (do not underestimate the millions sitting at home with illegal grants). Because not all their policies are bad and apartheid stays the reason for the current situation. But boy oh boy can they promise, to convince the younger people which are beginning to understand. Although not all, I see fever people younger than 25 still blaming the whites (or must I call them Boere for the British sake)

Now lets look at this land-grab (Zimbabwean) thing on the cards (its all about mineral rights and not land distribution). OK, the money set aside to correct this problem was used to give people land without the knowledge to farm competitively so most went down the drain and ended in unproductive farms until today, but what about the billions (maybe trillions) of that money that was stolen?

Currently I feel ashamed to be called a South African, as I can see how we must look in the eyes of the world? We even had a President who took a shower not to get AIDS after a little cheating.

I pray that South Africa can become a proud country again, hopefully after 5 more years if we are not completely destroyed and bankrupted by then. I do not see Ramaphosa convincing the ANC elite (controllers) to give up their wealth and freedom because most of them will go to jail. In any case he was just the talker and personality the ANC use to make sure they win.

This is a private observation by an individual who hates everything with a political agenda, but based on my personal disappointment that the ANC (thieves) are still in charge. A book can be written on the country wide complete corruption on all levels and the mountains of red-tape implemented to make it difficult to investigate. You got no chance to get a tender or job in a state owned entity if you do not pay a untraceable commission (but lets call it by its real name – corruption). And do not forget the railway and police department pensioners who’s pension was stolen. They get even less than the around $127 state pension each month.

a reply to: ICycle2

I think south Africa is just like most other political issues being that it's not just black and white.
Pardon the pun.

The issues run deep and one side being forced on the other will inevitably lead to conflict.
People being punished for the wrongs of their ancestors will never turn out well.

a reply to: ICycle2

About ten years ago amongst other business interests I had my own pub.

One day when it was very quiet and I working behind the bar - the only times I did work behind the bar were when it was quiet - a guy walked and asked for a pint.
I struck up a conversation with him and it turned out he was from South Africa.
He had sold up and emigrated to the UK where he was looking to invest in a business or two.

He explained to me all about the land grabs in South Africa and predicted it would deteriorate to such an extent that it would resemble Zimbabwe.

We had a few pints together, had a bit of a laugh over a few games of pool and then said our fond farewells and our paths have never crossed since.

The next day I looked in the situations in both Zimbabwe and South Africa and have tried to follow events ever since on both countries.

What has happened in Zimbabwe is simply criminal.
A nation that was once called 'The breadbasket of Africa' has become a living nightmare.
What has happened there is well documented and personally I think its criminal that 'the west' has done so little prevent the descent and the excesses of Mugabe and his cronies.

But what is happening in South Africa is not as well documented.
There seems to be a reluctance in MSM to report on the injustices of the South African regime post-apartheid and its failures to address numerous social problems and issues.
Now it seems it is hell bent on what is nothing short of state sponsored theft and replicating the policies that destroyed Zimbabwe.

Lets hope 'the west' see's this and does not repeat its complicit silence and inactivity.

a reply to: ICycle2

Op before it was colonized other ethnic groups were already there. Africans who claim they had land stole a Majority of their ancestors didn't even live there.

Its appreciable being able to read and hear personal points of view from there , and having heard similar to what you say more than twice it 's sinking in that there's problems , serious enough for people to move away from the country . What appears to have occurred which has affected both there and other smaller countries is a change of international sponsors : in years gone by South Africa was 'run' or part of the Western sphere of influence , part of that co-operation organisation comprising The West . But Eastern influence (see BRICASTI or BRICS) money exploitation and governance has now taken hold there in SA instead . A country in similar circumstances is Turkey , once a Western Ally , but now quite firmly a part of the Eastern alliance, since the change of governance / revolution earlier in this decade . Again Venezuela , is presently contested territory between West and East . While Trump seems to be concentrating atm on re America-izing the Americas ,
( and the East concentrating on keeping Venezuela ) , he wants that hemisphere , yourselves in SA may have a while to wait or even face abandonment for now as What the East mounts up to be is also a formidable combined force with well over half the worlds population under its umbrella . They've kept Syria , they're still there proxying Houtis because they want Yemen , etc . The East are just as ruthless corrupt and dangerous as the West unfortunately , if what you say of circumstances there in SAfrica are correct , it may well be the tacticians plan to single out and drive away any remnants of the previous governance which being largely white are going to be easy to find . Quite a few South Africans have seen it fit to leave as Zimbabwe has had the same similar issues .

a reply to: DoctorBluechip
You read too much into the reasons. It's got nothing to do with East, Wests policies. It's just simply the locals power grabbing (that includes Turkey) power and the trapping of power. They will accept money from anybody and siphon it off for their own uses. They know they are untouchable as long as they control the military or the majority of the populace. Turkey it's the military and SA the populace.
It aint gonna change soon and if your white get out now by any means cos after they've finnished with the farmers they'll come for you. Why? Because they can.

a reply to: ICycle2

The way Israel treats Palestinians, Israel is the NEW South Africa!!

a reply to: ICycle2

First of all, the ANC took power in 1994. Mandela was released February 1990 so he could go to indoctrination school in Russia. Since I had worked for the military ending ANC terrorists, I left SA October 1990 as the writing was on the wall. Robber Mugarbage did destroy Zimbabwe, I had friends from there, it's almost a dust bowl or overgrown, not farmable easily anymore. Our pilot, great guy, Mike Simpson was in the South Rhodesian Airforce as a combat pilot.

The onset of the inverse affirmative action and BEE has pretty much destroyed SA. All that's left is to destroy is property ownership. This is a 3 step process, remove land rights from present white owners, hand over lands to black owners who will fail, transfer land ownership to cabinet members for self enrichment, land to be sold at a later date when the political climate changes to new white owners, primarily corporate entities.

I was fairly well placed with security clearances as I worked for the Chief of CI and controlled many SADF/CI/Armscor/QMG R&D weapons programs and would have discussions with Magnus occasionally on the issues of the "crazy ANC political/criminal conversions" that would occur, once deKlerk capitulated through Little Nicky's and the IMF's plan. It will be two more full generations or around 40 years before SA starts to right itself. If you're there, leave, start by going to Botswana or Zambia. If you plan on going to SA, don't, go to Botswana or Zambia. SA has become the stupid, criminal and corruption capital of the world (next to maybe the EU, but they are actually cunning in the EU).

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: ICycle2

The way Israel treats Palestinians, Israel is the NEW South Africa!!

Israel is not the new South Africa but it has learned from the MSM stitch up over there. Indeed South Africa is the perfect example to Israel of what would happen to its people and its economy should it give up the fight and hand over power to people who would stab you in the eye. It's madness.............. Would YOU commit suicide just to appease the MSM?

Everything the OP has stated is true by what I've read and heard from those who live there. A nation of fantastic mineral resources, once prosperous, independent and proud has been reduced to a free-for-all of corruption. South Africa's fall lies squarely on the backs of Western nations that through boycotts and embargoes forced SA to change their governing system.

People are quick to say Apartheid was evil but they know little or nothing about what it was. Apartheid meant literally "apart", the idea being since you had a multiplicity of ethnic and tribal groups that each would have their own area to govern as they saw fit under the umbrella of the state. The reason being many of these tribes did not get along and would fight endlessly if not separated. South Africa had existed more or less in this condition from the start, each group establishing their own territory and more or less deciding their own futures. It was only under the aegis of being a colony of England that all would have to answer to a single governing body - the British Parliament.

These groups had known some measure of independence; the Boer, the Zulu, the Griqua etc etc. Apartheid was more or less a continuation of what they all desired. It was Communist agitation that spread the idea that the White Afrikaners were "stealing' from the tribes and culturally dominating them. Every nation needs a common language and Afrikaans had long been that. Agitators worked among the youth and the earliest hints of the end of Apartheid were school strikes by tribes against learning Afrikaans (despite the fact they were also taught in the tribal language). These led to violence and the death of students at the hands of police which were spread around the world. The ANC spread communist doctrine and strikes and protests grew as did the violence in general. Bombs and mines were soon planted in White areas killing hundreds in the ANC campaign of terrorism. Nelson Mandela was sentenced to prison for his part in planning these and never renounced violence for political aims.

The media primarily showed sympathy towards only 1 side of this conflict turning world opinion against the Apartheid government forcing the elections that brought the ANC to political power. Blacks being far more numerous than Whites have simply outvoted them ever since and the decline in everything is self-evident. By every measure South Africa and it's people are poorer, less educated, in worse health and are facing a bleaker future than ever. Electric service is intermittent in some areas, places that 50 years ago enjoyed 1st world standards. The country is being looted by the political class and their cronies and China is working quietly behind the scenes to secure the mineral rights to some of the most valuable and scarce minerals in the world. They are building footholds throughout Africa not so much by the state but through corporate cut outs that act in China's strategic interests.

The West will pay a heavy price for ignoring the plight of South Africa post-Apartheid and it's people will pay the heaviest price of all - a likely revolution or civil war as things crumble around them. When people lose hope anything goes. We saw that play in Zimbabwe already. Why the mistakes made there are being ignored now are beyond criminal.

Mandela and his wire were terrorist and he belonged in jail and should have remained there for life, the country would be in MUCH better shape had that happened or if that damned "effect" thing had been true, then the country would have been in better condition as well.

I've spent more time studying SA than I have Brexit and the EU and "the troubles" (the IRA fighting in the 60's through 80's or whenever) put together.

What it comes down to is that the racist Communist ANC is doing what all communist/socialist's do, blame others for their failures, promise a ton of free stuff and never deliver (well except to themselves), allow things to fall apart and blame everyone who isn't part of the party.

What is most sick about this is the Bantu/Zulu's from the Eastern part of SA/Zim are the ones causing all the problems and unrest for the most part. They are the racists saying their land was stolen, when it was NEVER their land to begin with. The land was largely uninhabited and the people who did seldom pass through were desert dwellers/nomads from the north (more like from Namibia) called the Khoisan's. They are lighter skinned than the bantu/zulu's and they are discriminated against as much as the whites b/c they have more of a claim on the land than the racist Zulu/bantu's.

The farm attacks and murders/rapes/torture are some of the most heinous crimes that have been committed in the last few hundred years that I have seen, yet the world media remains silent. I think these are attacks planned /orchestrated by the ANC to push out the white farmers and break their spirits. These farmers have been there longer than the Bantu/Zulu's but since the bantu/zulu's are black everyone think's that means they are "native" but it is all a lie.

Then you have the illegal gun confiscation being targeted at whites, colored's (mixed white/blacks) and the Khoisan's. The ANC is doing their best to disarm the people and making it difficult to own any guns and even buy/own any reasonable amounts of ammunition.

The gun confiscation by (blacks of the ANC and some EFF), out of 30,000 confiscated over 10,000 were found to be used in crimes within a year of confiscation. All 30,000 were supposed to be destroyed but by the time they destroyed them, there were less than 5,000 remaining (all which were probably not functional or had impossible ammunition calibers to find). One of the police captains of a region (like a sheriff) was found to have sold the guns to criminals and I don't believe he was even fired!

Then take a look at the water and power stations, how many are working. The streams/rivers are some of the dirtiest in the world with human sewage and even the ground water has become contaminated with all kinds of things - water that had been pristine (over 30,000 yr old water, now contaminated w/n 25 years of ANC rule).

The list is really endless, it makes the US look like it is being run by all MENSA members in comparison. Take a look on YT for the ANC parliament's funniest moments - there is one for each year going back about 15 years. IT is super scary that these people have ANY power let alone weapons.

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

If you're there, leave, start by going to Botswana or Zambia.

I'm setting it up but feel sorry for those who are not financially able anymore as I was nearly there.

originally posted by: ICycle2
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

If you're there, leave, start by going to Botswana or Zambia.

I'm setting it up but feel sorry for those who are not financially able anymore as I was nearly there.

It's a terrible thing, what has happened to SA, that people born there can't feel safe in their own country. Can't make a life in their own country without government interference, restrictions and forced useless partnerships. That people have to operate under the BS inverted Affirmative Action crap that is supposed to favour minorities or the horrible BEE legislation that basically gives free money to useless twats.

We should have made Mandela a martyr, got it over with quick, because this slow death is a long slide into the abyss and it's a long way still to the bottom.

Cheers - Dave