'The Beast'

You guys may wnat to read the threads below....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Least not forget ol Josephus shall we? This whole argument is crap and almost everyone here knows it, they might not be a follower but they know that a man with that name did live in those times and left one heck of a legacy for sure.....the most any 'man' ever did by far.....


But I also would count myself in the "He is my God" crowd and I will not be one bit ashamed to state it...even at work.

Originally posted by edsinger
"He is my God" crowd and I will not be one bit ashamed to state it...even at work.

Did someon say you should be ashamed? I missed that part Ed...anyway...mighty big of you to actually stand up for what you believe......

Greetings Croat,

Originally posted by Croat56
Oh come on. Why would they write about Jesus in the gospels if he didnt exhist? That wouldnt make any sence whatsoever! Its always people trying to discredit Jesus. I never see any1 trying to say Buddha, Moses or Muhamed didnt exhist. It's always Jesus and Christianity and Im getting sick of this.

Well,
have you studied these subjects at all?

Moses is considered a myth by most scholars (along with Adam, Noah, Joseph, Joshua, and most probably David and Solomon.)

Buddha is considered a myth by some scholars.

And,
there ARE even some authors who think Mohamed was a myth too (although this seems unlikely.)


You seem to think that everyone who was written about must be real?

What about Hercules?
Odysseus?
Osiris?
Dionysus?
Adonis?

What about Sherlock Holmes?
What about Frodo Baggins?
What about Romeo and Juliet?

Why would people write about them if they weren't real?


Iasion

Here's another one for you guys to read.....
Check it out!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Greetings Udio,

Originally posted by St Udio
heres a site that explores around 15 non biblical references to
Christ-Jesus, whomever
www.grantjeffrey.com...

of special interest is Phlegon a pagan historian and one to cite
an un-natural solar-eclipse lasting 3 hours during a full moon in the 19th year of Tiberius Caesar of Rome

None of those 15 authors stand up to scrutiny, check out my post about authors who should have mentioned Jesus, or see my list here :
members.iinet.net.au...

If you actually check the facts, you will find there is NO CONTEMPORARY EVIDENCE for Jesus - all the alleged "evidence" cited by Christians is fake, forged, far too late, or not about Jesus at all.


Phlegon?

He is NO EVIDENCE for Jesus at all.

Phlegon's works are lost. Later, Origen, Eusebius, and Julianus Africanus (as quoted by George Syncellus) refer to him, but quote differently his reference to an eclipse.

Phlegon MAY have referred to an eclipse (there WAS an eclipse in 29CE) - but there is no evidence Phlegon said anything about Gospel events or Jesus.


Iasion

Did I say I believed in Buddha or Muhamed? NO. Although they were people who did exhist. Moses DID exhist. He exhiled the jews from egypt. What I asked was why no one(especially people on ATS) ever questioned them. I dont think there would be such huge fallowings if these people didnt exhist.

Originally posted by Croat56
I dont think there would be such huge fallowings if these people didnt exhist.

Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and Jedi all have huge followings, and only one of them had a basis in a real life character. The rest is "history".

Originally posted by Croat56
Did I say I believed in Buddha or Muhamed? NO. Although they were people who did exhist. Moses DID exhist. He exhiled the jews from egypt.

How do you know this for fact? Where is the real proof? It's your opinion....not a fact....and don't throw that "it's in the bible" at me...that doesn't prove it.

Well if you dont want me to get it from the bible then where do you want me to get it from? A time machine?

Originally posted by Croat56
Well if you dont want me to get it from the bible then where do you want me to get it from? A time machine?

The bible is not proof of anything....why would I want you to use an improvable book:, as proof...that makes no sense at allpuz:

Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by Croat56
Well if you dont want me to get it from the bible then where do you want me to get it from? A time machine?

The bible is not proof of anything....why would I want you to use an improvable book:, as proof...that makes no sense at allpuz:

Cause the bible was also a history book. History of what happened. If you dont want to believe it fine I dont care.

A history book that has been added to, deleted from, and changed countless times......

Originally posted by LadyV
A history book that has been added to, deleted from, and changed countless times......

So where is YOUR proof? That is your opinion not fact.

Doesnt feel to good does it

[edit on 2/3/05 by Croat56]

Originally posted by Croat56

Originally posted by LadyV
A history book that has been added to, deleted from, and changed countless times......

So where is YOUR proof? That is your opinion not fact.

Doesnt feel to good does it

[edit on 2/3/05 by Croat56]

Doesn't bother me a bit! I am very fair person! Earlier I did the same thing at someone saying that there is no god...I have no proof that any of it didn't exist..... that's not the point here, the point is, it's gets do damn old having people state opinion as if it is fact!

(see my response to mark ten at

www.abovetopsecret.com...

)

[edit on 3/2/2005 by LadyV]

You hate when people here post their opinions not fact. Yet you posted an opinion of yours not a fact. Whos is the hipocrit here?

Originally posted by Croat56
You hate when people here post their opinions not fact. Yet you posted an opinion of yours not a fact. Whos is the hipocrit here?

Where? Show me...I know very well, that my "veiws" are opinions...
What is your problem? You are obviously getting your temper up over simple discussion

EDIT: If your gonna say where I stated the bible has been added to, deleted from, and changed...that is not opinion, that is fact and history....all you have to do is study it for yourself...you do not have to take my word on that...learn your history..maybe you should debate while you are drunk... Good Christian that you are...

Love to stay and debate but I gotta go mash the matress...I'm sleepy!
Nite all....





[edit on 3/2/2005 by LadyV]

This is your hipocracy

A history book that has been added to, deleted from, and changed countless times......

Here you state your opinion.

it's gets do damn old having people state opinion as if it is fact!

And here you state that giving your opinion not fact is wrong.

Im sorry if I get angry about a post saying that my lord Jesus Christ did not exhist. How would you like it if I said wicca was the stupidest religion in the world and any1 who fallowed it was dumb? You wouldnt like it would you? Not that I am stating this( Dont want to get a warn. Theyve been going about like hotcakes)

Greetings ed,

Originally posted by edsinger
Least not forget ol Josephus shall we? This whole argument is crap and almost everyone here knows it, they might not be a follower but they know that a man with that name did live in those times and left one heck of a legacy for sure.....the most any 'man' ever did by far.....

But I also would count myself in the "He is my God" crowd and I will not be one bit ashamed to state it...even at work.

Josephus?

Josephus is NO EVIDENCE for Jesus :


Josephus (Flavianus) wrote Jewish Antiquities which nowadays contains a famous passage (the Testamonium Flavianum), which is not considered reliable evidence by most (non-Christian) scholars.

Josephus could not possibly have called Jesus the Christ - it flies in the face of his Jewish beliefs and the very theme of the book (which was about how there WAS no Messiah.)

Josephus spent whole pages on minor criminals (debunking any claims to be Christ) yet supposedly wrote a tiny passage about this allegedly most signficant character and events.

The passage INTERRUPTS the flow of the book, if it is removed, the chapter flows smoothly.

About a century later Origen comments that Josephus did not call Jesus the Christ - this, and other differences is CLEAR EVIDENCE that Origen's copy is not like our current copy - i.e. it has been TAMPERED with.

There are various versions of the passage, each are unlikely to have been written by Josephus - it was almost certainly inserted centuries later by Eusebius (whose copy of Josephus is the first to show this passage).


In other words - the Josephus passage at BEST has been tampered with, or at worst is a total FORGERY by Christians.

And this is the BEST EVIDENCE the Christians have - evidence that has clearly been tampered with or even FORGED outright.

This should one pause about how shaky the alleged "evidence" is.


Ed,
not long ago "everyone knew" the world was the immovable center of the universe - but they were WRONG weren't they?

But how long did it take the church to admit they were WRONG?
400 YEARS!

Most people believe Jesus existed because everyone else believes Jesus existed, because their parents etc. believed Jesus existed, because their parents believed ... all the way back to when NOT believing in Jesus got you BURNED at the stake !

The fact that Jesus is a myth is an idea whose time has come - the deadweight of close-minded believers such as yourself will only slow down the inevitable - but increasingly more and more scholars and people are coming to realise its all a story, legends, and myths...

You can PREACH all you want,
but when you are ready to deal with the FACTS,
you will find there is NO CONTEMPORARY EVIDENCE for Jesus at all.


I encourage readers here to CHECK the facts for yourselves -
go FIND out how reliable Josephus is :
www.humanists.net...


Iasion

And I disagree with you, for one lets agree that Mohammad lived and there is historical proof of that as well, well guess what? He also said He existed.

The problem here is one that is consistent among the anti-Jesus crowd. Note the common phrase used "non-Christian" scholars and authors.

Now think about that a minute and then take into account that even most Jews acknowledge this 'impostor in their eyes' existed.

If you go back to that time, Christians were a good portion of the populace and they recorded history as well as everyone else.


One other thing, by the logic that you claim to base your opinions on, you would then deny the existence of Hammurabi? Oh no because he had tablets and such with his name on it.....see the irony?


Same for Nebuchadnezzar ......


Julius Caeser....


and yes George Washington.........


Moses on the other hand and the Jews being granted freedom to leave was recorded in the Pharaohs history was it not?


You can continue to deny Him all you want, but remember that if you deny Him, He will deny you!