Deny Ignorance USA - Know thy neighbor

Hi All,

I have held off posting this because I thought the whole US / Mexico drama over immigration was just a phase but as time has gone on I can't help but be frustrated at the number of posts which are factually incorrect and show a complete lack of understanding toward Mexico.

These misconceptions are usually posted by US users, although not exclusively. If you live on the other side of the world, I can understand and accept that what you know about Mexico may be limited and will likely be only based on what you see on TV. However, if you live in the USA, I highly recommend actually getting to know your neighbour better and not just relying on what TV shows you. Common misconceptions I have seen in reference to Mexico include it being:

- "3rd world country".
1st, 2nd and 3rd world terms are a little bit outdated. However, Mexico is not a 3rd world country, in any way shape or form.

- "Dangerous"
Some part definitely are. Mexico is a big country with 32 states. But overall safety in Mexico can be compared to the US. Source

- "high crime level"
Similar to above, the crime is comparable to the US, however 14.21 crimes per 1000 people where the US has 41.29Source
I personally believe the reason for this is because, in Mexico, it is a small group of people that commit most of the crimes. As mentioned in the previous link, you are more likely to be raped or murdered in the US.

- "they all want to live in the USA"
Mexico's wealth is unevenly distributed among its people where 10 percent of nation's wealthiest have 42.2 percent of all income. Source this combined with the image the US presents of itself with the "American dream" is what is driving the poor to seek the US. Unfortunately, for those that pay a lot of money to get there, they will see the American dream is now a pipe dream as the majority of wealth in the US is also held by the rich and they will be working in low paying jobs without benefits if arriving illegally Source. I can't deny many in Mexico would love to live in the US, but they would soon see it is not what they envisioned.

-"low quality services"
Mexico has world class medical, educational and pretty much any other service you can think of. However, the difference is that in Mexico you pay for private services if you want quality. The amount you pay would generally be considered high to the average Mexican, but also usually works out being much cheaper for the same level of quality. This is why Mexico is often used for medical tourism.

-"the cartels"
Mexico's cartels and criminals tend to leave the general population alone, they are focused on ensuring their businesses run smoothly. Most crime committed is against those also involved in the crime. In some states, the people even turn to the cartels for protection against other corruption and abuse from outsiders. The cartels are businesses, nothing more. Yes, they operate differently when the rules are broken, but as they often back legal businesses, the people are their customers not their victims.

-"they exploit us"
Mexico is the victim in this relationship. There have been countless leaks showing the US corrupting everything from messing with their politics / democratic processes to encouraging drug trafficking (Source). The US exports Mexico with it's own oil, basically taking it from them and selling it back at a higher price. Also, keep in mind, for there to be exploitation from the outside, there needs to be someone on the inside - that goes both ways.


I could go on all day and post link after link to sources, but I will leave you to do your own research and form your own conclusions. If you really want to get to know Mexico, go visit one of the many safe places and have a look for yourself. If you don't want to get to know your neighbor, please at least keep your uninformed opinions to yourself and stop spreading ignorance.

Disclaimer: I was not sure what topic to post this under, mods please move if it is incorrect.

a reply to: byteshertz

- "high crime level"
Similar to above, the crime is comparable to the US, however 14.21 crimes per 1000 people where the US has 41.29Source

Umm maybe my math is bad but that's a crime rate almost 3 time or 300% more. That's not a "Comparable" rate at all. If I make 300% more than you in income, we aren't even in the same economic situations.

I would venture that a lit of crimes in the nasty parts of Mexico don't even get reported as well so the actual rate of crime is even worse.

a reply to: pavil

Yes, to clarify I meant overall it is comparable. However, if we are looking at crime per head of population exclusively, you are right that the US has almost 3 times more crimes committed per head.

Question for pro Mexico person; does the "American Southwest" technically belong to Mexico?

Oh I(we) get to know our neighbors, and if we find out they're illegal to ICE they go!

a reply to: Fools

This is not WWF/WWE there is no good guy vs bad guy in this world despite what political systems would like us to think.
In the real world, every entity's character is a shade of grey. So, therefore, I would not consider myself pro Mexican.

To answer your question though, who legally owns anything? The person with the biggest gun with a claim on it.

originally posted by: byteshertz
a reply to: Fools

This is not WWF/WWE there is no good guy vs bad guy in this world despite what political systems would like us to think.
In the real world, every entities character is a shade of grey. So, therefore, I would not consider myself pro Mexican.

To answer your question though, who legally owns anything? The person with the biggest gun with a claim on it.

Good answer - I think. Personally I have never been to Mexico. Stats on the place make it look pretty bad. I have heard from a friend that had dual citizenship that its great and another that they hate it. To me it seems like it is stuck economically because of the whole Catholic/socialist power structure that exists there. It's not a growth system its a status quo system. Seems to affect most countries south of the US boarder. Except Costa Rica for some odd reason. I hear that country is the bees knees.

a reply to: byteshertz

-"the cartels" Mexico's cartels and criminals tend to leave the general population alone, they are focused on ensuring their businesses run smoothly. Most crime committed is against those also involved in the crime. In some states, the people even turn to the cartels for protection against other corruption and abuse from outsiders. The cartels are businesses, nothing more. Yes, they operate differently when the rules are broken, but as they often back legal businesses, the people are their customers not their victims.

WARNING: This video is not pretty



Tell me again about how the cartels leave the people alone?

a reply to: byteshertz

We also have 3 times the population, so it does correlate.

A lot of American's only know whats told to them about Mexico or anything outside of the US for that matter. Gullible minds eat it up.

a reply to: Fools

Thanks

Mexico is a mixed bag, there are good parts and bad parts.
Some things work better, some things don't work at all.
For foreigners, it will usually come down to the person and their financial position. It isn't a place where you would want to be poor as there is not much assistance from the govt, but if you have the money (not much needed by US standards), it has a lot to offer. There will always be things that are a bit backwards and frustrating though.

I do confess I have a bit of a soft spot for Mexico. I was in Mexico city during the big quakes (I'm a kiwi - New Zealander) and I have never seen so much support anywhere. The quakes hit with an armageddon like force, I have never felt something so terrifying and have been in big quakes before. Mexico city is built on top of a lake so everything from the 7.2 quake was amplified. Within minutes afterwards, I saw human chains forming - people lining up down the streets passing buckets helping to remove debris from fallen buildings this for me was a big eye opener as when something was lacking (in this case enough emergency services to go around) the people stepped up to fill the gaps, risking their own lives for each other. Not the best example, but my point is things are often handled differently and it can be painful when you are used to having a different process, but it still works.

Well, lets just see what the State Department has to say.....hmmmm

travel.state.gov...


Yup, just as I suspected.

a reply to: lakenheath24

That's right. Listen and do as they say.

a reply to: byteshertz

Mexico's cartels and criminals tend to leave the general population alone

One of the dumbest statements ever made on ATS.

a reply to: Secretrooster

Didn't even read it did ya? I can tell.


I always look at travel advisories before I take a trip anywhere. Kinda embarrassing turning up in the middle of a civil war ya know.

a reply to: byteshertz

Mind your own business. The old fashion way.

originally posted by: Fools
Question for pro Mexico person; does the "American Southwest" technically belong to Mexico?

No, but a lot of our culture and traditions come from Mexico. It's not unusual to hear Spanish being spoken or to find first and second generation legal migrants from Mexico. Mexican restaurants (love the food!) here in our are generally employ those whose first language is Spanish, so it's fun to go in and order in Spanish to brush up my language skills.

Currently the population of our area (Texas) is generally 1/3 Hispanic (from people whose ancestors always lived here to most recent immigrants) -- and about 1/3 Black and 1/3 White.

In the 1800's the proportions of Hispanics to Whites was much higher all across the Southwest (in some areas it's 90=96% more Hispanics than Whites. This changed when Whites moved into the area and bought or appropriated lands belonging to the Hispanic people (ranchos, haciendas, etc. Old Time Radio programs have a good one about California... "The Romance of the Ranchos" which is about how these large Hispanic properties got turned into smaller developments by both White and Hispanic people.

a reply to: AgarthaSeed

Based on what? Your preconception of what happens there? I can spam a load of sources showing that most victims there are already known affiliates.

Edit to add: So far you have taken one line of what I wrote and said it is the stupidest thing you have heard. I would love to know your other thoughts, reasoning, and sources since you are obviously very wise. Please enlighten me.

originally posted by: Secretrooster
A lot of American's only know whats told to them about Mexico or anything outside of the US for that matter. Gullible minds eat it up.

This is by far my favorite post!

I don’t care about Mexico one way or the other. I have been there several times and overall I enjoyed my time there. I don’t mind legal immigration from Mexico or anywhere else, however, I am against illegal immigration, human trafficking and drugs that come from Mexico.

I don’t know why you are trying to tell us how awesome Mexico is and frankly I don’t care. I don’t plan to live there so they can do whatever the hell they want. I just ask that they keep their illegals, drugs and crime to themselves and out of the United States.