People should not count on Social Security

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: EternalShadow

When most people think they’re planning properly and then don’t, yes it is because that situation will likely happen to you too. And even if it doesn’t it’s in your self interest for people to not be destitute in retirement because it keeps the economy moving.

Not likely at all. I'm squared away. My interests are just that, MINE, not someone else's! Nor do I expect others to carry me. Learned that from my father, God bless him.

Doesn't matter anyway. Your precious economy will implode well before Social Security runs out. Those that didn't plan and even those that did under mutual funds, 401k's, and the like will be wiped out.

Plan accordingly.

originally posted by: Samanth9956
Lazy intellect...

Noted.

Hypocritical deflection...

Noted.

a reply to: EternalShadow

Well first of all society should help each other so your premise is flawed.

But second of all; I’ve seen far too many people demand others help them. If you were going to die due to a lack of money for medical treatment, would you willingly die rather than try to live a bit longer?

What is your thought on insurance? That is others paying your way.

the disability and pension parts of Social Security will dissolve into 'Welfare' recipients...

until the planned Universal Income Allowance is brought-up-to-speed, and all SSI/SSDI/SS/Refugee Status persons are then covered (along with the homeless & financial Disadvantaged ,... chronic welfare clients)

the ones that transitioned from their contracted Social Security payments into the Universal Fund will not have to report Annual updates like the welfare class must do ---but that's hardly a benefit since the former SS recipients qualified for their pension by being taxed additional monies during their earning years !


make no mistake, the legal rules will be transferred, but the payouts by Government will be reclassified as 'other' than Unfunded Liabilities in the soon-2-be future....

Its All accounting maneuvors/manipulations to save-the-USD-Value...
as the idea of 'wealth' will not be familiar to the Peons...
the constant ebb-flow of money exchange for goods/services/et al is the poor populations economy that keeps the system up-&-running
'wealth' is for the speculators & top 10%...and upward mobility will be for the 'Favored' top 60%...the bottom 40% are the bread & circuses group

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: EternalShadow

Well first of all society should help each other so your premise is flawed.

But second of all; I’ve seen far too many people demand others help them. If you were going to die due to a lack of money for medical treatment, would you willingly die rather than try to live a bit longer?

What is your thought on insurance? That is others paying your way.

Using the word "should/shouldn't" is merely a passive aggressive way of projecting ones values and ethics on others. You shouldn't do that. See what I mean?
My "premise" is flawed only because it conflicts with your set of beliefs or personal preferences, ie., your own 'right and wrong' meter.
Just for clarity, no one is beholden to your meter.

Demanding and asking are too very different approaches. The government DEMANDS I may pay into a slush fund that covers everyone "just in case".

There are essentially three types of people as it pertains to this topic:

1. Prepared
2. Unprepared
3. Purposely or inherently oblivious

Do unfortunate and unforeseen events occur?
Of course they do.
However, there are quite a few out there that are TOTALLY dependent on Social Security, yet could not touch it during its maturation if they felt their hard earned dollars would be better invested elsewhere.
Social Security isn't made to empower and enrich your life, it's made to bleed you out and payout crumbs. They increase the age limit in an effort to curtail that payout. No, it's not because people are living longer.
They are hoping you don't so they won't have to payout any benefits.

Life insurance is one thing. "Societal insurance" is another. I'm not individually responsible for societal outcomes, nor is it anyone's fault for others choices.

You seem to be trying to guilt trip me.

Not cool or effective.

originally posted by: EternalShadow
Life insurance is one thing. "Societal insurance" is another. I'm not individually responsible for societal outcomes, nor is it anyone's fault for others choices.

Yes you are, unless you reject society. But considering you’re typing this by using a computer produced by society, and transmitting it over publicly funded infrastructure, that was built using research conducted with public funds, and maintained through a company that relies on society to fund it... I’m pretty sure you aren’t rejecting any such part of society.

You’re just trying to get out of paying back some of what you owe.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: EternalShadow
Life insurance is one thing. "Societal insurance" is another. I'm not individually responsible for societal outcomes, nor is it anyone's fault for others choices.

Yes you are, unless you reject society. But considering you’re typing this by using a computer produced by society, and transmitting it over publicly funded infrastructure, that was built using research conducted with public funds, and maintained through a company that relies on society to fund it... I’m pretty sure you aren’t rejecting any such part of society.

You’re just trying to get out of paying back some of what you owe.

Um.. no I'm not.

I don't owe anything to another person just because they exist. Who are you or anyone else to tell another person how they are to be or what they "owe"??

"Pay your fair share".... of what??

Explain "fair"! It all goes to interest on loans given to the treasury by the federal reserve. We are paying debt with debt!!
Get a clue. This isn't a fair and balanced system. Its probably the most corrupt and evil form of monetary policy ever conceived and implemented!

....and you think Social Security is a win win.
(...yawn...)

Obviously it's not working and is inevitably going to fail, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

a reply to: EternalShadow

Yes, as it's currently being run it will fail. That's because it's supposed to be paid for via taxes, but most of the wages in the country are exempt from the tax. Only the poor and middle class pay significant amounts into it. The wealthy are exempt since money above a certain threshold isn't included.

Social Security is funded through a flat tax. This is why flat taxes are a failure of a policy.

SS will be there forever the lawyers will make sure of that. Nothing to worry about.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: musicismagic

originally posted by: jjkenobi
Not only am I not counting on social security. I'm betting all our 401k's will be raided at some point in the next 20-30 years before I retire.

May I ask you what is a 401 k and do you have complete control over it?

401k's are designed to be retirement accounts. They're tax privileged and Americans can contribute a certain amount to them per year, 19,500 in 2019. These accounts are managed by private investment companies, and the money can be placed in several different types of investments.

There's two main types offered, one lets you invest money now after paying taxes on it, and the other lets you invest your pre tax money and you pay taxes when it's withdrawn. Mathematically they work out the same, but investing pre tax money is easier for most folks. The main advantage to a 401k over other investment accounts is that a frequent perk employers offer in the US is for the company to match your investment up to a certain point.

The real problem is that most people only save for retirement by investing in their 401k. But, even if you were to max that out with a good match it doesn't put enough aside for retirement. And that is why we have such a problem with gen x and younger not being on track to ever be able to retire.

Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me. But are these investments backed by the US govt.? If not, can the 401k's go bankrupt ?

I retired in 2014 after selling a small business. ( and a big building) But I was not eligible for social security until this year.
Starting in August.

a reply to: EternalShadow

Plenty of people are happy to pay taxes to fund the government and its programs.
Many consider it a privilege. He is not an anomaly.

a reply to: musicismagic

They aren’t backed by the government and yes they can go bankrupt, it’s uncommon because the funds are generally well run, but if people make bad investments they can and often do lose money.

They rely on the premise that people can make smart investment choices and manage their own money while completely ignoring the fact that the average person is an unsophisticated investor and will have far smaller gains than is necessary, if they have any at all. As such, most people put their money in actively managed funds which have huge fees and still cost the 401k owners most of their money.

By the time I am 67, over $600,000 will be paid into Social Security on my behalf.

That money would have been worth $1.9M if i had gotten a 5% return. My annual interest would be $95k.

The Government promises me $3,075/month at 67, which is $37k/year....

HOW IS THIS NOT THEFT!!?????

a reply to: EternalShadow

Well. Had we not sabotaged Social Security which forced the payments to be lower. Also, if we actually taxed the wealthy on Social Security payouts would be higher.

It’s theft, but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad system. It means the Republicans stole from you.

Also, 1.9 million at a 3% drawdown (2% is better) would be $4750/month and you’re getting $3075/month right now. So you’re not that far off despite all the sabotage that has happened.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: EternalShadow


It’s theft, but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad system.

This is where you lost me and the argument. Geezus...

a reply to: EternalShadow

It means it’s in need of reform, the concept is very solid just like any sort of pension system. You shouldn’t damn the system because those who oversee it have screwed things up.