Ananuki are a traveling hunting/gathering caravan?

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
So ya,they were the Annuanki just here for the troupe animals for there galactic circus. Didn't you see that pictorial the Sumerians had on there walls of one of them with a little man monkey on his lap?

No.
But I've seen the relief of a Phoenician bearing monkeys as tribute to an Assyrian king.
It's on the wall of Ashurnasirpal II's palace.
The writing on it tells you what it is.
Odd, that.

Harte

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

I'm not sure this hypothesis holds water. Just presenting it for review?

It has some flaws.

Suppose the Ananuki are aliens that travel at a speed lower than light, but fairly close to light. They are nomads. They have no planet (at least not anymore.)

...the first being that you don't know how big space is.

If they're traveling at light speed, it would take them 4 years to get to the nearest star with at least one planet. Then it'd take at least 15 years to go from that one to the NEXT nearest star with planets (2 of them). And it's closer to 20 years to get to a star with 5 planets if they go to one of those and then on to the 5 planet star. infographic of 20 closest stars (don't let the distances fool you... those are distances from Earth, not from the one star to the next one.)

And that's at light speed. So the furthest they could get from Earth (but probably would't) is 10,000 light years which isn't very far at all - around 1/10th the distance to the center of this galaxy. So that limits them to this group

Yours is by far the most intelligent response I've gotten so far, but I think you're misunderstanding the way special relativity works. They're near the speed of light, just not quite there yet.

It is confusing, because from the traveler's perspective what happens is Length contraction. As a space traveler begins to approach the speed of light, the distances between all objects in the "stationary" frame of reference in their direction of travel appear to shorten.

So if you departed from Earth, traveling toward Proxima Centauri, and then accelerated to nearly the speed of light, it would appear to you as though Earth and Proxima Centauri had length contracted to be nearer to each other.

You might perceive the trip to have taken only a few days (but not have been a very far distance). Meanwhile people observing from Earth would perceive the trip had taken 4+ years.

They have several resupply locations that they've set up around this area of the galaxy, and they visit them in a regular cycle. Earth is one of them. Its biosphere allows them to get things like air, water, and food, if they begin to run short of those things.

They'd be a pretty low tech bunch, then since you can harvest basic molecules in space. Or from comets and asteroids and moons and gas giants.

They might have taken up their lifestyle very soon after acquiring the minimum technology needed to reach speeds near the speed of light.

Which means they might not be very far past us. And there may be some technologies in our possession that their culture kind of skipped.

If they come from a low gravity world, then getting into space would have been easier for them, and they might have achieved it at an earlier time in their technological history.

From our perspective they stop by about every 21,000 years. From their perspective it's more like 20 years (because they are traveling near the speed of light most of the time.)

There's a big disjoint in tech right there. They can somehow travel at near light speed... but they can't scoop raw molecules out of space or from gas giants and then retool them? In the next section you say they can manipulate genetics... but how can they do this if they can't even cobble together things out of simple hydrocarbons (found in comets and on gas giants)

Technically, all you need to do is build a very big Hadron Collider in space, and use it to eject propellant at relativistic speeds.

We already have the technology. It's just a very, very , very expensive project, with no guarantee of a pay off.

Humans were engineered from apes, and live here mostly just to make it easier for them to get supplies, as well as for entertainment and something interesting for their scientists to study.

And here you run afoul of paleontology and fossil evidence, which shows a pretty clear progression. However, the path to modern humans is full of twists and branches. There wasn't just one human species until just recently -- there were multiple human species living on the planet at the same time (h. erectus was contemporary with australopithecus and Neanderthal and Denisivonians and h. florenesis... etc.) And most of those have contributed genes to our kind.

They might have improved on their own designs over time. Or waited to see where things went, before making adjustments here and there.

And why would some group that had space travel at near light speed fear some group with nuclear weapons? That's like a SWAT team being terrified of six toddlers with slingshots. If they can travel at near light speeds, they've harnessed unimaginable energy and technology. They could probably instantly teleport every nuke on Earth into their holodeck just for the fun of it.

They're not afraid we'll use the nukes against them.

They're afraid we'll ruin our biosphere, and they'll lose their investment.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Not bad but a few logical flaws or gaps?? .Now presuming they 1st came here 20k years ago ( our time ) and as some say they periodically come back and cull and/or destroy our civ if it gets too advanced, why do you make the assumption that they haven't mass/energy converters and food replicators or even if they haven't progressed to a bio-mechanoid, not needing fresh food or air?

Humans have, at present, the ability to synthesize diesel and gasoline from air and water by adding electricity. (Reverse Water Gas Shift reaction, followed by Fischer Tropsch).

marspedia.org...

However it is far cheaper to simply pump it from the ground.

Similarly, a mass/energy converter would use insane amounts of energy to make synthetic foods. It would be far less expensive and troublesome to just have a biosphere handy for resupply. (And the food would probably taste better.)

Again I'm making assumptions as well but lets move on:

Because time passes so slowly for them, their technology is stagnant compared to ours. It is very advanced, but it is not growing.

If they are into genetic husbandry they would have figured out by now that novelty has to be introduced every so often to keep from inbreeding and also getting bored.

Furthermore what if they've left behind human/Anunnaki who can communicate with their space tripping cousins?

"Hey cuz - no need to nuke Earth yet, Earth cant even return to the moon let alone move to Titan or Ganymede. We're good for another 200 years. The Galaxy is safe from humans for now."

It's not that their scientists are no longer good at coming up with new ideas.

It's the time dilation factor. 20 years is passing for them while 21,000 years pass for us. We're getting 21,000 years of research during a time frame where they only get 20 years of research.

a reply to: Harte

Its out there, In fact I looked for it, Found the drawing one, but could not find the one that was in carved in stone. Oh well, back flips are overrated. But past the 3 minute mark, well its to much time to waste on finding a picture online of the creation of the human race. A dull subject.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

I'm not sure this hypothesis holds water. Just presenting it for review?

It has some flaws.

Suppose the Ananuki are aliens that travel at a speed lower than light, but fairly close to light. They are nomads. They have no planet (at least not anymore.)

...the first being that you don't know how big space is.

If they're traveling at light speed, it would take them 4 years to get to the nearest star with at least one planet. Then it'd take at least 15 years to go from that one to the NEXT nearest star with planets (2 of them). And it's closer to 20 years to get to a star with 5 planets if they go to one of those and then on to the 5 planet star. infographic of 20 closest stars (don't let the distances fool you... those are distances from Earth, not from the one star to the next one.)

And that's at light speed. So the furthest they could get from Earth (but probably would't) is 10,000 light years which isn't very far at all - around 1/10th the distance to the center of this galaxy. So that limits them to this group

I'm sorry. I see I had previously misunderstood your argument.

You're saying 10,000 light years is really only the local cluster of stars. That is true.

However, there are actually quite a lot of potential candidates for life in just the nearest 50 light years.

en.wikipedia.org...

Apparently 15% of the 2,000 nearby stars have Earth sized planets in the habitable zone for their star. So 300 candidates.


It seems only 64 of those stars are similar to our sun, though. A lot of the planets orbit red suns. (So.... plenty of potential homes for Superman.)

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Woodcarver
Space is big, there are like a gazillion quatromegagillion other planets that have everything this planet is made of in a gazillion other configurations and in spades, out in space. So ya,they were the Annuanki just here for the troupe animals for there galactic circus. Didn't you see that pictorial the Sumerians had on there walls of one of them with a little man monkey on his lap?

What did you think they were doing? Thats right, teaching him to do back flips and other tricks. Quite obviously, humans were created purely for entertainment.

As for Kirk and star trek? Well, since they never show anybody going to the bathroom, then quite obviously they have conquered the problem of pooping. Or at the very least, they may have become advanced enough to solve the issue of toilet paper. They would need to literally have a whole forest on there ship, just to make toilet-paper on any long journey.

Yup. What people wipe there asses with, is the true mark of how civilized and at what technological advancement stage there at. All that other stuff about, boldly going were no man has gone before? That's just silly, as if, and because if they do not solve the issue of toilet paper and were does the # go, they would be knee deep in that stuff by the time they reach the nearest planet.

That's why nobody on Star Trek ever #s.

I'd rather # in my hands & clap than beliieve any of the theories tptb allow us to be taught as true history. Until I see a pov doco on you tube from a traveller- I aint buying none of it cause no one knows for sure & speculation from a present day human with fancy tertiary education &/or letters after his/her name is no more definate than speculation from a present day human high school drop out stoner as they are producing the exact same result from thinking = mere speculation & not proof definitive.
So how about a round of applause.......no wait !!!!!

Why? Haven't you ever been told that the Star Wars story is a cleverly masked history of what you mention? If you don't know why they don't have a planet anymore, watch the movies. Don't ask me how, but someone figured out why they're traveling nomads, going from solar system to solar system, leeching off of planets resources and making chimpanzee men for fun and novelty.

No, not really. No one has ever told me that a franchise of movies for kids actually depicts something factual and historical, no. Who told you that? Was it George Lucas himself who confessed to you the truth? Did he tell you that an Alien Historian passed him along galactic chronicles of what happened so long ago, in a place so far away?

Got proof?

Which brings me to another question I havent found the answer to. How do they reproduce? Do they just make new ones in a test tube of sorts, being genetic masters? They made us after all. Do they have sex? If you can answer this question with even the vaguest guess, you're making science fiction up because no one knows, how could they?

Didn't you watch the movie Prometheus?? Don't the Engineers have sex organs like human beings??

They made us after all.

They did? A very lousy job, don't you think? Short men, obese men, bald men, ugly men, mentally retarded men. Most people suffer from one genetic problem one way or another. Godlike beings, men who are perfect and untouched by sickness(Cristiano Ronaldo/Brad Pitt/Henry Cavill/Luke Evans/Henry Cavill(Chris Evans/Chris Pine/Tom Cruise; alright he's short so that's one genetic defect he has)

I mean, don't you think a species so advanced as to create a whole new one - engineered from monkeys or apes no less LOL - would do a much better job of what passes for the ''average'' man in North America, England, Australia, and so on?

What makes you believe without a doubt that Mankind was created by an Alien species? Do you have anything concrete that we can sink our teeth in about it?

But I thought it said in the Bible The sons of god saw the daughters of Man and found them to be pleasing, and married them?? isn't the Bible rich with historical retelings of the Annunaki coming down from the Heavens to mingle with Mankind???

"We captured injured ones from a crashed craft. They're at Area 51. Don't ask me how or why they crash after travelling light years to come here with advanced technology but they crash like humans do."

We did? Who? Americans? Russians? Chinese? That male model from an Abercrombie & Fitch store that tried to get into my pants not even an hour ago?

Where are these so-called Aliens we've captured? Area 51?! How do you know they are there? Who told you?! Did you see them?! Or do you know a guy who knows a guy who used to work at a gas station back in the 40s and he claims to have seen the alien bodies?

Like in a computer game.

Do you think the Annunaki have millions of young adults(18-28) going about their lives, playing video games all day long and being useless all around?? I wonder. I wonder if the Annunaki have their own version of ATS, where their members discussing if we reproduce through sex or by watching hentai.

but instead decided to be renegade space pirates having fun with DNA. But, their technology is stagnant because they travel so fast.

Yeah! techonology becomes stagant because they travel so fast and their brains are suffering from galatic solar jetlag!

Seems legit.

I missed the memo on that one. Who figured out that it was 2013? The Mayans? December 21st, 2012 was just a slip up in the math.

It was actually designed to happen in 2019. All of the other previsions were wrong because Coronation Street was waiting to release the new season, and the Aliens didn't want Humanity to get culled before they find out what is going to happen to their favorite characters. So, when the Alien harvesting or culling or w/e doesn't happen this year - it's because the Mayans and the Azetcs and the fans of Juventus F.C were wrong, and it's actually supposed to take place in 2021!

I feel you there, something like that. We're laymen talking about things far beyond human awareness. Secret information that answers why and how we got here, things gurus and saints never even knew. We're bound to make mistakes while interpreting and rehashing the information.

Yeah, about that. If you want to learn about human evolution, where we come from, and where we might going to from here - you might want to pick up a few books on archeology, History, Antrophology, and medicine.

Don't pay attention to mentally ill people that believe they talk to gods and saints and all that nonsense.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Harte

Its out there, In fact I looked for it, Found the drawing one, but could not find the one that was in carved in stone. Oh well, back flips are overrated. But past the 3 minute mark, well its to much time to waste on finding a picture online of the creation of the human race. A dull subject.

Sumerian and akkadian depictions of creation actually show a human, not a monkey.

Here's a link to the monkey I mentioned (ATS won't let me post pics because I use an ad blocker): Phoenician bringing monkeys in tribute to Ashunasirpal II

Harte

a reply to: fotsyfots
Well like Napoleon once said, history is a fable agreed upon.

I always find it funny that nobody or anybody not even the most sophisticated computes we have can predict what will happen in a few years, and the majority of people dont even know what is happening right in there back yard, or right under there very noses. And how many would have predicted the internet a few generations ago?

But somehow we are so sure about what happened a few thousand or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands or even millions of years ago, based on pottery fragments and a fossilized pinky toe bone. And now were even postulating how the universe came to be some untold billions of years ago.

Meanwhile, we have been trying to balance the budget these past few hundred years, and figure out a stable hierarchy system or government for the past few thousands of years, and all that ain't looking like its going to happen anytime soon.

So ya, the world is a magical thing and place. Who are you to question what you to question that? As for space and whats out there. Well baring the moon landing, which some people question, no human has ever went past near orbit and yes the space station is in near orbit, or low orbit, not technically even in space. Lets just say we may know a whole lot less then we like to think we do.

But baring all that and 99% of everything out there. In all, who cares. Not like it matters to any living person anyways. Just enjoy the ride while you can.

a reply to: Harte
Ya, a human who is about knee high, has a beard, and also thumbs on his feet, sitting on the lap of another bearded dude who is more then half his size, also for some reason I think he was holding a pinecone or it was depicted over them.

Like I said, I did not bother putting all that much effort in finding said depiction. Or it may be on one of the other Internets. Either way, not like it matters. You seem to be overly concerned with this monkey man thing.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird
Probably a modern work, faked up for some website.

It's easy enough to find Sumerian and Akkadian depictions of creation.

My main concerns are accuracy, the ATS motto and providing information - such as the monkey pic I linked.

Harte

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

If you are gonna accept the idea that the anunalki exist why not just accept the reason for them messing with earth that is giving in the ancient myths?

They needed the gold that was plentiful on this planet to repair their own atmosphere which of I am remembering right they damaged in a war. Then when their own people started whining the work was too hard they messes with the evoulutionary track of our ancient nonhuman ancestors till they came up with a perfect slave race. This would explain why man has placed such a high value on a metal that really had very little use in primitive societies outside of being a status symbol.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

If you are gonna accept the idea that the anunalki exist why not just accept the reason for them messing with earth that is giving in the ancient myths?

They needed the gold that was plentiful on this planet to repair their own atmosphere which of I am remembering right they damaged in a war. Then when their own people started whining the work was too hard they messes with the evoulutionary track of our ancient nonhuman ancestors till they came up with a perfect slave race. This would explain why man has placed such a high value on a metal that really had very little use in primitive societies outside of being a status symbol.

Er,
That's not in any ancient myth.

Harte

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
but I think you're misunderstanding the way special relativity works. They're near the speed of light, just not quite there yet.

I think I have a reasonable grasp of it. I do know about red and blue shifts and about time dilation and compression and the relationship of mass and energy and speec.

It is confusing, because from the traveler's perspective what happens is Length contraction. As a space traveler begins to approach the speed of light, the distances between all objects in the "stationary" frame of reference in their direction of travel appear to shorten.

So if you departed from Earth, traveling toward Proxima Centauri, and then accelerated to nearly the speed of light, it would appear to you as though Earth and Proxima Centauri had length contracted to be nearer to each other.

Yes, the frame of reference of the traveler changes but the universe's experience with time and space (distance) doesn't change. (I taught physics and calculus.)

They might have taken up their lifestyle very soon after acquiring the minimum technology needed to reach speeds near the speed of light.

Which means they might not be very far past us. And there may be some technologies in our possession that their culture kind of skipped.

They would need to use transuranium elements (including ones that we haven't discovered) to power the engines. You couldn't do it with diesel. It takes around 627,200,000,000 Joules of energy to go from the Earth to space (reference) That's 6.27 x 10 (to the 11th power) and that's if you have a 100,000 pound object.

Now...because I want to talk TJ (terajoules) like this page, note that the above figure equals 627,000 TJ (reference of energy in joules of varoius bombs)

Now...this just gets you to escape velocity from Earth (wherever they were, they had to leave the planet and then the solar system. And if you look at the page there, it's 150 million tons of TNT (which weighs more than the ship so you'd have to add more TNT...and so on.)

Which is why we don't use TNT (I'm getting to the point) - we use a high energy fuel that is just enough to get us into orbit. In order to get to half light speed, we have to keep accelerating (burning fuel) ... I think you can see that even with our current fuels, it would probably take a ship several generations of constantly running that engine (constant acceleration) to get near light speed. You can't do it too quickly or the G forces will crush whatever's inside (another reference on acceleration and force)

That means (whew! Conclusion!) they have to have a more powerful fuel than we have, which means more advanced chemistry (and probably use of transuranium elements)... and all that means they need to know how to build and break down molecules.

And they have to store the fuel (whatever it is)... we proposed ram scoops that grabbed it out of space, but there's undoubtedly other methods.

So they have to have better fuels, better engines (much!) and they have to be able to refuel with a fuel that isn't going to weigh a lot. In addition, they can't just fire up the engines and go straight to near light speeds unless they've got some really high tech protecting the folks inside.

If they come from a low gravity world, then getting into space would have been easier for them, and they might have achieved it at an earlier time in their technological history.

Maybe. But they still run into the fuel weight problem and high acceleration problem.

Technically, all you need to do is build a very big Hadron Collider in space, and use it to eject propellant at relativistic speeds.

From Wikipedia, the output of the Large Hadron Collider is one millionth of a joule (reference) You would need to build (if I haven't dropped a zero) 7,000,000,000,000,000 Large Hadron Colliders to power one ship to get it off the ground. But... 7 quadrillion LHCs is going to take up a lot of space and add a lot of weight.

I don't think that's plausible. And even then, that just gets you into Earth orbit. It doesn't accelerate you to near light speed (not enough energy.)

They might have improved on their own designs over time. Or waited to see where things went, before making adjustments here and there.

Again, you're running into time and number problems. Let's say you hop down and give Tribe A the mutation for blue eyes (and assume they don't kill each other, thinking they're cursed). Unless you sit and monitor, you can't guarantee that they won't be wiped out by a drought, elephant stampede, war with another clan, flash flood, or any other disaster.

So you do it to an entire continent, haul yourselves into your ship, and spend the next 5 years accelerating out of our solar system and another 5 or 7 to near light speed (which you only see as a few months....but meanwhile back on Earth a generation has passed.)

And unintended consequences of your unmonitered experiment could wreak havoc on the population. Because humans are also subject to genetic change through environmental factors. We don't live in a Petri dish. So a gene tweak could kill off every human or trigger a zoonotic disease (disease transmitted from animals to humans ... like rabies...) that wipes out both the humans and the animals....

And meantime your experiments elsewhere are also doing things you didn't plan on.

They're not afraid we'll use the nukes against them.

They're afraid we'll ruin our biosphere, and they'll lose their investment.

Again, I think this idea runs afoul of time and economics.

I did look it up. At 99% light speed, time is slowed by a factor of 7... so one day of ship time equals one week in the regular universe. It'd take 3-4 moths (ship time) to travel to the nearest star to Earth (but the rest of the universe sees them gone for almost 5 years) -- not counting the time when they had to slow to regular orbital speed or accelerate out of orbital speed. So, say 6 months.

Say a year if they had to just go to the nearest star, offload cargo quickly and sell it and then hotfoot it back to Earth... ten years later. But here's the problem -- do the folks at home still want what you sent them off for ten years ago? Or if you're taking it further, do they still want what you decided to collect a hundred years ago? Or a thousand years ago?

Probably not, IMHO.

...and then you run into competition. Because while Star Nomad Group is wandering the galaxy and not doing technology, everyone else is staying at home in a resource rich environment and making new tech. When they go back a hundred years later, they're out of touch and really out of date.

These are some of the weaknesses of the "Annunaki theory."

Whoops! I didn't answer about the 'ruin the biosphere'

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
They're not afraid we'll use the nukes against them.

They're afraid we'll ruin our biosphere, and they'll lose their investment.

The Atomic Fear movies really hyped up "everybody drops the bomb and things go to heck" idea because it makes great cinema. Yes, we could certainly do some damage... BUT... past disasters have done as much as atomic warfare and worse.

Allow me to introduce the Siberian Traps (and be lazy and quote from Wikipedia)

The massive eruptive event that formed the traps is one of the largest known volcanic events in the last 500 million years.

The eruptions continued for roughly two million years and spanned the P–T boundary, or the Permian–Triassic boundary, which occurred between 251 to 250 million years ago.[1][2]

Large volumes of basaltic lava covered a large expanse of Siberia in a flood basalt event. Today, the area is covered by about seven million km2 (2.7 million sq mi) of basaltic rock, with a volume of around four million km3 (0.96 million cu mi)

So... we're not likely to keep bombing ourselves constantly for a period of 2 million years. But the Earth... yes, can do that and worse for a very long time. Other events that "ruined the biosphere" include the rise of blue-green algae that put oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere (originally not oxygen)... and so on and so forth throughout history. Geology is full of these events.

We're pikers compared to Mother Earth.

a reply to: Byrd

We're pikers compared to Mother Earth.

We try harder.

a reply to: Harte
Does it matter? But ya, whoever did that monkey depictions that you posted are likely the same sort of people that did the bearded man monkey guy sitting on the other bearded guys lap. I truly don't care either way.

Either way, backflips are overrated.

We try harder.

Nah, Mankind will probably go extinct, and planet Earth won't shed a tear over it. No creature has hurt this planet more than Mankind

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

If you are gonna accept the idea that the anunalki exist why not just accept the reason for them messing with earth that is giving in the ancient myths?

They needed the gold that was plentiful on this planet to repair their own atmosphere which of I am remembering right they damaged in a war. Then when their own people started whining the work was too hard they messes with the evoulutionary track of our ancient nonhuman ancestors till they came up with a perfect slave race. This would explain why man has placed such a high value on a metal that really had very little use in primitive societies outside of being a status symbol.

Er,
That's not in any ancient myth.

Harte

I agree Harte , and the more I learn about mono-atomic gold and the Alchemy behind it and the origin of the so called "precious metals" the more I begin to believe that the gold has a much more valuable place in someones basic needs list , it is entirely possible that all water planets are seeded with biological lifeforms which in the long run produce these materials we call "precious metals"....there could be a much much bigger UNIVERSAL picture in play here.Similar to the Spice Trade in Dune.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Harte
Does it matter? But ya, whoever did that monkey depictions that you posted are likely the same sort of people that did the bearded man monkey guy sitting on the other bearded guys lap. I truly don't care either way.

Either way, backflips are overrated.

Could be. The pic is representing tribute being paid to an Assyrian king. There could be some depiction out there somewhere of a king with a monkey on his lap.
Couldn't find such a depiction though. Couldn't find anything written about one either.

Harte