Universal healthcare is indentured servitude and a weapon

This is a report from Canada. What is Bernie Sanders proposing in order to keep these wait-times from being duplicated in a U.S. "Medicare for All" system?

This edition of Waiting Your Turn indicates that, overall, waiting times for medically necessary treatment have in-creased since last year. Specialist physicians surveyed report a median waiting time of 21.2 weeks between referral from a general practitioner and receipt of treatment—longer than the wait of 20.0 weeks reported in 2016.

This year’s wait time—the longest ever recorded in this survey’s history—is 128% longer than in 1993, when it was just 9.3 weeks.

There is a great deal of variation in the total waiting time faced by patients across the provinces. Ontario reports the shortest total wait (15.4 weeks), while New Brunswick reports the longest (41.7 weeks).

There is also a great deal of variation among specialties. Patients wait longest between a GP referral and orthopaedic surgery (41.7 weeks), while those waiting for medical oncology begin treatment in 3.2 weeks.

MORE AT: www.fraserinstitute.org...

Getting rid of private healthcare and forcing everyone to Medicare, is not smart. It would greatly reduce the burden on the Medicare system, if PRIVATE health insurance was allowed continued existence. Many millions of Americans would opt to get private health insurance, thereby reducing the potential load on the Medicare system.

For some reason, all the 2020 Democrats are against letting Americans choose between PUBLIC and PRIVATE coverage. It's like they're on a power-trip, and we're all just dumb sheep.

Having a child in a hospital should not cost 10-20k. And for worse outcomes with among the highest mortality rates.
Most of our healthcare is exhorbitantly overpriced in that way. Secondly, as I said, there should always be private options too.

As to the motive for research.... taxpayers fund research now, as they have through much of the past. Universities often develop new treatments and drugs, with no expectation of profit, then those treatments or meds are sold or given to corporations to profit from. And the us is far from the only nation that creates leaps and innovation in medicine. Much research and development comes out of Europe, despite them having less profit motive. Because despite what rand or the republicans or whoever say, profit is not the number one driving motive of human action.

I work in hospitals, have for almost 20 years. I’ve see. The actual cost to provide service, and I’ve seen what we charge. There’s a huge, I mean drastic difference. Simple procedures that cost about $600 materially, we charge upwards of 26k for. Now sure, you can talk hidden costs and all that, but I assure you it’s not close. At the current time we not only pay for everyone’s healthcare, we are also paying for hospital profits, pharma profits (often inflated thousands of times), as well as all the middle men like insurance companies, etc that add nothing to the provided care. And, due to corporate lobbying, profits are maximized to ridiculous amounts which are extracted from us all. If we went single payer, first healthcare would cost 30% less off the bat, as that’s the insurance industries cut. Then you reduce it by the amount of hospital profit and big pharma exploitation and that’s a huge cut right there too. Pharma can still make meds and profit, but they’d have to bargain, and meds that cost 1000’s of times their production cost would be pushed down to reasonable levels. It shouldn’t be a car note to afford insulin, or childbirth. And Americans with hep c shouldn’t have to pay 96000 dollars for a cure that the rest of the world gets for $500.

a reply to: carewemust

As I've said in the past, it wouldn't be hard to convert our current healthcare model to one more similar to the Netherlands' model.

They still have private insurance companies but for the most part they operate as non-profits. The way they make money is by offering certain perks, like guaranteeing you a private room when you go to the hospital.

Just think about it. Who strives to be doctors? Normally, it's some of the most intelligent and skilled people. Getting a medical degree takes, intelligence, skill, dedication and puts a person into some serious financial stress and getting a medical degree is not guaranteed. You still have to prove your capable. Why do they go through all this? Because there is a financial incentive, good doctors make very good money, they are rewarded for their skill and dedication.

But with the advent of proposed liberal "free education", just think of all the millennial's that would now be open to pursue a medical degree, free. Texting while operating, selfies during your open heart, maybe some MJ to "relax" their stress before surgery? I hope my doctor doesn't loose his nose ring in my abdomen.

I can't wait, soon going to the doctor will be like getting service at the DMV.

a reply to: panoz77

Just because education would be "free" doesn't mean that standards for acceptance would drop. If anything it would mean that our doctors would be more skilled since extremely intelligent people that previously couldn't afford medical school would now be able to attend.

a reply to: neutronflux

Seems to work ok in Australia - but then costs of doctors visits are lower, litigation is not as prevalent, I could go on.

That sounds like a monopoly.

They give you a number when you're born

they introduced taxation to pay the interest on war loans

they tax even rainwater now.

Whats new?

Been going on since Central banking was taken over by private non-govt bodies.

a reply to: DBCowboy

So you have no problem paying more for me, a fat smoker who drinks too much.

That chestnut doesnt fly.

Actuaries have data going back hundreds of years.

These latest talking points are to pit person upon person. Meanwhile they're getting away with obscene profits.

They're pushing to get our entire medical histories

Where do you draw the line?

dug88 wrote

becoming ill or hurting myself won't completely and utterly # me financially.

Why should someone be bankrupted by a simple fall off a ladder, or malpractice by a doctor?

Dont you recall how Insurers are trying to get our medical data to further increase their profits?


www.abc.net.au...

Doctors are pushing back against insurance companies asking them to send them their patients' entire health records as they make decisions about life insurance.

"I am very alarmed that there might be tens of thousands of people's entire health record across the country now stored with insurance companies," Labor Senator Deborah O'Neil told Parliament's joint committee on corporations and financial services.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: panoz77

Just because education would be "free" doesn't mean that standards for acceptance would drop. If anything it would mean that our doctors would be more skilled since extremely intelligent people that previously couldn't afford medical school would now be able to attend.

And what will be the incentive for doctors to become doctors? Government mandated pay scales? Would all doctors in the same discipline be paid the same, or would their pay be based on their skill and demand? Would you want the good doctor or below average doctor or just roll the dice in the first come first serve line?

a reply to: pexx421

There is actually many hidden costs as pointed out in this thread. Malpractice insurance and lawsuits. The hospitals charging those that can and will pay to cover those who stiff the system.

a reply to: panoz77

Would you rather go see the doctor that's actually in it because they want to help people or the one that's trying to maximize their profit?

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: panoz77

Would you rather go see the doctor that's actually in it because they want to help people or the one that's trying to maximize their profit?

I don't care about "feels". I want the best and brightest operating on me regardless of their motivation.

a reply to: pexx421

As to the motive for research.... taxpayers fund research now, as they have through much of the past. Universities often develop new treatments and drugs, with no expectation of profit, then those treatments or meds are sold or given to corporations to profit from

Flaws in your line of thought. Corporations pay taxes. Corporations donate big to universities, and pay for joint research. Who pays for the clinical trials to meet FDA approval, and bring the drugs to market. Who is liable for costs from lawsuits. Funny, seems like lawyers are making profit from the system too.

There is my underlying true conspiracy again. The USA is ran by lawyers to make money for lawyers at ever turn.

a reply to: neutronflux

I pointed out there are hidden costs. I also pointed out that those hidden costs are not the bulk of the surplus expense we are charged. The largest chunk of the high cost of our medicine is the profits apportioned out to some group or another. Your argument that “hidden costs exist” don’t change that our healthcare costs twice what it should based upon its statistical results and outcomes. It’s like we are paying twice as much for a ford as Europeans are paying for a bmw.

originally posted by: panoz77

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: panoz77

Would you rather go see the doctor that's actually in it because they want to help people or the one that's trying to maximize their profit?

I don't care about "feels". I want the best and brightest operating on me regardless of their motivation.

Ah. Because doctors in every other western industrialized nation with national healthcare are worse than the doctors we have here in the us. Interesting. Sorry, but our medical education system is not set up to garner the best and brightest. It’s set up to extract as much money as possible from aspiring doctors.

a reply to: Aazadan


You clearly are reading the wrong column!
This is the column the employee pays.
There are some expensive plans, and the premiums for a family can be high, but you can get a plan for around $110 per month,

Empl. Pay

a reply to: TheRedneck

There needs to be a system where an aspirin doesn't cost $7.50, and a visit to an ER for a rash doesn't cost $3700

...or an ER specialist 2 minute consult $750---and that was years ago for that consult.

a reply to: pexx421

You pointed about the cooperate angle. You didn’t point out anything about lawsuits and the costs associated with those stiffing the system. Is that a false statement.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: panoz77

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: panoz77

Would you rather go see the doctor that's actually in it because they want to help people or the one that's trying to maximize their profit?

I don't care about "feels". I want the best and brightest operating on me regardless of their motivation.

Ah. Because doctors in every other western industrialized nation with national healthcare are worse than the doctors we have here in the us. Interesting. Sorry, but our medical education system is not set up to garner the best and brightest. It’s set up to extract as much money as possible from aspiring doctors.

Yes, America is by far the home of MAGA doctors. That is why the rest of the world who want the best lifesaving care come here.

a reply to: neutronflux
That was included when I said “insurance, etc”. See that “etc”? That includes inflated legal costs, inflated education costs, and things like that as well, that detract from our finances while not improving medical care.