Universal healthcare is indentured servitude and a weapon

Government that controls your healthcare has you by the cotton balls.

My premise is one of simplicity. Healthcare is provided by skilled individuals, and access to those individuals is not an universal right. To say healthcare is an universal right is saying society is an indentured servant where individuals have no control how and when their skills are accessed.

Freedom of speech is a universal human right. It is the opposite of healthcare. It takes manpower to oppress freedom of speech.

I am not debating government single payer per se. If society decides through law tax money should be used to supply healthcare to a portion or all at the market rate, that is not universal healthcare.

But that is not the goal of people pushing single payer healthcare. The goal is to force society into a government which ultimately government is the only source of healthcare, and government is the barrier to healthcare. That doesn’t sound like an universal right. That sounds like a monopoly. That sounds like government, who has historically abused power, having the power to pick winners and losers when it comes to people’s health.

Then in the context of China’s social credit program, universal healthcare is an authoritarian government’s dream. To be honest, I could not find any direct listing on how the social credit program will impact China’s healthcare system. However, the policy will create blacklists. If you end up on the blacklist, your access to jobs, education, and travel will be impacted or denied. The blacklist already has a social stigma.

Calling a blacklisted person in certain areas, a message will play warning you interacting with the individual is undesirable before being connected.

How China Is Using “Social Credit Scores” to Reward and Punish Its Citizens

time.com...

In certain areas of China, call a blacklisted person on the phone and you will hear a siren and recorded message saying: “Warning, this person is on the blacklist. Be careful and urge them to repay their debts.” When a blacklisted person crosses certain intersections in Beijing, facial-recognition technology projects their face and ID number on massive electronic billboards.

Anybody with knowledge of history knows how past and current governments have abused power and controlled populations for the sake of political dogma. Government abuse is rampant, and people are sadly and literally handing over their wellbeing to corrupt politicians.

Democrats ignore how Universal Healthcare COST and IMPLEMENTATION would HURT AMERICANS. They only want control and power over the sheep.

What we have now is the capitalist dream. Which is to take all the surplus capital from the workers leaving them with just enough money for bare subsistence. And this is how our medical system works. For the poor, who have no surplus, they decide what healthcare you get and then they bill the taxpayers exhorbitant rates for it. For the working poor, who can’t get benefits and can’t get insurance, they want all your money for the rest of your life, and will take it if you have one serious illness or injury. And for the wealthy, who the system serves, well they get whatever care they want. And this is a pretty correct extrapolation to our whole society as well. Regardless, single payer is a necessity, as we as a society can no longer afford the burden of healthcare and all the hands in the pot, mostly the profit portion as the actual cost of care is pretty low. But we also need to have private insurance options ON TOP of the public option, so people don’t freak out about their rights being taken away.

There goes the tax cuts 😖

originally posted by: carewemust
Democrats ignore how Universal Healthcare COST and IMPLEMENTATION would HURT AMERICANS. They only want control and power over the sheep.

How does the cost and implementation hurt people?

a reply to: neutronflux

We need a good ole 5 year power-down blackout session.
Just turn everything off. No internet, no power.
Clean house.
Start it up all over again?

Sorry guys, but the cost of single payer healthcare, regardless of what you think of the trillions it costs, it’s still less than the current costs of the healthcare, insurance, deductibles, Medicare and Medicaid, and non covered costs all of which we currently cover.

a reply to: neutronflux

In almost all nations with universal healthcare hospitals and specialized clinics are privately owned. And a lot of their funding is from donations.

In Canada it's more to foot the bill for super expensive procedures and screening.

If I spend more than two days in a hospital or want extra testing I need to pay for it. But if I accidentally chop my thumb off or wake up with cancer symptoms one day I'm covered for the higher costs. Only Cuba has 100% healthcare from my knowledge.

a reply to: neutronflux

A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take away everything you have.

a reply to: pexx421

single payer is a necessity

How is it necessity. I would say populations have flourished with basically no healthcare for thousands of years.

Why can’t government provided a healthcare system which exists beside a private system for those who want choice?

If you want to be charitable and help the poor, that is your right. To create a government monopoly on healthcare controlled by corrupt politicians is just asking for abuse.

originally posted by: pexx421
Sorry guys, but the cost of single payer healthcare, regardless of what you think of the trillions it costs, it’s still less than the current costs of the healthcare, insurance, deductibles, Medicare and Medicaid, and non covered costs all of which we currently cover.

Isn’t the government broke? What’s the national debt? When has the government ever kept to projected costs on social programs?

De Blasio and ‘co-mayor’ wife have wasted $1.8B of taxpayer mone

nypost.com...

Fast-forward to Wednesday, when the City Council was startled to discover that McCray and Team Thrive are closing in on having spent an eye-popping $900 million since the program’s inception — and nobody seems to have a clue on what.

That is, nobody appears to have kept receipts; the subways and street corners are still overrun with crazy people, and nobody in charge knows what’s to happen next.

It doesn’t take a genius to see why corrupt politicians want their hands on healthcare.

a reply to: neutronflux

Simple thing really when considering whether a universal healthcare system compared to lets say a health insurance system is this: Would you prefer to get healthcare no matter your standing and the size of your bank account or would you rather people pay extreme costs for small illness?

I've had a family member who lived in the States for ten years after spending her entire life in the UK and she had many nice and good things to say about the American system but she also had some horrible things to say such as almost going broke because her husband injured his back falling from a ladder onto some concrete slabbing and ended up almost losing her business that she built from the ground up and her home that she had just managed to pay off (roughly a year prior to my idiot uncle falling from a ladder). She liked being able to get to see a doctor pretty snappy rather than having to hope to get one or wait a day or two but at the end of the day she came back to the UK because she felt like the American system was a for profit rather than for patient healthcare system.


And I'm someone who has recently become a member of the Tinnitus family thanks to two Doctors screwing up and giving me medication that they shouldn't have (one was an older guy and the other a newbie Doctor) and I would still and will still defend the NHS because it saved my Mothers life when she had a heart attack almost a decade ago and in the States we would've had to sell literally everything we own, move into a cardboard box just to pay the costs. The American healthcare system has a board of men/women who decide what is covered and what isn't, Americans like to mock the NHS system saying we have death panels but then deny they have something more akin to death panels than we do.

Universal Healthcare would give EVERYONE an equal standard of healthcare, instead of having the poor being punished through cost for being sick. I've read enough cases of people having to lose their homes and or going bankrupt to pay for healthcare issues that in almost every other western country would've been covered through taxes and a universal healthcare. So sorry but you're wrong. (With respect of coursE).

I dunno...walking into a hospital or doctor's office and walking out without dropping hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands of dollars feels pretty good. It really gives a nice sense of freedom knowing becoming ill or hurting myself won't completely and utterly # me financially.

originally posted by: dug88
I dunno...walking into a hospital or doctor's office and walking out without dropping hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands of dollars feels pretty good. It really gives a nice sense of freedom knowing becoming ill or hurting myself won't completely and utterly # me financially.

So you have no problem paying more for me, a fat smoker who drinks too much.

You'll just say, "Enjoy! Live your life, I'll take care of you!"

I'll just be able to live as I want, with no responsibility because I'll know that you and everyone else will take care of me.

You won't dictate what I eat, how much I eat, what I drink, how much I drink, or even if I smoke?

I think a system similar to the NHS for basic care is a good way to go. If people want extra coverage, then they can buy a policy. The government has to step in and stop all the unnecessary tests though, many doctors are trying to keep money flowing into their hospital network by writing prescriptions for tests and procedures that are not necessary. It keeps the hospitals in business, but has raised the cost of healthcare nationwide to levels out of the reach of people and caused high deductibles. Doctors are also prescribing expensive new meds instead of older cheaper ones because of BS being spread by the pharmaceutical company salesmen. They do get some free meds to give out for some clients in the tradeoff, but the cost is then passed on to the insured and the deductibles are going up with the rates that are unaffordible these days for most people.

I can see what is happening, but cannot figure how to fix the problem, lots of people work at the hospitals, they need jobs too. But a real lot of money is spent on new technology, much that does not preform as well as it should. The new automatic blood pressure testers are very inaccurate, the good old time stethescope with the cuff and hand pump works best as long as the nurse knows how to properly use it and chooses the right cuff size. If you pump the cuff up too high the heart jumps into overdrive and raises pressure making it appear you have high blood pressure. The proper way to take blood pressure is in the instructions found on the site of the manufacturer, the whole story is on the site but not in the manual you get usually. Nurses are supposed to be trained to do this, a third of people with high blood pressure do not actually have high blood pressure because it was not taken properly. When you bend your legs in to under the chair when taking blood pressure, it automatically triggers the heart to beat harder. It is supposed to work that way. When you sit, sometimes the pressure can cause the arteries to compress in your thigh/leg area and cause second gear of the heart to rise. There is a lot of information on this at the manufacturers sites and some of the professional medical sites. Since I have learned this I have observed the nurses many times, most do not even pay attention to a person's position or the size of their arm. Most overpump it if they see the person is big, kicking in the second stage of the heart. Some people have a gradual jump up, some seem to have a gear shift like effect with a raise on the gas peddle. I relate things to cars, I am a guy.

a reply to: Dwoodward85

One. Since being out of the military, I have worked hard to have good jobs with good insurance. Obamacare was no friend of mine.

Two. I was in the military. Free healthcare doesn’t equal quality healthcare.

Universal Healthcare would give EVERYONE an equal standard of healthcare,

Why is that not true for public schools and the VA?

If you could afford private schools over Chicago inner city schools, which would you send your kids too?

Why does privatizing public transit increase efficiency and reduce costs.

A few articles for you.

www.illinoispolicy.org...

A majority of students attending the lowest 10 percent of elementary schools and high schools in Chicago don’t have basic competence in reading, science and math. They’re significantly behind their peers in almost every respect. And success in school is a direct link to success later in life with more steady employment, greater wages and higher self-confidence.

Seventy-five percent of students at the lowest-performing elementary schools failed to meet standards on state exams. More than 20 percent of these students scored in the lowest category in reading, meaning they have a difficult time determining the main idea of a persuasive essay or the plot of a short story.

VA Nursing Home Scandal Exposes Substandard Government Health Care
blog.independent.org...

VA Health Leaders Failed to Protect Patients from Inept Doctors
www.military.com...

Against a muted response to the year’s test scores, New York’s charter sector stands out

chalkbeat.org...

One notable exception: The city’s charter sector, which far outscored the rest of the city on both reading and math at a moment when lawmakers’ support is far from assured, quickly touted its performance.

Government cannot even ensure an uniform standard of elementary and high school education, you are going to trust your healthcare to corrupt politicians?


If you missed it once.....

Once-Thriving City Nonprofit Sputters Under Mayor’s Wife, Chirlane McCray

www.nytimes.com...

Where has $850m gone? Bill de Blasio's wife can't account for staggering amount of taxpayer money that the NY Mayor gave her for mental health project

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Again, why do you think corrupt politicians want to get their hands on healthcare. Again, it doesn’t take a genius.

originally posted by: xuenchen
There goes the tax cuts 😖

Liberal azzholes who run Illinois now, just blocked the Trump Administration's new "Association Group Health Plans" rule.

It's ObamaCare, or Insurance @ work in Illinois. I hope Americans are smart again in 2020, and keep liberals out of high federal office.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: dug88
I dunno...walking into a hospital or doctor's office and walking out without dropping hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands of dollars feels pretty good. It really gives a nice sense of freedom knowing becoming ill or hurting myself won't completely and utterly # me financially.

So you have no problem paying more for me, a fat smoker who drinks too much.

You'll just say, "Enjoy! Live your life, I'll take care of you!"

I'll just be able to live as I want, with no responsibility because I'll know that you and everyone else will take care of me.

You won't dictate what I eat, how much I eat, what I drink, how much I drink, or even if I smoke?

Not really no. The $150 i have to pay every month that helps ensure me and fat smokers like yourself can get the healthcare they need is fine. I have no idea why America can't seem to figure this # out. I pay a set amount every month based on my wage i can go get pretty much anything done anywhere. Except the dentist. Gotta pay for that. It kinda sucks. I haven't been for a while. Though i distrust dentists. They have this problem where they recommend procedures you don't need so they can make more money from you. I have a hole my tooth because a dentist decided when i was a teenager he needed to drill for a cavity i didn't have. My sister also ended up with retainers she didn't need. From the one private for profit part of the healthcare system here.

a reply to: Dwoodward85

More on USA “cost effective public schools”.

The US spends more on education than other countries. Why is it falling behind?

www.theguardian.com...

You want the same politicians controlling your healthcare?

a reply to: dug88

Obamacare penalties for smokers

www.bing.com... 39fa49&PC=HCTS&sp=-1&pq=universal+healthcare+has+penalties+for+smokers&sc=0-46&qs=n&sk=&cvid=051362097f404fb3f0b4c454f739fa49

Personally if we go to a nationalized health sytem, I think people who smoke, are overweight and are non compliant with their meds should have to pay higher co-pays.

The additional costs associated with obesity will come to between $850-950 billion PER YEAR.

Considering that the annual costs of the proposed healthcare reform bills are $60 billion-$160 billion/year, it seems that the US must somehow deal with obesity or it will end up bankrupting our country.

I think that we need to get very serious about this problem and it would require a carrot and stick approach. Something like, obese people pay slightly higher taxes while those who are at weight get a rebate. Or instead of useing BMI we could use % body fat, so that fit people who are technically overweight but are very healthy wouldn't be penalized.

forums.studentdoctor.net...


Easy to say that you don't mind paying extra for me, the proof in the penalties of those who live with socialized medicine say otherwise.