Texas Medical School will not use Race in Admissions

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: JAGStorm

So let me ask you a question.

Let's say that this happens and they only accept students based on merit. And it just so happens that the only people that get in are chinese.

Would you be ok with that?

100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% YES

a reply to: Mach2

Affirmative Action is American policy. Colleges give points to black people for being black, which must mean they think black people are incapable of getting better scores unless they are given. So while not every American believes it, it is actual policy, so I have no problem with my claim the whole of America.

This is very welcome news - both as a parent and as a former medical school employee. While the work I did at the med school was in stats and research, I was -at times - involved with admissions. (Sorry in advance for typos - on my phone and it’s not cooperating)

The truth is, any kid that got in to the med school was smart and capable. But if there was a black student and an Asian or white student with equal numbers - the black kid would get in every time. No question. And actually the black applicant would be chosen even if his scores were quite a bit lower.

The reasoning (and keep in mind this was 10 years ago) was that we desperately needed black students! Native Americans or Latino would be great too, but everyone was more concerned with getting black students. This was to ensure black doctors existed - because, the reasoning went, underserved areas needed doctors and many folks living in those areas wanted to be able to see a black doctor.

The other reason was for accreditation purposes. There was no quota, as far as I was aware, but the LMC and AAMC would require us to report our enrollment stats. If we didn’t have enough black students, that could potentially raise some flags.

Our school - and others too - actually developed programs specifically geared towards recruiting black students. Partnerships with predominately black colleges and high schools. A year-long masters degree program that was post-BS but pre-med that allowed kids with either poor grades or low science backgrounds to make up deficiencies and prove themselves ready for med school. These programs could technically be utilized by students of any race, but they were definitely created to recruit future black doctors. And, of course, there were the scholarships ... those actually were explicitly for African American students.

Again, any kid that got into the school - no matter their race - was bright and capable. They were all intellectually able to meet the demands of medical school. But black students were definitely sought out and drooled over. Schools would fight over getting bright black med students (even just the slightly above average ones) - so many of those kids ended up with full rides.

Now if race were not reported in application or MCATs, obviously you are still going to find out their race when they come to interview. There still might be favoritism given to non-Asian students due to their “over-representation.” Who knows... just because points cannot officially be assigned doesn’t mean favoritism can’t happen.

Anyway, that is my take on this. I’m not much of an insider at all, but I did help with some data and sat in on some meetings that were pretty interesting.

But you know what? Forget race .... don’t get me started on “legacy” admissions ... that was much scarier to me.

Anyway .... I feel this is good news and I’m hopeful that by the time my kids go off to college there is a possibility that their race won’t be taken into consideration.

So when NO balacks are admitted, they will cry & scream "dat ray cipps".

a reply to: VegHead

Anyway .... I feel this is good news and I’m hopeful that by the time my kids go off to college there is a possibility that their race won’t be taken into consideration.

To me this is great news, it says skin color doesn't matter. I think it is a huge step forward.

Not to make this political, but President Trump is really the first one that helped this. He helped to
open Harvard's admission files.

This topic is one that is very personal to my family. We are Americans with Asian ancestry. We were all top students.
It totally sucked to have to reach a higher bar for everything. It's not just in college, it starts in middle school. The pain of this kind of discrimination has been going on too long. Let's just be Americans, let's get the best and brightest kids in there.
If others want to join, they will rise up to whatever that bar is, regardless of color.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: JAGStorm

So let me ask you a question.

Let's say that this happens and they only accept students based on merit. And it just so happens that the only people that get in are chinese.

Would you be ok with that?

You know, there would be no problem having ANYONE who qualified academically attend med school if there were not artificial limits placed on the number of positions by the lobbyist group called the AMA.


Who or what controls the number of medical doctors in the U.S.?
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Trade unions like the AMA and the AAMC (Association of American Medical Colleges) are not only powerful lobbyists and influence their members to conform, but they also appoint the members of accrediting agencies (e.g. LCME, ACGME), as well as members of task forces and advisory councils (e.g. RUC which sets prices).

While they have not set an explicit quota for the number of doctors (wink wink), their policies create shortages.

originally posted by: CADpro
So when NO balacks are admitted, they will cry & scream "dat ray cipps".

You know, there are a lot of people on ATS that have different opinions than me, and that is ok.
I enjoy the intelligent conversation, and sometimes silly banter.

I'll say this, you annoy me.
I think there might be other venues that would be better suited to your racist diatribe.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Mach2

Affirmative Action is American policy. Colleges give points to black people for being black, which must mean they think black people are incapable of getting better scores unless they are given. So while not every American believes it, it is actual policy, so I have no problem with my claim the whole of America.

I'm sure some proponents of affirmative action have that reasoning, but some may just think it's evening out an unfair situation.

Either way, is has been a failed policy.

Is it racist that I always hire Jewish attorneys and accountants?

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Mach2

Affirmative Action is American policy. Colleges give points to black people for being black, which must mean they think black people are incapable of getting better scores unless they are given. So while not every American believes it, it is actual policy, so I have no problem with my claim the whole of America.

I'm sure some proponents of affirmative action have that reasoning, but some may just think it's evening out an unfair situation.

Either way, is has been a failed policy.

Affirmative action is racism in the most pure form. Allowing or preventing opportunity based simply on skin color.

I'll give perfect example. We are Asian, but not the right kind of Asian apparently. On my daughters college admission they only consider her a minority if she was SOUTHEAST Asian (ie dark skinned) So if you are Chinese/Japanese/Korean, you aren't considered a minority. Talk about splitting hairs.

a reply to: JAGStorm

The thread is about racists and then you call me racist for stating it is racist....great logic!

a reply to: olaru12

Jewish is a religion.

Not a race.

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Mach2

Affirmative Action is American policy. Colleges give points to black people for being black, which must mean they think black people are incapable of getting better scores unless they are given. So while not every American believes it, it is actual policy, so I have no problem with my claim the whole of America.

I'm sure some proponents of affirmative action have that reasoning, but some may just think it's evening out an unfair situation.

Either way, is has been a failed policy.

What you claim is your reason is irrelevant. Are black people capable of getting good grades? If yes, then why do we accept mediocrity from them, we shouldn't. The only real answer is no, they can't.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Actually Asians are penalized. They take 50 points off your SAT score.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: olaru12

Jewish is a religion.

Not a race.

I think the KKK and skinhead nationalist would disagree...

a reply to: olaru12

Liberals disagree too .. depending. They use the definition of race as being anyone of a certain group when it benefits them. Under that definition Jews would be a race.

I’m a university professor. We have a huge ME and Asian student population, not because of Affirmative Action, but because they’re international students who pay cash. International students are not eligible for federal financial aid. This makes them very attractive to institutions because there’s no delay in getting funds and they generally perform better academically (otherwise they get sent back home). So, next time you wonder why all your doctors are foreigners, you’ll know.

Too many people are over simplifying how admissions to colleges, grad schools, etc works. It is really frustrating because it makes having a rational discussion on this topic next to impossible. Almost as bad as trying to reason with leftist...

First, any elite / selective school whether it be the Ivy League universities, law schools, business, or medical schools all have far more applicants than they do admission spots. At most of these schools the acceptance rate is less than 10%. So 1 out of 10 applicants gains admission. They are literally receiving thousands if not tens of thousands of applicants every year.

Second, admissions have never been just solely based test scores and GPA. While these criteria are important, they are hardly the be all end all when it comes to evaluating an applicant. The reality is that after a certain point academically, most people can do the work. So having marginally better test scores does not necessarily make a better applicant.

The schools are often trying to create a complete academic environment that is diverse and optimal for learning. So in a way, they are literally hand picking the students to craft a class for the benefit of everyone.

I graduated from an elite graduate business school. My classmates literally did everything from working at Goldman Sachs to being professional race car drivers to elementary school teachers to engineers to Navy Seals. The school's admissions committee openly pointed out that like 80% of the people with perfect GMAT scores got rejected because perfect test scores say nothing about leadership, creativity, or likelihood of professional success.

Everyone one of my classmates were extremely intelligent and capable. Schools often lower requirement slightly for harder to find applicants. A WHITE MALE co-worker of mine went to Harvard Business School. He jokes that he only got accepted because he was from Bumblestank, Iowa... The school was desperate for people from middle America.

Finally, even with Affirmative Action, minorities still make up a very small percentage of the student bodies at these schools. The way some of you complain, you'd think 50% of the student body was black. At my school, in a class of 600 people, there were literally maybe 15 black students... this is fairly consistent across elite schools.

a reply to: Edumakated

Actually we just think the idea someone should be picked based on skin color is wrong. The group that will be most helped will be Asians. If two people grow up next door to each other, go to the same school, engage in the same activities, work just as hard as each other, the one that is Black will get picked over the one who is White or Asian simply because of skin color. So the fact there are other considerations than test scores is not relevant to whether that is wrong.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Edumakated

Actually we just think the idea someone should be picked based on skin color is wrong. The group that will be most helped will be Asians. If two people grow up next door to each other, go to the same school, engage in the same activities, work just as hard as each other, the one that is Black will get picked over the one who is White or Asian simply because of skin color. So the fact there are other considerations than test scores is not relevant to whether that is wrong.

People aren't picked just based on skin color. It can be a factor, but hardly is what drives admission alone.

What annoys me is the self-righteous talk about merit while ignoring that the process has never been solely merit. Come with the same outrage against legacy admissions. geographic preference. gender preference. preference for employee's kids.

When I see the same people bitching raise up and dismantle the NCAA Div 1 football and basketball teams so that none of the borderline retarded star players gain admission, then we can talk about getting rid of affirmative action imho.

So an obviously smart by any measure black kid gets second guessed because he actually wants to go to a top university for a real education, but yet no one complains about black kids who can barely spell their name going to the same universities because they dunk a ball.