Trump tells Russia to leave Venezuela-All options open

So... we meddle in Venezuela's oil industry, cut off their refining, then sanction them to the point that we ruin their country and now we're the best people to also save them? Oh jesus. In theory we do have some responsibility seeing as we drove them into the ground. But in practice, the USA sucks at helping, almost universally. And considering Trump's chest puffing with NK, his false bravado doesn't help anything in that regard either (big surprise).

Now you're spouting Chavanista conspiracy theories.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: EchoesInTime

Trump should just walk away from Venezuela.

If the people want socialism, then let them suffer.

If the people there want something different?

Then they should fight for it.

You are right DBC, it is unfortunate but the folks fleeing that country keep turning up on our doorstep

I do agree it is not our problem, but I would support limited action (drone strikes, assassination or fomenting regime change) but not US boots on the ground

originally posted by: ressiv
you forgott to mention that the crisis was coused by US sanctions (the normal way to clear the path of taking over an oil producing country …
so wats the issue ??????


a reply to: conspiracy nut

Which sanctions? The US sanctions on the Venezuelan oil industry just started late Jan early Feb of this year, long after the crisis began.

a reply to: ressiv

No.... it happened because of the illegitimate ideology known as socialism that is infesting the once-prosperous oil rich nation. "Sanctions" mean nothing when you have unscrupulous allies like Russia (and the rest of BRICS) who will gladly subvert said sanctions. They have enough oil alone in that country to sustain a prosperous economy... the problem is SOCIALISM and nothing else

Eliminate Maduro -> Eliminate socialism -> solve the problem

VZ is fixed by installing a real and legitimate government.

The only question is: "Is this our problem to solve?" If so, we could solve it quite easily and nothing Maduro or his commie-humping Chavismo 'collectivo' gangs of thugs could do about it. The order of the world is this: we identity a problem, decide whether to act, and then carry out our decision. If our Commander In Chief or Congress makes that call, make no mistake he will be eliminated. And there isn't a place on this green Earth or in space he would be safe from our very long reach.

originally posted by: JBurns

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: EchoesInTime

Trump should just walk away from Venezuela.

If the people want socialism, then let them suffer.

If the people there want something different?

Then they should fight for it.

You are right DBC, it is unfortunate but the folks fleeing that country keep turning up on our doorstep

I do agree it is not our problem, but I would support limited action (drone strikes, assassination or fomenting regime change) but not US boots on the ground

Give the folks fleeing the guns and boom-sticks to liberate their own god-damned country!

Americans are not cannon fodder. Soldiers have been used and abused enough!

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: JBurns

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: EchoesInTime

Trump should just walk away from Venezuela.

If the people want socialism, then let them suffer.

If the people there want something different?

Then they should fight for it.

You are right DBC, it is unfortunate but the folks fleeing that country keep turning up on our doorstep

I do agree it is not our problem, but I would support limited action (drone strikes, assassination or fomenting regime change) but not US boots on the ground

Give the folks fleeing the guns and boom-sticks to liberate their own god-damned country!

Americans are not cannon fodder. Soldiers have been used and abused enough!

Anyone who steps in to defend innocent victims from a repressive regime is a hero, not cannon fodder.

The US is in the business of exporting war and with Abrams and Bolton in trumps neocon cabal; business should improve. Time to buy a few extra stocks in UNX and Halliburton. Capitalism rocks!!

MAGA!!

originally posted by: Tartuffe
Trump is right. Nothing, including intervention, should be off the table. If Venezuelans cannot help themselves, the only ones that can help Venezuelans now is the United States and a coalition of allies.

If the situation in Venezuela is as described, it's the job of the United Nations to help out, not the United States. The US can be a part of the UN relief efforts.

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: JBurns

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: EchoesInTime

Trump should just walk away from Venezuela.

If the people want socialism, then let them suffer.

If the people there want something different?

Then they should fight for it.

You are right DBC, it is unfortunate but the folks fleeing that country keep turning up on our doorstep

I do agree it is not our problem, but I would support limited action (drone strikes, assassination or fomenting regime change) but not US boots on the ground

Give the folks fleeing the guns and boom-sticks to liberate their own god-damned country!

Americans are not cannon fodder. Soldiers have been used and abused enough!

Anyone who steps in to defend innocent victims from a repressive regime is a hero, not cannon fodder.

I hear you and I get that. Really. But the people getting oppressed usually end up in the bleachers, eating their pop corn and watching the damned show.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Agree

Agree with this wholeheartedly

I can't help myself but take a jab at socialism and this tin-pot dictator, though. But I do agree, putting US troops in harms way should be out of the question

If by some miracle we could accomplish those goals with drone strikes or a cruise missile attack however....

Ah, it makes sense to arm the rebels. Hell, send them some light assault vehicles, plenty of weapons/food/ammo/supplies, provide remote logistics coordination, remote advisory, intelligence support, media/narrative cover and remote air strikes via drones or even cruise missiles and we might just have a winner

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

originally posted by: Tartuffe
Trump is right. Nothing, including intervention, should be off the table. If Venezuelans cannot help themselves, the only ones that can help Venezuelans now is the United States and a coalition of allies.

If the situation in Venezuela is as described, it's the job of the United Nations to help out, not the United States. The US can be a part of the UN relief efforts.

Like Rwanda?

a reply to: Tartuffe

No that is true... but DBCowboy's point is well made and taken

I believe there are ways we can help those innocent people free themselves, owing their hard-won liberty to no nation other than their own (much like the US in 1776). Nothing makes you appreciate freedom and liberty like shedding blood to obtain it. Perhaps that will serve as a good reminder of what happens when you let sliver-tongue socialists come to power for any reason

These folks need to take up arms for their own cause, backed by plenty of US support/logistics/intelligence/drone strikes/etc at least in my humble opinion

I agree wholeheartedly however that Maduro's future involves hanging by the neck at the end of a rope or being taken out by a missile "Made in America" - But for propaganda's sake, him being ousted/executed or imprisoned by his own people of their own revolution would make better headlines than yet another assured US victory over some # stain

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: JBurns

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: EchoesInTime

Trump should just walk away from Venezuela.

If the people want socialism, then let them suffer.

If the people there want something different?

Then they should fight for it.

You are right DBC, it is unfortunate but the folks fleeing that country keep turning up on our doorstep

I do agree it is not our problem, but I would support limited action (drone strikes, assassination or fomenting regime change) but not US boots on the ground

Give the folks fleeing the guns and boom-sticks to liberate their own god-damned country!

Americans are not cannon fodder. Soldiers have been used and abused enough!

Anyone who steps in to defend innocent victims from a repressive regime is a hero, not cannon fodder.

I hear you and I get that. Really. But the people getting oppressed usually end up in the bleachers, eating their pop corn and watching the damned show.

But right now they are literally eating garbage.

yep fully agree :-)
its all an matter of OIL !
US will not stop interfering other nations until they have full control over all the world reserves
its an impressiv list so far of countrys taken over
look at the wars they started most of them all oil related !
once control over all the oil in the world …. they have all the power
a reply to: okrian

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Tartuffe

No that is true... but DBCowboy's point is well made and taken

I believe there are ways we can help those innocent people free themselves, owing their hard-won liberty to no nation other than their own (much like the US in 1776). Nothing makes you appreciate freedom and liberty like shedding blood to obtain it. Perhaps that will serve as a good reminder of what happens when you let sliver-tongue socialists come to power for any reason

These folks need to take up arms for their own cause, backed by plenty of US support/logistics/intelligence/drone strikes/etc at least in my humble opinion

I agree wholeheartedly however that Maduro's future involves hanging by the neck at the end of a rope or being taken out by a missile "Made in America" - But for propaganda's sake, him being ousted/executed or imprisoned by his own people of their own revolution would make better headlines than yet another assured US victory over some # stain

But they have no weapons, are emaciated, starving and sick. They are already fighting in the best way they can and are suffering because of it.

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: JBurns

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: EchoesInTime

Trump should just walk away from Venezuela.

If the people want socialism, then let them suffer.

If the people there want something different?

Then they should fight for it.

You are right DBC, it is unfortunate but the folks fleeing that country keep turning up on our doorstep

I do agree it is not our problem, but I would support limited action (drone strikes, assassination or fomenting regime change) but not US boots on the ground

Give the folks fleeing the guns and boom-sticks to liberate their own god-damned country!

Americans are not cannon fodder. Soldiers have been used and abused enough!

Anyone who steps in to defend innocent victims from a repressive regime is a hero, not cannon fodder.

I hear you and I get that. Really. But the people getting oppressed usually end up in the bleachers, eating their pop corn and watching the damned show.

But right now they are literally eating garbage.

What are "they" doing to solve the problem themselves?

What can we do to assist them?

That's how we should work this.

We don't lead the fight, we arm those who want to fight.

What's the use of freeing people that don't want to be free?

lolll UN =fully controlled by the US ...a reply to: Tartuffe

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Tartuffe

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: JBurns

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: EchoesInTime

Trump should just walk away from Venezuela.

If the people want socialism, then let them suffer.

If the people there want something different?

Then they should fight for it.

You are right DBC, it is unfortunate but the folks fleeing that country keep turning up on our doorstep

I do agree it is not our problem, but I would support limited action (drone strikes, assassination or fomenting regime change) but not US boots on the ground

Give the folks fleeing the guns and boom-sticks to liberate their own god-damned country!

Americans are not cannon fodder. Soldiers have been used and abused enough!

Anyone who steps in to defend innocent victims from a repressive regime is a hero, not cannon fodder.

I hear you and I get that. Really. But the people getting oppressed usually end up in the bleachers, eating their pop corn and watching the damned show.

But right now they are literally eating garbage.

What are "they" doing to solve the problem themselves?

What can we do to assist them?

That's how we should work this.

We don't lead the fight, we arm those who want to fight.

What's the use of freeing people that don't want to be free?

At this point they are mostly trying to survive and protesting where they can.

Any other suggestions?

a reply to: Tartuffe

For all the good that it's doing them, they might as well go on a hunger strike to protest!

If history is any indicator, the end result of revolution is not always better.

Russia, for all their talk has a crap economy and can't afford to prop up any regime outside of Europe.

So I wouldn't worry about Russia making them a puppet state.

a reply to: Tartuffe

That is true and the situation is untenable and wholly unacceptable

Especially for Venezuela, who's Citizens-turned-subjects absolutely remember what life in a free country was like. That makes it even more difficult

What I am saying is that the people of Venezuela are worth saving. And there is no greater honor or act deserving of absolute unwavering admiration and appreciation than laying your own life down for your country. Now this is certainly a just cause, but can we really ask our brave men and women of the US armed forces to put their lives on the line for another country?

We both seem to agree that something should be done, but disagree perhaps in the implementation. I believe we can accomplish this objective by arming the resistance groups (heavily arming), providing close air support via UAS and strategic cruise missile strikes against loyalist factions, providing in-depth logistical support (including food, medical supplies, ammo, etc), and providing the opposition with crucial intelligence support