NEWS: Ernst Zundel deported from Canada

Ernst Zundel was deported today from Canada. It is expected that he will be arrested upon landing in Germany. Ernst was kept in prison for the last two years on a national security certificate, used in order to hold indefinetely anyone suspected of being a threat to Canadian Security.



In my opinion this is the best news I've heard coming out of Canada in a long time. It has given me "a little" more confidence in our courts. That is to say, that in these past few years, our courts have been increasingly on the side of the poor little guy who needs compasion not judgement so that he might be rehabilitated. (did you note the sarcasm?)

I digress, Ernst Zundel was a threat to our national security and a burden on our courts. I am happy that we have finally gotten rid of him.

Yup glad he's gone for good! We don't need his type in Canada, allthough there will always be more. I do not like the fact he was held with a "Security Certificate" without charges laid for over 2 years. That leaves a sour aftertaste for sure...

As to your comment on Rehab vs. Punishment I hope you don't feel that way about the entire system. One of the great things about this Country is that we generally try to treat mostly everyone like a Human being, and it has so far translated into a Much lower murder rate then in the USA, it's about 5 times lower if memory serves me correctly. Sure the system fails like in the case of Carla Holmoka, but looking at the cold hard stats its easy to see which system is superior.(Not trying to get into a pissing match with any of you yanks, I'm just stating facts)

Yes I agree. In most cases I prefer reformation to extended incarceration. To many times though, the repeat sexual/dangerous offenders are let loose by a system designed to coddle. We as a society should remember that prisons are also there to protect us from these types of criminals. I am tired of hearing about poor miss. Jane Doe who was raped or killed by someone who should never have been released, but who was now living in a halfway-house down the street. Jeees.... When will we learn?

poor ernst.
he only pursued what he saw as truth.
that the holocaust had been EXAGERATED. he didn't 'deny' it happened.
he was tried in a kangaroo court. maybe i'll dig up the transcript of the court proceedings. busy, now, though. it was ridiculous. every time the court asked the police(CSIS) for evidence or testimony, they refused on the basis of 'national security'. he was incarcerated on hearsay. pure hearsay.
i feel his treament was outside of the law. but, who will champion such a heavily demonised 'nazi hate monger'? that's right. noone, because hating jews is the biggest taboo on the planet. even if he didn't hate jews(which i don't know either way), he was painted as a hardcore hitleresque nazi by the media, and the actual truth of the matter remains elusive and irrelevent.

does anybody here have evidence of his 'hatred'? i have never seen any. i think he is being silenced for trying to rewrite history, and not for spreading hate.

Ernst was a typical FUD spreader,

We know how FUD works, you spread doubts, some halve facts and leave it to the imagination of the audience to fill in the blanks and grow make that seed of hate blossom. Derfor on one hand I think it's good that Ernst now has the change to paint his holocaust picture in an official German court....

However their is some sore aftertast on how his expulsion came about, today llocking up questionable revisionists, tomorrow journalists digging up information in the wrong places ? Better prevent new holocausts from happening by keeping close guard to civilian rights....


[edit on 1-3-2005 by Countermeasures]

Far be it from me to try to tell my neighbors how to run their affairs. I am an American, not a Canadian; and we do things differently here.

I am not all that familiar with Zundel, although I've heard about him for the past three or four years. It seems like he's one of these people who, for whatever reasons, prefers to deny the existance of the Shoah (or Holocaust) carried out by the Nazis in the late 1930'sand early 1940's.

I think he's completely wrong; there's simply too much evidence to the contrary. What happened to the Jews (and Gypsies, and Slavs, and retarded people) is one of the most horrid things of the 20th century, and we should never forget it, any more than we should forget all the other mass murders in places like the Ukraine, Cambodia, China, Rwanda, and Sudan.

I don't see any real difference between the Holocaust deniers and the "moon landing was a hoax" people. Both are arguing from a complete lack of evidence; neither understand basic history.

But my "national security" is not impacted by some bozo saying we never landed on the Moon or some other bozo saying the Nazis never murdered six million people. One of those losers insults the memory of all the innocent people who were murdered, another insults and denigrates the work done by hundrds of thousands of brilliant, committed, and hard-working scientists, engineers, and technicians.

But why would you want to deport them?

Thank goodness that here in America we still have our freedom to speak our piece, no matter how objectionable the politically-correct crowd finds it!

It seems that, with Zundel and his two-year "national security certificate", our brothers and sisters in Canada have their own one-man Guantanamo Bay.

Guys, correct me if I am wrong but was this guy deported and going to be imprisoned for speaking his opinion? No matter how twisted whom did he wrong? Whom did he kill? Harm? Offending senses is not a crime unless you are Canadian I guess.

I know at least 2 people on thise board who would like to have moon-hoaxers locked up in Gitmo Bay or at the funny farm for being illigal debaters...

I remember the story about an emotional astronaut John Glenn punching one of those moon-hoaxers in the face for stalking him and annoying him and questioning his most magical moment in life, but clearly John cannot pull the same legal strings that Aipac can on Ernst zund stepping onr sensitive toes...


[edit on 1-3-2005 by Countermeasures]

That putz in Colorado, Ward Churchill, deserves to be locked in a room with the 9/11 survivors families. But not fired or imprisoned.

Countermeasures, if the moon-hoaxers and the chem-trailers were locked up, whom would we have to laugh at? LOL!

And about John Glenn -- actually, it was Buzz Aldrin.

"It was one small punch for a man, but it made the news.

On Sept. 9, former astronaut Buzz Aldrin, 72, one of the two men who made the first landing on the moon in 1969, landed a fist on the jaw of filmmaker Bart Sibrel, 37.

Aldrin had gone to a hotel in Beverly Hills, Calif., for what he had thought was an interview with a Japanese TV show. Instead, he was confronted by Sibrel, who operates a video production company in Nashville and has made a career out of perpetuating the notion that NASA's Apollo moon missions were hoaxes.

As he's done before to several Apollo astronauts, Sibrel tried to get Aldrin to swear on a Bible that he had really been on the moon.

Aldrin's lawyer, Robert O'Brien, said the next day that the 6-foot-2, 250-pound Sibrel forced Aldrin up against a wall and refused to let him leave, so Aldrin launched the punch in self-defense. (On Sept. 21, the Los Angeles County district attorney's office announced it would not file charges against Aldrin, saying that he had been provoked into hitting Sibrel.)"

No one cares whether he has hatred.

The point isn't that he's a new nazi - that he's the next big evil.

He's just going into places that no one needs to go.

Why would you need to do it? Why would you need to go 'check out the numbers' to see if exactly 6 million people died?

Is it really a 'better' crime if it's 4 million? 1 million?

I say it isn't. There's no need to apologise to Hitler, or any of the nazis. There is no one on earth being hurt by the possibility that the number of jews who died in the holocaust is exaggerated. I don't believe it is, and I think that you'd have to be filled with anti-semitism just to look into it.

Regardless - he's opening a can of worms with the intent of getting people dirty, because the truth doesn't even matter at this point. It just doesn't.

and canada/europe say we arent free yet they imprison people for an opinion and dont even see the hypocracy here, you see nazis coming back all over europe but here you see it far less yet we let them speak, you know how people resist harder and become beliggerant when forced underground.

Looks like the High and Mighty self righteous residents of Al Canadah do not stand by freedom of speech. Shocking!

This is amazing! He's being deported and then charged abroad for free speech alone? And Canadians support this yet get outraged about deportation of terrorists? Shocking indeed!

And you people howl about us imprisoning al-Qaeda, eh.

Most of the evidence was lost in the allied bombings so I doubt there was any real proof to put zundel away other than the mindless bull# that he authored.

I can't see how Zundel could deny the holocaust when Mein Kempf was a best seller at the time. He was both a freak for believing such things and idiotic for spreading the word like the bible bums on the street corner reading passages out loud.

[edit on 3-1-2005 by websurfer]

websurfer, you're missing the point.

No one's saying that Zundel was right.

I think most people here believe he was a nut.

What upsets me is that the sama Canadians with their "holier-than-thou" attitudes about our war don't see anything wrong with locking up a guy without even charging him becasue of what he says.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
And you people howl about us imprisoning al-Qaeda, eh?

I was thinking the very same thing. I guess it is OK when they do it, but not when we do. In addtion it would appear that Candain officials are using their new laws the same as the US is when it comes to arresting people.

While I agree that if evidence supports their claim, he should have been deported, but wonder just what kind of threat to national security he posed?

Billybob,
There is a distinct difference between supporting Mr. Zundel's, or any other person's, right to freedom of speech, and supporting the content of his, or another person's, speech.
Question: Do you support his right to free speech or do you support his right to free speech and the contents of his speech?

Originally posted by billybob
poor ernst.
he only pursued what he saw as truth.
that the holocaust had been EXAGERATED. he didn't 'deny' it happened.

He is a Holocaust-denier.
The man is a full-fledged neo-nazi.
He claimed that the Holocaust was a hoax, period. Yeah, I guess that would be were the "exaggeration" part would come into play, huh, billybob? He did "deny." Thats a factoid.

he was tried in a kangaroo court. maybe i'll dig up the transcript of the court proceedings. busy, now, though.

You do that when you get the time.
He was charged under Section 177 in 1985 and reads:

...a crime to disseminate false information...

Holocaust Denial

The goal of these deniers is/are:

Holocaust denial is above all an assault on modern Jewish history. "The central assertion for the deniers," Lipstadt writes, "is that Jews are not victims but victimizers. They 'stole' billions in reparations, destroyed Germany's good name by spreading the 'myth' of the Holocaust, and won international sympathy because of what they claimed had been done to them." The deniers' objective is to strip the survivors of the Holocaust—not only the emaciated skeletons still alive in the death camps in the spring of 1945, but the surviving remnant of the Jewish people—of their moral authority. If the Holocaust was nothing but Allied propaganda—or, as some deniers have it, a Zionist confection—then far from deserving sympathy or the safety of their own homeland, the Jews deserve only resentment and scorn.

--snip--

What makes Holocaust-denial truly insidious, though, is not its popularity with bigots and haters, but the effect it can produce on people who are simply uninformed.

--snip--

That is what the deniers are aiming at: Acceptance of the idea that their hateful falsehoods are a legitimate "other side" of Holocaust history. The more they repeat that the Final Solution never happened, the more some people wonder: Well, did it? Each new seed of doubt grants Adolf Hitler a posthumous victory, and makes the destruction of the Six Million a little more complete.

The Deniers' Real Goal

Remember, billybob, we are talking Canada here (no offense to Canadians or Canadian members), not the U.S. I'm almost positive that if Mr. Ward Churchill was given a 'scratch-n-sniff' test, he would be borderline "denier," too.

I agree with the rights of freedom of speech, but even with those rights, comes responsibility and restrictions. As such, Mr. Zundel is entitled to his right to speech, despite a large portion of us not liking it one bit. Hell, there have been "deniers" that have won Pultzer Prize's. For that matter, being a Holocaust-denier is not a criminal offense, but to be technical here, this is not a freedom of speech issue for Mr. Zundel. Zundel is not a Canadian citizen. He is a German citizen. As such, Canada has the right to deem him a/an undesirable alien and deport him back to Germany. Mr. Zundel's message was given with a specific intent, as with virtually all Holocaust-deniers, and that intent was malicious.




seekerof

[edit on 1-3-2005 by Seekerof]

Let's rationalize what's going on here:

As a neo-nazi Zundel was promoting and distributing hate messages. He was locked up and then deported for his own protection.

By denying the holocaust it is obvious that he therefore does not know right from wrong. Based on that and that his status as a neo nazi was becoming popular (Internet sites were getting a lot of hits due to increased media publicity, and his books were selling) he was considered a threat to national security. He wasn't charged because of freedom of speech, but deported becaused of his increasing popularity.