Sen McSally says she was raped in the Air Force by a superior officer

a reply to: projectvxn

That's so sad to hear... and so infuriating.

I really hope this is the start of real reform and fixing what's broke.

American soldiers today don't act like American soldiers in the past. Respect and lay off the porn.

originally posted by: queenofswords
ETA: I'm assuming this happened in the 90's, but since she served to 2010, maybe there were text msgs. and social media discussions if it happened within the last decade or so.

Unfortunately, your first assumption is probably more accurate, leaving little chance of electronic evidence.

From the source article:

"I stayed silent for many years, but later in my career, as the military grappled with the scandals, and their wholly inadequate responses, I felt the need to let some people know I too was a survivor," she said, choking up as she detailed what had happened to her. "I was horrified at how my attempt to share generally my experiences was handled. I almost separated from the Air Force at 18 years of service over my despair. Like many victims, I felt like the system was raping me all over again."

And:

The Arizona Republican, who served 26 years in the Air Force, made the disclosure during a Senate hearing on sexual assault allegations in the military.

Sadly, looks like this occurred "many years" before the 18 year mark. So, she retired in 2010, her military career started in 1984, and she was assaulted many years before 2002 (the 18 year mark).

originally posted by: Agit8dChop
The problem nowadayws is you can sleep with a women and everything's fine. One day she pops and claims it's rape and she's been mentally scarred since.... No way to prove one way or another..

This isnt just sleeping with a woman. This is a power trip by a senior officer and

if she cried rape (which it was) all the other officers would close rank and back

each other up, and she would have to do the worst maneuvers (I dont know the

army name for it.) to break her.

Oops. She also had this problem in school?

During an interview with The Wall Street Journal in April 2018, McSally alleged her track and field coach pressured her into a sexual relationship during her senior year at the Catholic girls' school. She told the Journal that the coach used "emotional manipulation" to keep her compliant. She did not reveal the incident to friends or family until ten years after her graduation.[3][4]

en.wikipedia.org...


McSally sounds like one tough cookie otherwise.

How do you reconcile the woman described below with the woman described above?

McSally served in the United States Air Force (USAF) from 1988 to 2010 and rose to the rank of colonel before retiring. One of the highest-ranking female pilots in the history of the Air Force, McSally was the first American woman to fly in combat following the 1991 lifting of the prohibition on female combat pilots. McSally flew the Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II close air support aircraft over Iraq and Kuwait during Operation Southern Watch. She was also the first female commander of a USAF fighter squadron (the 354th Fighter Squadron (354 FS), based at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base). In 2001, she sued the United States Department of Defense in McSally v. Rumsfeld, challenging the military policy that required United States and United Kingdom servicewomen stationed in Saudi Arabia to wear the body-covering abaya when traveling off base in the country.

a reply to: queenofswords



YES..... It was the above person that made her who she was!!

It gave her the strength to become who she became.

a reply to: eletheia

But then it happened to her AGAIN!

ETA: Heck, she went up against Donald Rumsfeld in a lawsuit! She couldn't file a lawsuit against somebody that sexually assaulted her?

On a side note

What does this say about women in the military. Shouldn’t she be trained in self defense?

Was she passed because of her sex?

a reply to: SocratesJohnson

Shouldn’t she be trained in self defense?

You would think so.

That's why I ask the question. Was it a violent forceable rape? Or, was it the second kind I mentioned in a post above?

Does the difference in the two even matter? Yes or no?

originally posted by: SocratesJohnson
On a side note

What does this say about women in the military.

Um... that women are subject to sexual assault and the brutal rapists are protected by the system, to such a corrupt extent that the congress is compelled to hold hearings about it.

Seems to me it says much more about the men in the military and the gross dereliction of duty within the military to its members. Unless one just wants to ignore the brute and blame the victim.

Shouldn’t she be trained in self defense?

Let's take this a step further. How many military infractions and violations could she be charged with for physically assaulting a superior officer by a complicit staff?

Let's take it a step further still. How much abuse must she take by her superiors and her employer for HIS crime??? Just how much will make you happy?

Was she passed because of her sex?

I know damn well she was raped because of her sex.

a reply to: queenofswords

Does the difference in the two even matter? Yes or no?

In what sense? In that the guy who forced himself on her is any less guilty of a crime? No. In the sense the crime is unprosecutable? Very likely.

You seem to think it does make a difference... you at least hold out the possibility. So what are you really asking? Do you think it matters?

a reply to: Boadicea

This is hard to put into words. Let me just paint a picture:

Rape type #1 --- She is walking at night on base headed toward another building a hundred yards away. Another airman walking toward her stops her and engages in a conversation. Suddenly, he grabs her, and pulls her between buildings. He gets physically violent and perhaps puts a knife to her throat and proceeds to remove her clothes forcibly and rapes her.

Rape type #2 --- She and the airman have had a casual flirtatious relationship for a few days. They go out together and wind up in his apt. or her apt. or somewhere private and get romantic. As the situation gets heated, she begins to have mixed feelings, but continues. It reaches that do-or-don't point. She decides (perhaps after she is partially undressed) not to go any further, but, it does, and she either doesn't make herself understood clearly by forcibly halting his advances, or he ignores her resistance. If she does use force to halt his advance, then indeed it is rape. If she did not, is it really rape?

a reply to: UncleTomahawk

I agree....in that time frame the 80's I wouldn't report a rape by a co-worker either especially a superior boss. It often damaged your career irrevocably I know from experience. Women used to put up and shut up or be hounded out of the work place especially the Military. The higher ups in the Military didn't really want women there in the first place.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Agit8dChop
The problem nowadayws is you can sleep with a women and everything's fine. One day she pops and claims it's rape and she's been mentally scarred since.... No way to prove one way or another..

This isnt just sleeping with a woman. This is a power trip by a senior officer and

if she cried rape (which it was) all the other officers would close rank and back

each other up, and she would have to do the worst maneuvers (I dont know the

army name for it.)

to break her.

But she didn't, right? she kept it quiet.

Would girls do the same? close ranks around a female if she accused someone?

Don't get me wrong, rape is haneous and that's why on the scale of horrid crimes it ranks 2nd behind murder.

Because it has such a high rating in society, the accusation of it or public inference of someone being guilty of it must only occur when there proof is there and the police are involved immediately.

Too many times has a mans life been destroyed because a jilted lover or a scorned woman has decided to cry rape.. knowing full well he cant defend himself. Girls are super quick believing each other or closing ranks around each other and a mans reputation/life is destroyed no an accusation - no matter how suspicious.

There should be a statute on rape accusations - 1 month.. if you believe you've been raped then you must report it in 28 days and be willing to go on the record and face your accuser in a police interview room.

Coming out years later has far too many loops holes, missed memories and destruction of evidence to prove it one way or another.. and its the man that suffers for ever..

a reply to: queenofswords

Happens more than one may think.

An anecdote: I personally know two females who were raped by superior officers while enlisted. One in the Army, one in the Air Force.

a reply to: queenofswords

In general it is tough for sexual assault victims to come forward but even more difficult and treacherous if you are in the military. The way the military is organized and functions is detrimental to creating an environment where someone feels like they can effectively report the assault without facing consequences from their fellow soldiers.

a reply to: queenofswords

If he understood that she was saying "no" and forced himself on her anyway, then of course it is still rape. It may or may not be a brutal or violent rape, but it's still rape.

How about this scenario: Two people on a date go back to her/his place. He approaches her from behind, by surprise, has her on her belly, his weight on top of her, and she is unable to fight in any way. If she is unable to inflict any physical damage upon him, and can only verbally refuse, isn't that still rape? I've actually seen someone brag about doing exactly this on a disgusting site I will not name...

But men damn well know when they are going too far. I just read an article about a study about this very subject (I tried to find it real quick but I can't). I asked my husband, my son and several other men if they thought men know when they're crossing a line, and every one said yes. Not only that, they said these guys brag about it later. Like any rape, it's a power play. Many men who rape like to control the circumstances as much as the act. It is often planned, especially when the person is known, such as incest, date rapes and co-workers.

originally posted by: queenofswords
This is where I have a problem with some women. If she does not want the encounter to progress to the point of sexual intercourse, why doesn't she fight? How does she get up the next day, go to work as usual, and stay silent?

A couple of months ago I was over and my Mom's and we started to talk about #MeToo and she admitted to me about being raped by, at that time, a friend. He forced himself onto her and initially she fought back but to no avail. She eventually stopped fighting because, in her words, she "just wanted the whole thing to end". In her mind, it was better to just lie there and take it if it meant that it would end sooner and then she could get away from him.

There are hundreds if not thousands of reasons why a woman will react a certain way in this kind of situation. There isn't a blanket answer to them all.

a reply to: Boadicea

Most definitely, in your scenario, that is rape...and I would say, violent rape. Afterwards, the first thing she should do is call the police...period.

Of course men know when they are going too far if the woman tells him forcibly in no uncertain terms. But, my point is that if those women don't halt the process forcibly, then, is it rape. If they him-haw around, then when it happens, she thinks she was raped.

Look at what McSally said:

I blamed myself. I was ashamed and confused. I thought I was strong but felt powerless. The perpetrators abused their position of power in profound ways. In one case I was preyed upon and raped by a superior officer."

Plural? This happened to her more than one time?

share generally my experiences

Again...experiences (plural).

Something is wrong here. Are men going around raping all over the place? Or, are women him-hawing and sending weak signals of protest.

I'm not saying women don't get raped everyday. But, when it happens, speak the hell up...call the police...go to the hospital...file a lawsuit if your superior gives you any # about it. McSally was a strong capable woman. If she was sexually assaulted or raped multiple times, and never spoke up, there is a big hole where information should be.

a reply to: queenofswords

Apparently, McSally feared greater abuse if she did report the incidents based on her knowledge of the experiences of other women who did report incidents. The information we have is sparse, little to no detail, and I'm going to assume that some of what she experienced would more appropriately be called abuse than assault, with everything in between. That is an assumption on my part though.

Note that Sally is not making any personal allegations against any specific person or persons. She is naming and shaming only the system that failed her and so many others.