Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

originally posted by: mirageman
Poking the hornets nest....

The IDs of the Parties involved in the 2007 Nimitz UFO Video Leak are Known!!!

That's an interesting thread. When I read it I wondered if you realized it was such a charged topic, and I see by your preface "Poking the hornets nest...." that you're well aware of that! Hehehe...

originally posted by: lakespirit
a reply to: coursecatalog

Sometimes film projects 'Stuck in Development Hell' equates to projects 'Caught and Killed'. Kinda like every movie script that ever tried to tell the story of Jack Parsons and his colorful contributions to the space program.

Not a movie, but in April 2018 an interesting television episode aired about that, which Amazon now says is "currently unavailable", is that some sort of conspiracy that we can't still watch it? No idea, but I did watch before, and it was interesting:

www.amazon.com...


While on the surface that may appear to be completely off topic to this thread, there is an interesting link that the TV show interviewed various authors who knew something about the topic, and guess who one of the authors was? None other than Peter Levenda who co-authored the Sekret Machines book with Tom Delonge, which is sort of an indirect link back to To The Stars academy.

Perhaps there might also be an indirect link to the comments by George Knapp that "the powers that be" wanted to shut down UFO research like AATIP because they believed demonic forces were involved in UFOs, and where do they get such crazy ideas? Then I saw that show sort of painted Parsons as the father of the modern space program and that he summoned demons or something dealing with the occult in his spare time.

I can understand why Isaac Newton had occult beliefs as it was part of his culture back then, but by the time of Jack Parsons we should have been well past that, and if George Knapp is to be believed (I'm not sure how much to trust him anymore) there are still people in high places with such beliefs as UFOs being demonic. Apparently old superstitions don't die easily.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

And it ain't the way. More so now than ever, perhaps.


Demons and Stuff

a reply to: lakespirit

That would make such a good movie too, perhaps Olaru should pitch it to Netflix, seems to me that it would be right up their alley. Parsons even had 'matinee idol' looks and the actress Rose McGowan is a dead-ringer for Majorie Cameron. Sex, magic and explosions...how much more Hollywood can you get?

But then with Scientology's influence in Hollywood, perhaps they don't want the Ron L Hubbard association dragged through the mud, although they claimed that US Navy and more specifically, Robert Heinlein, had sent Hubbard to 'spy' on Parson's when mud was thrown at them, so I am not convinced it is as straightforward as that.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

While on the surface that may appear to be completely off topic to this thread, there is an interesting link that the TV show interviewed various authors who knew something about the topic, and guess who one of the authors was? None other than Peter Levenda who co-authored the Sekret Machines book with Tom Delonge, which is sort of an indirect link back to To The Stars academy.

It's not just that, "To The Stars" is derived from Parson's moto "Through Hardship To The Stars" per aspera ad astra.

I suspect that behind their cargo cult theory is the basic principle of what does up must come down and what happens when you don't see it go up, or recognize it once it has been atmospherically transmuted, and that the rockets that Parson and Edward Forman shot up, as well as those of Robert Goddard in Roswell, have consequently attained a religious status amongst UFO cultists.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

MM covered it in the first page of the first thread in regards to an interesting nod to the TTSA name;


On the topic of how "fundamentalist" religious beliefs kicks into all of this, here is something I find very curious.

The "Religious Fundamentalists" were "blamed" for AATIP being shut down apparently; I find this even more odd considering that many that supported that narrative are the same people that are now championing Marco Rubio as a "Disclosure Senator" when he was raised Mormon in Las Vegas and then converted to Roman Catholicism and is considered "Evangelical" in his beliefs - BUT unveiled the "Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon Task Force" and wants it to be disclosed and funded further?

These same people want you to believe that AATIP continued anyway, its name changed, its base of operations moved etc. I think there is some excellent positioning and pivoting of opinion and presented narrative here. I think the sweetheart deal was found out and people were not too happy and demanded it be shut down.

Now back to this AATIP program being continued; I think it was closed due to the reasons outlaid above. Whats interesting however, I do believe there was an actual real program that DID look into these issues; but it had nothing to do with Bigelow and it had nothing to do with AATIP/AAWSAP.

Here's the rub, those REAL programs, more than likely operated out of the Office of Naval Intelligence as has been indicated by the 2020-2021 Senate Intelligence Authorization Act. This way TTSA and its supporters will be proved correct! They will claim these programs ARE the continuation of AAWSAP/AATIP - when in fact, it wasn't, it was literally a sweetheart deal and Zondo was brought in to wrap it all up whilst the real show was over at the ONI.

The real stuff, Bob, Harry and the forever Bird Boys of the Aviary had nothing to do with...

originally posted by: pigsy2400
MM covered it in the first page of the first thread in regards to an interesting nod to the TTSA name;

No doubt he did, but it is also on Jack Parson's wikipedia page where it comes with considerably less rhetoric.

originally posted by: pigsy2400

On the topic of how "fundamentalist" religious beliefs kicks into all of this, here is something I find very curious.

The "Religious Fundamentalists" were "blamed" for AATIP being shut down apparently; I find this even more odd considering that many that supported that narrative are the same people that are now championing Marco Rubio as a "Disclosure Senator" when he was raised Mormon in Las Vegas and then converted to Roman Catholicism and is considered "Evangelical" in his beliefs - BUT unveiled the "Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon Task Force" and wants it to be disclosed and funded further?

These same people want you to believe that AATIP continued anyway, its name changed, its base of operations moved etc. I think there is some excellent positioning and pivoting of opinion and presented narrative here. I think the sweetheart deal was found out and people were not too happy and demanded it be shut down.

Now back to this AATIP program being continued; I think it was closed due to the reasons outlaid above. Whats interesting however, I do believe there was an actual real program that DID look into these issues; but it had nothing to do with Bigelow and it had nothing to do with AATIP/AAWSAP.

Here's the rub, those REAL programs, more than likely operated out of the Office of Naval Intelligence as has been indicated by the 2020-2021 Senate Intelligence Authorization Act. This way TTSA and its supporters will be proved correct! They will claim these programs ARE the continuation of AAWSAP/AATIP - when in fact, it wasn't, it was literally a sweetheart deal and Zondo was brought in to wrap it all up whilst the real show was over at the ONI.

The real stuff, Bob, Harry and the forever Bird Boys of the Aviary had nothing to do with...

Uh huh...you could almost say that they're just being used, unwittingly or otherwise, as 'cut-outs' couldn't you?

The CIA and ONI, of all the interagency intelligence relationships, has always been a close one because their interests overlap more than any of the other forces, land or air. It was/is the same with the Admiralty and MI6 in the UK. They are all keeping secrets from each other in the US, and just as MI5 and MI6 have conflicts of interest, so does the CIA, NSA and FBI etc etc. AIr surveillance and later satellite surveillance by the CIA put them at logger-heads with the Air Force. I'd like to presume these issues have been resolved, but I also think that TTSA is part of a solution to this inter-agency/military hostility and an attempt at building a detente of information sharing.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

That's an interesting thread. When I read it I wondered if you realized it was such a charged topic, and I see by your preface "Poking the hornets nest...." that you're well aware of that! Hehehe...

LOL!! Arbie. I told you all to keep watching the s¶es. Note how people react and their behaviour becomes strange and erratic when faced with seemingly innocuous questions. You're a smart guy Arby. I'm sure you've worked out a few things in the last few days.

Tom DeLonge Explains What Most People Don't Get About Aliens, Talks Why He Dedicated Himself to Them.

Tom and the aliens

As I see it...he is trying to promote the Jacques Vallée type of "aliens" My only problem is: he is not telling anything new. Speak the truth or shut up. "I know something i wont tell..naaa..naaa...naaaaaa"

I'm an ecperiencer but i don't know s*it what these entities are. I worked hard to understand but the more i learn...the less i know

Its nearly that time again....Unidentified Series 2!

Official Synopsis;

"In season two, each episode will center around a specific case or aspect of the modern UAP phenomenon and follow the credible team of connected investigators including former military intelligence official and Special Agent In-Charge, Luis Elizondo, and former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense and Intelligence, Chris Mellon."

"The pair will continue to divulge what the US government (and other governments) know about these bizarre craft, hear additional firsthand eyewitness accounts of UAP sightings from military and civilian personnel, and share additional fact-based insight and information about these craft in an effort to produce tangible evidence and build the most indisputable case for the existence and threat of UAP ever assembled."

...here is the overview for the first two Episodes;

Episode 1 - UFOs In Combat

The team launches new investigations aided by a fresh wave of exclusive eyewitnesses; these US military veterans testify to a series of encounters between the military and UFOs dating back to the Vietnam War; the team attempts to connect the dots.

Episode 2; The Triangle Mystery

Former intelligence officer Chris Mellon spearheads an investigation into one of the UFO pehnomenons great mysteries; giant triangles, allegedly capable of incredible acceleration and speeds, have been seen all over the world.

Tom delonge + Elizondo AMA on reddit right now???

www.reddit.com...

originally posted by: TheMadScientist2
Tom delonge + Elizondo AMA on reddit right now???

www.reddit.com...

EXCELLENT!!!!!

Now would be the chance for all the talking heads on this forum to directly ask Tom and Lue their probing questions.

Danny Silva was hyping this old obcure novella on Twitter a few weeks back coincidentally. Said "a friend" reccommended it. I read it but can't say it was too enlightening.

LUE: If I could share one anecdotal story of the phenomena I direct peoples attention to a collection of short stories to a novella called "Chains Of The Sea." In the second short story the author discusses the day UFOs arrived, from a science fiction perspective. Butn the way the short story describes the phenomena is very similar to people in real life that have described the phenomena, personal experiences. While I'm not endorsing this story as being truthful or accurate, I think it provides a fundamentally different perspective and it forces us to think about this phenomena in a different way. Though the book was written in the early 70s, the author had an incredible insight into modern day life and was able to incorporate aspects of artificial intelligent and geopolitical situations that we have today. So if anyone wanted a new perspective of the phenomena in an entertaining way, I would direct them to "Chains Of The Sea."

a reply to: coursecatalog
I am watching in the Reddit stuff and noted it is mentioned. I have to admit so far its all not overly riveting. As far as the book goes not read it.

Wish I could be more positive for Celltys sake , but its not floated my boat so far.

From my experience people tend to avoid answering questions they don't want to answer.

a reply to: Baablacksheep

The gist of the novella is that there are many races on Earth that we don't really see although certain special people can sense them. When the aliens land they don't even notice humans are here. We mean nothing to them.

I posted a question on the AMA about the video leaker.

a reply to: [post=25290112]mirageman[/po
st]

I most certainly agree on that MM.

@ CC. It sounds like a bed time story that a five year old might barf at😂.

I did like Lues photo. I sense MM could work his magic with that one!

I will take a look at what you posted. I cant make much sense of Reddit the format is poor.

a reply to: coursecatalog

I see your comment.

Nothing more than an advert for their TV show...

The best evidence that Zondo said he saw whilst "head of AATIP" was the eyewitness testimony.

😁

Because ufology doesn't have any of that!

a reply to: pigsy2400

They are pretty much saying now, "Whoever thinks they know what UFOs really are is kidding themselves."

Huh? How long has Lue been looking into this? That's all he's got? Witness testimony??

What's the point of Tom's genius plan that allegedly impressed all those bigwigs if his plan is actually "You know what, we need more data!"

They spend all this time raising expectations and now there's nothing in the box when they open it?

And their social media army will insist that they "already gave us discolosure."





And as for the second season of their show, all I can say is:

originally posted by: mirageman
LOL!! Arbie. I told you all to keep watching the s¶es. Note how people react and their behaviour becomes strange and erratic when faced with seemingly innocuous questions. You're a smart guy Arby. I'm sure you've worked out a few things in the last few days.

I've figured out a lot of things, but figuring out the actual agenda of various factions of the intelligence community still eludes me. There may be more than one agenda at work.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Arbitrageur

And it ain't the way. More so now than ever, perhaps.

Demons and Stuff

Just remember, when you ask if UFOs are demonic, try to have a "rational, pragmatic, agnostic approach to these things"...

Question asked in Tom DeLonge's AMA on ATS:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

...would you say that the big guys know that there's an element of what we might call 'demonology' at play? I promise I'm not a religious nutjob, nor a fully whacked-out conspiracy theorist - I have a rational, pragmatic, agnostic approach to these things.

originally posted by: celltypespecific
Now would be the chance for all the talking heads on this forum to directly ask Tom and Lue their probing questions.

In case you missed it, Tom DeLonge already did an AMA here, and he already gave us the answer to the "Are the UFOs demonic?" question above:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I believe it is demonic. This would make sense with my knowledge.

So if Lue had asked Tom for advice on what to put on the release form for the UFO/UAP videos,
instead of saying the videos show "UAV, Balloons, and other UAS",

shouldn't it say instead "Demonic UAV, Demonic Balloons, and other Demonic UAS?"

Tom DeLonge was told lots of things, and Cellty you should definitely accept whatever he says he has been told, and continue not doing your own high school trig to verify what Mick West says about the "demonic" "gofast" UFO that's not going fast:

Tom Delonge AMA posts, page 1

Tom DeLonge was told about numerous crashes at Roswell:

Although I have not asked the Roswell question, I was told there were "numerous" crashes and we have been reengineereing the tech

Tom DeLonge confused me a bit with this answer. He said the UFOs were demonic, I guess meaning bad gods, but apparently some are good gods too, why didn't he mention the good gods when he said they were demonic?

caver78 Q: there are lots of alleged types of Et's zipping around. Can you enlighten us to the who's, what's and why's specifically?
Tom DeLonge A: Good and Bad gods... There are multiple ones.

The guy who made up the alien bodies story at Roswell is a proven liar, but Tom believes the story anyway:

Wagius99 Q: do you believe that extra terrestrial bodies were retrieved at Roswell 1947?
Tom DeLonge A: Yes

This may be the funniest answer of all, as if he can tell the difference:

francogirotti Q: Hi tom , how can we be sure you're not a disinformer , I say that I find it strange that by defending the Masons are a seeker of truth .
Tom DeLonge A: I assembled Advisors from very specific parts of the Government, not the areas that have active counter-intel programs. Yes, Intelligence, but not couter-intel.

Tom DeLonge was told the ability to engineer and manipulate gravity has been created.

I was told that the ability to engineer and manipulate gravity has been created.

Tom DeLonge was told Philip Corso's book is true. Nevermind that all those technologies Corso says we got from aliens have a clearly traceable history right here on Earth:

knowledgedesired Q:When will humanity start to receive technology that will change our current situation?
Tom DeLonge A: We already have. Read Philip Corsos book. I was told it is true

So Cellty I know you're on the edge of your chair about to read Phillip Corso's book, since Tom Delonge said to read it. But then later in the AMA he says something different:

Tom Delonge AMA posts, page 2

TechniXcality Q: Is there any smoking gun evidence that you have come across that we may not be aware of?
Tom DeLonge A: Corso's testimony was true, but read his notes- Not the book.

So, read Corso's book, or, not read the book? Choose your favorite answer from Tom. Don't ask Mick West or anybody who knows the actual history of lasers and fiber optics.

This is the question Tom would ask the suspected demonic balloon in the Gofast video:

Soloprotocol Q: Tom, Hi. You talk of the questions you have asked humans about the UFO Phenomenon, but if say you had the chance to question "Them", What would your first Question be. ?
Tom DeLonge A: "Are you after the souls of man?"

Lasers and Fiber Optics came from Alien tech according to Tom DeLonge, even though anybody can trace their history on Earth:

aliens427 Q: Hey Tom, what are some prime examples of government technology and weaponry being adapted from any sort of extraterrestrial technology?
Tom DeLonge A: Lasers, most Flying Saucers, Fiber Optics, Stealth

Tom D talked a lot about aliens being gods and demons but not once did he recommend the same book as Phage about our demon-haunted world, he only recommended Corso's book, then un-recommended it.

raeder Q: 20 minutes to say aliens are here and they are both Gods and demons. No proof or any sources, just gonna have to trust Tom.
Tom DeLonge A: It's the best your ever gonna get, so I'd listen a bit if I were you. You treat this materiel and the men working on it like its a joke. It's a subject that they have lost lives over, something that almost ended up in Nuclear war. Please be grateful and stop complaining

So really the only question I had after all the answers Tom gave us is why the release form for the UFOs didn't say "Demonic UAV, Demonic Balloons, and other Demonic UAS", but I can already guess that Lue would probably say that's not politically correct to put on the release form. And why does he say they are "demonic" but then he says they are good gods and bad gods, are the good gods demonic too? Are any of the three UFOs released by the pentagon good gods or are they all bad gods? I'd like to know what Tom thinks but I don't think he would know the answer since they are unidentified. If they knew if the "balloon" mentioned on the UFO video release form was a good god or a bad god, maybe it wouldn't be "unidentified".