My latest thinking on what happens to a person after they die

a reply to: Raggedyman

There is no salvation in the apostles creed. Belief in fundamentals is not faith in the personal of Christ work on the Cross. You are lost my friend.

NO, magic in the AV only ALL the WORDS, VERSES, AND SECTIONS just as God wanted us to have them.

You faith as stated above was in a creed, creeds don't save.

a reply to: whereislogic

t is not “the dead soul as a conscious spirit”, “the mind”​ that “is contained in either the earth [Sheol] or kingdom of heaven [Paradise of New Jerusalem]” as Seede claims when he's swapping around words and their meaning and getting pretty much all of them wrong and contradictory compared to the Bible's usage of those words.

I have no quarrel with your nomenclature whatsoever. If your understanding is that the soul is the force of life then there is no harm given in my understanding you.

Hebrews_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The numerous translators of the Masoretic texts as well as various Greek texts do use both Hebrew and Greek very loosely in several manners of descriptions of the life source of man. It can be noted in many instances where we have three and four descriptive references to this theology. --

Matthew_22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Some ancients believed that the spirit of man existed inside the body of man and they had no knowledge of the life source being independent from the body such as medical science confirms today. They simply believed [in ignorance] that when the body died that the spirit came out from its housing and returned to its source after a certain period of time. Meanwhile the spirit hovered about the dead body searching for a way to reenter its house.

In this theological point of view of soul and spirit is certainly a matter of your theological understanding. If you care to understand Genesis 2:7,8 in the manner of which you insist then I have no problem with that.

Moses understood man as two independent sources of two independent substances which gave life to this creation. He called this image and likeness with image being the celestial physicality and likeness being the celestial life force.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

I have not one misunderstanding of what Moses has booked and or the author of Hebrews has booked. Both have the same intent of teaching their conception of life source and both agree in the scholarly understanding.

Ruach is Hebrew for Spirit which is breath or wind---- 378 times in Hebrew -
Nephesh is Hebrew for Soul ---- KJV uses 28 different words to describe Nephesh 780 times.
Psuche is Greek for Soul -- used 103 times

The Ruach was breathed into the Nephesh of man.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

What are you talking about, there is no salvation is the Apostles creed, what does that even mean.
CJ I think you are just arguing for the sake of arguing, excercising your arrogance and imagined better theology. We disagree move on, thanks

I said the creed would suffice, be sufficient to explain to you what I believe. I am saved by Christ on the cross, not a book, words or anything you think.

Your faith is in a bible the early church never had and never needed

a reply to: Raggedyman

My salvation is in the person work of Christ for me personally. The trinity, the virgin birth, believing that there is a God the father, or even in a person of Jesus Christ those things don't save. Salvation is only in Christ and what he did, substitutionary punishment, substitutionary death, substitutionary trip to hell, paid in full God the righteous judgement for men, and then substitutionarly rose again from the grave bodily give us the assurance we will all rise and join him in the clouds evermore to be with him. Each man must understand that and believe that and then exercise faith in him on those points.

My testimony of what I was, How I came to know the work of Christ, saw my need for a saviour and his work for me, I asked his forgiveness for all my sins (even the ones that may come after today) because I was convicted of the Holy Ghost, then he gave me the earnest of the Holy Ghost (something you deny which is faulty at best or no salvation at worse), then from that day forward good works manifested themselves in my life. I later would lead over 720 people to Jesus Christ with those same doctrines of salvation in Christ. I have faith in the One who gives life not a creed but in a Life. If all you can tell me about your salvation is the apostles Creed then forgive me but there is no salvation in a creed of men, salvation only comes through Christ on his finished work of his cross for salvation, it is miraculous and it involves the Holy Ghost/Spirit.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

CJ I think you are a crazy fundamentalist who doesn’t have Jesus or the Holy Spirit. A Judaiser, thought about cutting off any body pieces
I don’t rate the KJV, it’s just a book
I don’t rate your religion, it’s religion
I don’t believe hell is eternal for humans, spirits yes.
I have no idea what earnest of the Spirit means, just psychobable to me, probably from your Judaiser pastors preaching.

You can tell a christian by their fruits, I don’t see the fruit in you or your replies, sorry

This thread is exactly why Christians get a bad wrap..... Stop beating each other w your bibles.... Good god...

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Thing is they don't know the truth none of us do. They just parrot others ideas on it...no imagination.

a reply to: Raggedyman

You still haven't been able to classify me correctly, I am not a Christian fundamentalist. Every time I run into one like you I have to laugh. You believe every fundamental in the "Apostles Creed" (which was established or put into a creed by the original Apostles) and yet call me the fundamentalist. You Kill me! hew I gotta take a breath just LMAOROTF.

You are so used to eating a steady diet of rotten fruit while being told it is good fruit, that I wouldn't trust you to buy me an apple from the farmers market. You are filled with relative teachings and not the pure word of God that you are as lost as a carrot in a cotton gin.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: dfnj2015

You do know there are people on this very forum who don’t want that
Who have stated if God is real they don’t want a relationship with Him and you think God is going to deny their freewill and force them into a relationship

That makes no sense at all

It makes more sense that a person that doesn’t want God simply stops existing
Is erased from Gods memory, become not even a memory

That makes even less sense

So a God doesn't like, therefore you stop existing

He wasnt so wise after all.

Let's everyone go is not kneeling go to hell

Oh wait..

My way of the highway, right?

God's are aweful so far

Because you have to think, even for a normal human it's like at child's temper trantum level

He created that being, the being not a shoe leaker therefore stop existing.. but wait, God has a plan for everyone and knows all that has happened and what will happen

So he created the broken being just to destroy it later on, he put a path on that person that would lead him to destruction?

originally posted by: Malisa

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: dfnj2015

You do know there are people on this very forum who don’t want that
Who have stated if God is real they don’t want a relationship with Him and you think God is going to deny their freewill and force them into a relationship

That makes no sense at all

It makes more sense that a person that doesn’t want God simply stops existing
Is erased from Gods memory, become not even a memory

That makes even less sense

So a God doesn't like, therefore you stop existing

He wasnt so wise after all.

Let's everyone go is not kneeling go to hell

Oh wait..

My way of the highway, right?

God's are aweful so far

Because you have to think, even for a normal human it's like at child's temper trantum level

He created that being, the being not a shoe leaker therefore stop existing.. but wait, God has a plan for everyone and knows all that has happened and what will happen

So he created the broken being just to destroy it later on, he put a path on that person that would lead him to destruction?

You can see it anyway you want to and it’s not my problem or fault

God sent Jesus as an extension of His love and forgiveness, if you refuse that love should God force it on to a person

Your capacity to think is all backwards and childish

God created to have relationship, individuals have a choice, accept or deny, deny and God won’t force.
Unlike you who thinks forcing someone into a relationship is love.

Think about it, stop talking and think

a reply to: Raggedyman

Has it ever been considered that 'the anointed one' (Christ) is the ever present appearance?
Gods invisible love overflows and appears (manifests) as what is actually appearing in plain sight.

So there is only ever what is...... Presence.

Only an insecure mind steps outside what is present......... into time, which never actually exists. Fear of not being drives one out of paradise, which is never not present.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

You are correct God is ever present and evident in all that is around us. To God all time is as the present to him, this is what it means that he is "from everlasting to everlasting". All encompassed time to us is one with him. No human can understand that outside of the indwelling of God. The term eternity as we read it, always seems to be looking forward from a point the person receives/reads that word/term. But it encompasses all time past-present-future.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Itisnowagain

You are correct God is ever present and evident in all that is around us. To God all time is as the present to him, this is what it means that he is "from everlasting to everlasting". All encompassed time to us is one with him. No human can understand that outside of the indwelling of God. The term eternity as we read it, always seems to be looking forward from a point the person receives/reads that word/term. But it encompasses all time past-present-future.

I agree with a lot of the ways you are thinking throughout the thread. I think what you are expressing is an Apophatic theology about God:

en.wikipedia.org...

The ideas of my OP were based on my spending 3 weeks with the Tibetan Book of the Dead. I think the idea we are tortured by demons of our creation when we stare into the mirror of God's infinite perfection is revealing. However, with the right mindset anyone could have the courage to face God and go into the light instead of being reincarnated as someone living in New Jersey. In New Jersey there is only Heaven.

I know Jesus and the words of the Bible are idolized. However, I find the way other religions think about what happens when you die provide insights into the standard model.

For me though, the Jesus mythology has a few holes. For example, if Jesus were God, if you accept the resurrection is proof Jesus is God, then he did not really die in the first place since you cannot kill God. Obviously, Jesus did not die because of his own sins. But it seems to me Jesus had plenty of opportunities to make a different set of choices to avoid being crucified.

To be honest with, I'm actually surprised and kind of stunned by how Jesus is mostly remembered for how he died and not for how he lived. I think the Beatitudes from the sermon on the mount and the idea of how you live your life in the present will determine how your experience God is quite profound. But people hardly ever mention or talk about the Beatitudes.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

ChesterJohn, you might like this video. It is in line with the way you think about God:

originally posted by: Malak777
a reply to: dfnj2015

I think your description is all fantasy. Nothing in the Bible points to what you are saying in any way at all.

I believe when we die, we DIE. There is nothing left of us. From dust we came and to dust we return until the Resurrection. That is what the Bible says happens.

Hell is being reborn here on Earth. Especially if you are reborn to someone living in New Jersey.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Non duality states that there is no person that dies.... only the illusion that there is a person dies.