Have you visited chapel perilous?

a reply to: Baddogma

Yeah the mind is a frightening place to wonder without the proper tools at hand, I'm still on queiting my mind and image concentration, seeing swirly and geometric shapes and able to make an image appear with my mind's eye for like a second.... Remaining passive is hard but I'm seeing results.

Still to experience the big result though, that which removes all doubt.

Edit, I have said before that there are also other conscious forces at play out with the human mind,
Possibly elemental spirits but I don't know.
What's your take on that?
Thanks

originally posted by: BaddogmaIncidentally, Spare's sigil magick got me my first convincing evidence that magic was real... in the sense that anything is real, anyway. I put out a call and got the reply within 40 minutes.

it is as real as you will it to be.
the dweller at the threshold can be applied to both sides of mind from observing to becoming.
with preparation and discipline, (i) that traverse through madness and chaos can be a most pleasant experience.
(ii) all experimentation becomes repeatable with satisfying results.

lol when the abyss searches the mind, a most beautiful result is a big high 5.

fakedirt, student of abra, crowley, helena to name a few.

btw i trust you follow sigil protocol and cover up post-operations, wouldn't want to leave the lighthouse on!

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Peeple

Does Magic not just really amount to an interpretation of the law of attraction?

It could even be simplified to Newton's 2nd law - every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Apply this to human action and you get the law of attraction, karma, and fruit that resembles the tree. To avoid having this "magic" blow up a vial of unidentified slew in your face, it is best to have a deep and reverent respect for the Being which enacted this law of nature.

a reply to: cooperton

the Demiurge??

a reply to: ManyMasks

i have always felt the world is magical, mystical and mysterious, i have always felt like there has been an outside force watching, not God per say but maybe family of the soul or something, i have had no paranormal experiences myself but i have faith in there being more to this world than the grind of everyday life, belief and faith with a good imagination could be the key to us understanding our reason for being.

I too have been lead to go there but delving further and further within I have found that my own consciousness is so deep that it could contain not only this universe but any other one that may be discovered.

the most peaceful and what I think is the deepest you can experience is a void of infinite darkness where you loose yourself and become one with what was before the light.

timeless and endless, only a moment yet forever.

Like I say there is no way to explain with any logic

the concept of God being everything, everywhere, all the time

to me, stemmed or separated from this oneness and brought light which in turn ...... I cant explain

the void became conscious, with consciousness comes separation so the one can be conscious of another.

the void, nothingness became something,

the only way to explain it is like waking from a dreamless sleep, it was dark and then you open your eyes unaware of any dreams or your life before you opened your eyes.

Chapel Perilous can be also used as a metaphor for a psychological state where a person maybe exposed to information that does not fit into their own reality tunnel and they therefore have to question everything or ignore it because it doesn't fit. so have you been?, or do you even dare enter?

this is seriously everyday.

especially if you come to sites like ATS where there are 1000s sharing their experiences and thoughts daily.

Mixed with your own thoughts and experiences


and to me its all in the mind, reality is consciousness and stems deeper into the unconscious mind and as much as its unreal its real. depends on who perceives it even though in the deepest dark, the void there is no who but to be conscious one must separate from that void.

Its a way to explain everything without loosing your mind.

telling another its only in their mind, a delusion when it doesn't match with your reality at that moment, looking at it from a different perspective may help an individual understand where another is coming from at that moment and why they are.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

wow did you read my post on page one that had my dream op linked.
it was about being in the void with nothing but a black beautiful flowing
woman that was floating above me, she looked at me passively and
i yearned to touch her as i floated up i manged to touch her flowing
bottom half and i had an explosion of ecstasy out my whole body (unexplainable amazing feeling)
and i woke up

originally posted by: ManyMasks
a reply to: InhaleExhale

wow did you read my post on page one that had my dream op linked.
it was about being in the void with nothing but a black beautiful flowing
woman that was floating above me, she looked at me passively and
i yearned to touch her as i floated up i manged to touch her flowing
bottom half and i had an explosion of ecstasy out my whole body (unexplainable amazing feeling)
and i woke up

Didn't get to that,

just had a quick read of the Op and a few things popped in my mind from what you posted.

I am at work but spending more time on ATS than actually working.

Naughty me

Just logged off and then saw this post so I had to quickly reply.

tomorrow I will have better read of the thread and replied

in a way I don't want too because it makes my mind go beyond but its just way tooo interesting not to

You want to explain but sound like a nut as I keep saying but funnily enough some maybe get it and other things I have tried to share about own personal beliefs.

Peeple, the poster that made the 1st reply had a thread what would ask God and one thing they posted in that thread was about how they hate blind faith which made my mind rush and come up with nonsense to try and explain how there isn't blind faith when it concerns an individuals faith in a god or some type of "higher" intelligence.

Its weird how certain things said seem challenging to me and it triggers me to post with stuff I never even thought about before in a deeper sense top try and explain my perspective on a matter that didn't matter until it was presented in a simple sentence in a persons post.

I will have a read about your dream and more of the thread and links you posted when I log on tomorrow.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

thanks in advance

its good to debate on things you dont believe as you find new insights
even diving deeper and trying to get into the way of thinking of that person who has
displayed different views is beneficial in my eyes, we are all products of our conditioning
and our environment, Skinner believed he could condition any child into the man of his
choosing. tiger woods played golf from age 3 or something and had a conditioner in his
father who was tough and precise.... its repetition that facilitates excellence.

a reply to: fakedirt

i trust you follow sigil protocol and cover up post-operations, wouldn't want to leave the lighthouse on!

Erm... frankly, it's been over 20 years and I don't remember nor am I rightly sure I knew about dousing signal fires or closing open doors when I did it. I may have glossed over that chapter, being impetuous and indestructible... back then.

Thinking about it, neglecting that aspect might explain some weirdness.

Well, cautionary tales are useful, but there might be more learning to do.

a reply to: ManyMasks

Yes. I experienced Chapel Perilous many decades ago.

The name is diminutive in that it intends to minimize belief while espousing the virtues of disbelief. In cheap layman’s terms: to be in Chapel Perilous means that you are a hard hitting investigator and cool guy seeker who won’t fall for any charlatans pranks or trickery. But this is all self-deception. Regardless...

Chapel Perilous is an appropriate description of the phenomenon relating to a person’s apprehension and subsequent misunderstanding of their mystical experiences, inquiries, etc... The darkness alluded to is simply ignorance. Nonetheless, it is real and palpable, but not the point nor the end of one’s investigations. It is merely an effect of material/spiritual transcendence, and as such a temporary abode of misunderstanding, confusion and immaturity.

Wilson spoke about his experience with Chapel Perilous as it related to Sirius but offered several other explanations so as to draw the reader’s attention to the problem of identifying the cause and effect of his new found awareness. In the end he led the reader to accept an answer of “Coincidance”. His agnosticism appears to have been more of a symptom of his inability to focus than actual dis-belief. (Re: As per his writings which were full of ADD like ramblings. The public may have thought it was clever, but others knew he was ailing physically. - Research the mess he left after he exited his physical body (death) - his adult children were faced with a mountain of unpaid IRS taxes, bills, etc...). This is not to malign the importance of his work, but to illustrate the WYSIWYG aspect of his writing. In short, it is obvious that as an avowed agnostic Wilson never had ANY intention of answering his own or anyone else’s questions. Therefore it could be concluded that he may not have been the best authority on matters relating to the realms of transcendence whether it be one’s own nervous system or aspects of the material and spiritual worlds.

In the end - Chapel Perilous was a name which was employed by the gross materialists. The atheist and agnostic alike could not and would not accept that the realm they were investigating was the ACTUAL spiritual world. Instead they ascribed these dimensions to the “mind” and perpetuated Crowley’s belief that these were all manifestations of mind/brain activity - which they chose to call “circuitry”. Those who are authorities on the matter know the so called circuitry of mind is not located in the brain, but the heart. Jung, was not a Bona Fide authority regardless of his succeeding Freud. Nor was Freud remotely correct in his observations. However, Jung was more than three quarters correct in his analysis, he simply lacked the most important part of the equation which was/is more than all the other parts combined; the fact that the unconscious is simply the spiritual world/s. Regarding AOS he was vile, full of wanton deviancy and possessed a demonic sexual appetite which culminated in his “clay vessel” and sigil work. His research was not unique nor an advancement, it was in fact, a return to hellish forms of magick known long ago for their potency and subsequent corruptive outcomes. Magick performed for the sake of it’s potency leads to quackery, for why would one perform magick in the first place were they not expecting a satisfactory outcome? But that doesn’t keep fools from being foolish. (Do what thou wilt and all of that... )

Regarding Wilson; he subscribed to Leary’s idea that these experiences of Chapel Perilous could “pre-capitulate” the nervous system into a higher state of consciousness. This is not entirely untrue. There IS a capitulation where the material capitulates or “gives itself over” to the spiritual. Where the psychonauts got it wrong was trying to ignore the spiritual world by burying their ignorance of these matters in pseudo scientific language and pop-culture semantics. In short they were hustling age-old truths known to those who were and are bona fide spiritual masters. Cloaked in the hip guise of psychosexual counter culture revolutionaries and know-it-all mystic shamans, they mainstreamed magick for the masses better than Crowley could have dreamed.

What the present-day magician, psychonaut, or suburban spiritualist must ask themselves is: “to who’s benefit am I endevouring?” And under who’s authority? The atheist and agnostic consider their own authority ample seniority, while the devotees and servants of the Supreme know this to be truly perilous and misinformed.

a reply to: MrAlphabetman

Thanks for that reply you are clearly very informed on this subject, you sound like Peter Carroll, he has emailed me a couple of times after I asked him some questions about chaos magic, i also wondered when reading RAWS cosmic trigger how much the death of his daughter affected ( I did cry after reading that bit) his reasoning.
If that happened to me I would be like fck the spirit world too.
I don't expect a reply as you seem to be a man of few posts but do you think Jung maybe 3/4 correct because he was afraid how the truth would affect his career and legacy.

I myself am agnostic, I believe in a supreme being but feel that it is an unknowable concept for the human brain, maybe an adept that can visit all the layers of consciousness has a better idea of the God question or maybe he is more attuned with the demiurge concept, I don't know but the quest I am on I feel I am destined for chapel perilous and I will have the correct tools for that journey.

a reply to: ManyMasks

If we are more than the sum of our parts then the reason for existence may well be simply experience.

It's the only reason that makes any sense.

As to our existence we as far as i can determine, we play the cards we are dealt.

originally posted by: ManyMasks



'I myself am agnostic, I believe in a supreme being but feel that it is an unknowable concept for the human brain, maybe an adept that can visit all the layers of consciousness has a better idea of the God question or maybe he is more attuned with the demiurge concept.'



if i may suggest, don't pay too much mind to one over the other. it will be revealed to you in due course along one of the seven highways (guarded by the way with a powerful presence). when passage is barred, don't give up, dust oneself off and prepare for next time.

'I don't know but the quest I am on I feel I am destined for chapel perilous and I will have the correct tools for that journey.'

you have my best wishes on this journey manymasks. I humbly offer you a personal perspective being just one individual
amongst many with experience. meditate on that if you will, it will clarify my position.

to all---this thread is high calibre and what has been furnished has re-energised my awe. lest I come across as being an asshat I assure you that my intentions are pure in these matters.

regards fakedirt.

edit on 25-2-2019 by fakedirt because: tau!

a reply to: andy06shake

If we are more than the sum of our parts then the reason for existence may well be simply experience.

It's the only reason that makes any sense.

I couldn't agree more.

Concerning Robert Anton Wilson's reaction to the death of his daughter Luna, we can conclude a few things because he did put his thoughts on the subject into writing. (If my memory serves me correctly) it was my understanding that RAW was open to the idea of some kind of cumulative debt (karma) that was being balanced through the barbaric actions of the Native American who killed his daughter Luna. Wilson seemed to think that there was blood on the hands of his European ancestors (and thus subsequent generations of Irish gentlemen like himself) to the degree that maybe he had passed this on to Luna. It was a far out stretch, but sympathetic readers easily agreed thinking to themselves, "Yes, that could be the cause... good point Bob." But over time and in his subsequent books he made it clear that he had abandoned this sort of interpretation and had settled with a fair amount of resentment towards his daughter's killer. In the end, I think most of us identified with this sort of approach and adopted a "I can't blame ya' Bro' " attitude which manifested itself for this sort of conclusion.

However... the whole story is very poignant because THAT IS Chapel Perilous (CP). Wilson's other experiences were mere child's play compared to the real gut-wrenching work he had to do to exit CP with his sanity in check. The blowhard mystic would prefer the CP term stay the domain of ritualized ceremonial magic, but the perceptive reader will understand that Wilson included the story of Luna for the very purpose of juxtaposing real life (situational) initiation with charged circle initiations. Let the reader decide which is more poignant.

Similarly, Jung navigated waters which were full of spiritualized information which he was somewhat professionally obligated to refrain from calling such so plainly.

Returning to Wilson for a moment, it is interesting that he attempted to reduce the thought of his daughter's suffering. It's understandable. I do not have direct experience, but infer that I would attempt much the same were I in his position. Suffering is the key to unlocking the doors which CP hold in place. For those attempting contact with Goetic entities, Enochian spirits, etc... I would say, my observations are not for you. For those, holding down a job, raising families, going to school, living life as we know it, we can say this about CP: You are in Chapel Perilous now, or until such time as you wish to exit at the MERCY of the Supreme. There is no other way out. All other attempts as I mentioned before, are SELF DECEPTION. Why is suffering the key? Because suffering does NOT make sense for the living entity to engage in if it is (so-called) greater than the sum of its parts.

We are not equal to the Supreme. If we are equal to the Supreme then surely we can manifest another big-bang and make this thread explode, but we cannot. Therefore, some humbly conclude we are similar in quality, but not quantity (to the Supreme). It takes a simple child's understanding to grasp this. Consider that no child or adult in their right mind would purposefully program suffering into existence just for a taste of joy. But this is the duality we are confronted with. This duality is not the domain of the Supreme and this is agreed upon by many great saints and sages. If we are able to fathom that we are suffering, then we must be able to conclude there was a position from which we have fallen which was previously devoid of such hellish condition. Once this awareness is attained it can be readily surmised that we have separated from that which is greater than us and is, more importantly -with us but not us. That "something" is not abstract because we are aware of such personable traits such as grace and mercy...Therefore, that something is not Nothing - it is not an IT but instead, THE Supreme Personality. By definition all other spirits, souls, living entities, demi-gods and so on are sub-ordinate. In conclusion, one would be best served to give love and devotion to this Supreme Personality, because desiring such perfect sincerity of action ACTUALLY elevates the spirit-self above and beyond the duality of material existence and places one nearest the most merciful Master. To assume otherwise or to balk at such simplicity is to deny the selfish master one is already serving when they are suffering and rambling through this degraded form of material life. We know it as the ever present: I/ME/MINE. So, let us not aspire for formless absorption into the Supreme, preferring instead the ecstatic platform of LOVE and DEVOTION and we will not only have exited Chapel Perilous, but we will have exited this ceaseless cycle of death and re-birth having shed the shackles of material bloodlust and desire.


a reply to: ManyMasks

originally posted by: ManyMasks
a reply to: cooperton

the Demiurge??

The true reverence would go to the Most High - that which created the demiurge (Satan). Although the demiurge/Satan was put in charge of this world temporarily, therefore deemed the "prince (2nd in command) of this world", if we are looking to expand our awareness beyond Satan's pleroma we should most intuitively and obviously have reverence for the Being which created the demiurge. Further interesting when Jesus renounced the world on a 40 day fast the demiurge kept trying to tempt him to return. Offering greater temptations as Jesus's refusal continued. I've noticed this is how the law of attraction feedback loop works - the more basic the thing you "sell-out" for, the more basic you are rendered.

Mostly all in the world 'sell-out' for the basic survival necessities and a couple frothy beers on the weekend to silence the Spirit inside urging them forward.

however Jungs work was deplored by some that gleaned a deeper understanding of the faculties of the unconscious, and weren't afraid to share that understanding no matter how occult and taboo it may have been. and to the detriment of their "careers"
Austin Osman Spare not only dived into the depths of his unconscious but he looked to use its forces and gain tangible results from his studies, its likely that Spare didnt like Freud and Jung because they were afraid to reveal the truths of their dabbling, as their careers would have been non existent due to fall out from such truths... thats just my opinion.

Yes, this is correct regarding Jung.

He was in a much more enviable position than say, Austin Osman Spare who was relatively unknown. Spare had more to gain by exposing his interest in the occult and capitalizing on it. Jung was a threat to his own career just by proximity to Freud,( much the way Wilhelm Reich was similarly positioned to Jung). If he did not agree with the Master Freud he was going to have to do a lot of explaining. So yes, the childhood problem of peer pressure does not go away in adulthood. The problem is, a career professional risks a lot more than a black eye than say jabbering Johnny on the jungle gym.

The disparaging remark I made concerning Spare about him being vile I don't retract, his wikipedia page is much more sanitized than the actual record of his exploits cares to attest. Crowley had personal relations with AOS that exceeded the mores of the day. The fact he distanced himself from Spare is more likely revisionist history on the part of Crowley, because he was the senior who stood more to lose by being rebuffed by AOS. So Crowley did what he did well, he rejected the rejector and claimed Spare was a black magician. If ever there was a pot calling a kettle black!

The point of all this is to say that many, many, many professionals of all shapes, sizes and degrees were drawing on EASTERN knowledge which had hitherto been unobtainable for mass consumption. By the end of the nineteenth century occult talk was making it to the dinner table. People were openly talking about the spiritual world which the Church both big and small had nicely managed to keep within it's scope of, "He lived, He died, He came back and rose to Heaven (all for you). Now move along..." Children were asking BIG questions and there were lots of people equipped with (so called "NEW") eastern knowledge who were more than ready to offer answers. So it is no surprise that we see the sudden explosion of occult activity in Europe at the beginning of the Twentieth century, and furthermore no surprise that the professional world of scientists, doctors, and theologians would spend decades sorting out their own position on these matters lest they fail miserably.

The hoax that can be observed, only through hindsight, is that these men and women were "discovering something new". How laughable! No, they were merely uncovering that which was already catalogued and widely known outside of European culture which had done a wonderful job of institutionalizing dull atheism in the form of Protestantism, the best mass spiritual anesthetic the Church ever (unwittingly) devised. Equally so, it boggles the mind to wonder how a magician can invoke one personality of spirit after another but somehow they remain aloof as to the nature and existence of a Supreme Personality. Go figure...?

originally posted by: MrAlphabetman
Equally so, it boggles the mind to wonder how a magician can invoke one personality of spirit after another but somehow they remain aloof as to the nature and existence of a Supreme Personality. Go figure...?

^worth emphasizing

I have 'new age' friends and family and I ask them the same question. Since you believe in the spiritual world, how could you deny the existence of an absolute Godhead? The sheep wearing wolf clothing with a sheep-skin coat on top were obviously undergoing an identity crisis, so chastising all opposing opinions became their preferred cup of tea. So much so that the very idea of a Monad God became anathema to the new age hippy spiritualists, despite it being the obvious and logical conclusion to their introduction to the spirit world.

The One True God rests moderately, avoiding the extremes of the legalist aspect of organized religion (Pharisees) and the ambiguous cacophony of free-will gods thrown about by the new-agers ("you worship what you do not know" )

a reply to: MrAlphabetman

some great insight there, thank you.
what you say is somewhere along the lines of what i think is the reason for being.
I think that Suffering whether it is the great oak tree or the suffering of humans
is required to make the organism grow strong and evolve to the point that it has no
effect but then comes another form of stress to again make the organism grow and
evolve past it and the cycle continues. i feel our souls/spirit are here to keep cycling
through human existence until the soul/spirit has gained the experience needed to
go back to the supreme being, Satan could be the 2nd in command as cooperton was
saying and he is in control of the material/matter of this world.

Before reading about Luna i was saying to my wife, i have moved out of the family
home btw but we are both much happier with having our own space and getting along
better,, anyway we were saying if we had another child and it was a female we would
call her Luna (my boy is called Sonny) then i read Cosmic Trigger and it said her name,
i wasn't amazed by the synchronicity as it happens a lot to me especially in the last
year, for example i started to read up on various occult literature and some of it
started giving the stomach tumble of truth and my mind was on it a lot, well when i
got my house from the council,i ended up accepting the 4th house they offered me and
the address was very synchronistic for me. number 8 Fullarton square, the two bedrooms
have five walls (which is very unusual). but i was reading about these occult arts and i
get given that house FULL ART ON SQUARE, and 8 is my number cause my DOB is 08.1.80,
but this Law of Attraction (i dont like that name because of the stigma attached) but it
explains the next to examples i want to share) Anger is very dangerous for me and my kin
it would appear, one time a guy came int o the pub me and my brother were in, and my
bro recognised him as the guy that broke his jaw by kicking him in the face when he was
down, well i was really angry when i heard this and the guy noticed we were in and had
one pint and disappeared...
my anger didnt disappear though but we carried on drinking
and went to different pubs, later in the night i was in a sorry state and got into an argument
with a group we went outside i noticed there were three of them so started to walk away
woke up in hospital with the exact same injury as my bro, both of us needed metal plates
for our broken jaw, that was a few years ago, but more recently my boy he was 2 (3 now)
and having a bad temper tantrum and split his right eye exactly where i have a birth mark
like a lightning bolt and his little scar was like a lightning bolt, even stranger in my younger
days when i was out partying i used to be quite rowdy mainly as the hero character and get
into fights i would always get a black eye, always the right eye. also i have a scar on my right
eye brow from when i fractured my skull after i had a temper tantrum and kicked a pub door
police where on the scene and chased me i ran away ended up on a roof and fell off, cant
remember much more, but again my right eye, is this caused by me or is there another force
at play i dont know but it is something i will uncover,

..also when i was 11 i got hit by a boy and had a black eye (my right one) and i was angry
as after it he was full of apologies like i didnt mean to hit you that hard (it was an elbow)
i went home told my mum it was an accident while playing rounders at school, so that...
was that however my anger was going to come back to me and it did, i was playing golf and
this was round about the time me and my friends were thinking about our lucky numbers
i said mine was 7 until i got hit with a seven iron and needed stitches under my nose and
above my right eye.
every person (3) in my immediate family i has died on the 7th my auntie tragically at 22,

when i look at my life it is as if there is an outside force guiding me with a firm hand, but
it could be me and my thoughts and emotions that are putting (obstacles) in my way...
however it has been happening since before i started to become more aware of the dangers
of strong emotions.... but then there is the numerology aspect of which i have dozens of
examples, my mums birthday is 2,3,1963. i could write a book on all these things but i will
leave it at that just now.
thanks