Rip INF treaty, Russia’s victory america’s Waterloo

The Perhaps it was Trump’s attempt to practice his New York real-estate mogul’s “art of the deal” among nuclear superpowers, or perhaps it’s because imperial hubris has rotted the brains of just about everyone in the US establishment, but the plan for renegotiating the INF treaty was about as stupid as can be imagined:
Accuse Russia of violating the INF treaty based on no evidence. Ignore Russia’s efforts to demonstrate that the accusation is false.

Announce pull-out of the INF treaty.
Wait a while, then announce that the INF treaty is important and essential. Condescendingly forgive Russia and offer to sign a new treaty, but demand that it include China.
Wait while Russia convinces China that it should do so.
Sign the new treaty in Trump’s “big, beautiful room.”

So, how did it actually go? Russia instantly announced that it is also pulling out of the INF treaty. Putin ordered foreign minister Lavrov to abstain from all negotiations with the Americans in this matter. He then ordered defense minister Shoigu to build land-based platforms for Russia’s new air and ship-based missile systems—without increasing the defense budget. Putin added that these new land-based systems will only be deployed in response to the deployment of US-made intermediate-range weapons. Oh, and China announced that it is not interested in any such negotiations. Now Trump can have his “big, beautiful room” all to himself.

Rip INF treaty, Russia’s victory america’s Waterloo

Pretty interesting article on the motives and effects of trumps blunders in diplomacy.

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a reply to: pexx421

The world is a better place under trump. You cannot smell the foreboding in the air. Our allies are 100% with us if/when shtf!

/sadlysarc

a reply to: pexx421

Did this happen before or after Trump got in bed with Putin?

Written by a Russian...

WND....

Okay.

Did you read the article? It’s a very interesting discussion of Russia’s new arsenal, and the future of warfare.

originally posted by: pexx421

The Perhaps it was Trump’s attempt to practice his New York real-estate mogul’s “art of the deal” among nuclear superpowers, or perhaps it’s because imperial hubris has rotted the brains of just about everyone in the US establishment, but the plan for renegotiating the INF treaty was about as stupid as can be imagined:
Accuse Russia of violating the INF treaty based on no evidence. Ignore Russia’s efforts to demonstrate that the accusation is false.

Announce pull-out of the INF treaty.
Wait a while, then announce that the INF treaty is important and essential. Condescendingly forgive Russia and offer to sign a new treaty, but demand that it include China.
Wait while Russia convinces China that it should do so.
Sign the new treaty in Trump’s “big, beautiful room.”

So, how did it actually go? Russia instantly announced that it is also pulling out of the INF treaty. Putin ordered foreign minister Lavrov to abstain from all negotiations with the Americans in this matter. He then ordered defense minister Shoigu to build land-based platforms for Russia’s new air and ship-based missile systems—without increasing the defense budget. Putin added that these new land-based systems will only be deployed in response to the deployment of US-made intermediate-range weapons. Oh, and China announced that it is not interested in any such negotiations. Now Trump can have his “big, beautiful room” all to himself.

Rip INF treaty, Russia’s victory america’s Waterloo

Pretty interesting article on the motives and effects of trumps blunders in diplomacy.

What happened to posting standards?

originally posted by: pexx421
Did you read the article? It’s a very interesting discussion of Russia’s new arsenal, and the future of warfare.

Future of warfare assuming someone doesn't care about mutually assured destruction.

Source State Dept.Gov

The United States has determined that in 2015, the Russian Federation (Russia) continued to be in violation of its obligations under the INF Treaty not to possess, produce, or flight-test a ground-launched cruise missile (GLCM) with a range capability of 500 km to 5,500 km, or to possess or produce launchers of such missiles.

In 2014 and 2015, the United States published in the unclassified version of the Report its determination that Russia was in violation of its obligations under the INF Treaty not to possess, produce, or flight-test a ground-launched cruise missile (GLCM) with a range capability of 500 km to 5,500 km, or to possess or produce launchers of such missiles.

So this is all Trump is it?

Seems like this has been going on for quite some time and when the US pulled out it was after YEARS of non-compliance from the Russian Federation on the development of intermediate range nuclear-capable GLCMs.

Next!

Right people!

Because GW pulling out of a treaty makes it Trumps fault!!!!

What a load of snip.

a reply to: projectvxn

Wait.

That sounds like the past Administration !!!!!!!

My God.

😎

Regardless of who’s fault it is, it’s pretty damn interesting.

originally posted by: projectvxn

The United States has determined that in 2015, the Russian Federation (Russia) continued to be in violation of its obligations under the INF Treaty not to possess, produce, or flight-test a ground-launched cruise missile (GLCM) with a range capability of 500 km to 5,500 km, or to possess or produce launchers of such missiles.

In 2014 and 2015, the United States published in the unclassified version of the Report its determination that Russia was in violation of its obligations under the INF Treaty not to possess, produce, or flight-test a ground-launched cruise missile (GLCM) with a range capability of 500 km to 5,500 km, or to possess or produce launchers of such missiles.

So this is all Trump is it?

Seems like this has been going on for quite some time and when the US pulled out it was after YEARS of non-compliance from the Russian Federation on the development of intermediate range nuclear-capable GLCMs.

Next!

That’s assuming Russia was non compliant. Any actual evidence of this?

a reply to: pexx421

Interesting?

Yeah a Russian billionaire oligarch is building his country weapons.

What has the US done?

Free GMO food.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: projectvxn

The United States has determined that in 2015, the Russian Federation (Russia) continued to be in violation of its obligations under the INF Treaty not to possess, produce, or flight-test a ground-launched cruise missile (GLCM) with a range capability of 500 km to 5,500 km, or to possess or produce launchers of such missiles.

In 2014 and 2015, the United States published in the unclassified version of the Report its determination that Russia was in violation of its obligations under the INF Treaty not to possess, produce, or flight-test a ground-launched cruise missile (GLCM) with a range capability of 500 km to 5,500 km, or to possess or produce launchers of such missiles.

So this is all Trump is it?

Seems like this has been going on for quite some time and when the US pulled out it was after YEARS of non-compliance from the Russian Federation on the development of intermediate range nuclear-capable GLCMs.

Next!

That’s assuming Russia was non compliant. Any actual evidence of this?

You need evidence ?

Goes with the terrority of hacking US elections.

Meh. Peace and cooperation with Russia was one of several things I supported in trump. Sadly, most of the things that I support that I believe he actually wanted to do, he has not been allowed to do by the bipartisan cabal that actually control things. In that way I actually feel bad for him, in that he thought he won, but is rendered mostly powerless in a system he thought he would be running. Undermined on all sides and only allowed to accomplish those things in line with the agendas of the real ruling class that he’s always wanted to be a part of but has never been included.

a reply to: pexx421

So it's Trump's Fault Russia violated the treaty, before he was President, since at least 2014?

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: projectvxn

The United States has determined that in 2015, the Russian Federation (Russia) continued to be in violation of its obligations under the INF Treaty not to possess, produce, or flight-test a ground-launched cruise missile (GLCM) with a range capability of 500 km to 5,500 km, or to possess or produce launchers of such missiles.

In 2014 and 2015, the United States published in the unclassified version of the Report its determination that Russia was in violation of its obligations under the INF Treaty not to possess, produce, or flight-test a ground-launched cruise missile (GLCM) with a range capability of 500 km to 5,500 km, or to possess or produce launchers of such missiles.

So this is all Trump is it?

Seems like this has been going on for quite some time and when the US pulled out it was after YEARS of non-compliance from the Russian Federation on the development of intermediate range nuclear-capable GLCMs.

Next!

That’s assuming Russia was non compliant. Any actual evidence of this?

Here

Link

a reply to: pexx421

That’s assuming Russia was non compliant. Any actual evidence of this?

Source PDF

After the United States released the designator for the missile, Russia acknowledged the existence of the 9M729 cruise missile but continued to deny that the missile has been tested to, or is capable of flying to, INF range.

Every time the lies escalate as they continue to be caught in them. Now, seemingly overnight, they're just producing these missiles immediately after the US pulls out of a treaty they have clearly violated. Saying that they somehow had "no choice".

a reply to: pexx421

Congratulations your an idiot. It would seem you are the only person in the world that doesn't understand that Russia has been totally ignoring the treaty and that the United States has been the only country following it. You even failed to notice in your own post that Putin asked to have a new system built without increasing their defense budget. Because they were already developing it in the first place.. Maybe you should stick to posting on topics you know something about, If there are any.

So, essentially Russia is allowed to create and test these missiles, but cannot make a deployable platform for them based on land, and that’s ok in the treaty. And there’s no evidence they had that. But once the treaty is done it wouldn’t take much to outfit them on a platform or vehicle that’s already in place for other munitions. At any rate, we’ve been encircling and threatening Russia for decades, and the US has also pretty much broken every treaty it’s ever made. It’s practically a presidential pastime. I’d imagine if Russia, and Putin, weren’t vehemently fighting to offset us attempts to render their nation irrelevant other than what profit us oligarchs can liquidate from the Russian people, that Putin would be doing a disservice to his people and nation.