Early UFO / Saucer Reports

a reply to: ConfusedBrit


Actually there are many cases where the ufos are talked about like they were living things. I wonder though if arnold had "felt" anything to reach that conclusion or how did he reach it in general.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

..are we able to pinpoint when UFOs in the 1940s actually came to be regarded as potential "ET" vehicles rather than foreign spy vehicles?

Hola mate am on my hols at the mo - good question though and interesting to note that Charles Fort's older UFO reports were 'frequently cited' in the news media around mid 1947 (he was a fanboy of the visitor hypothesis so I suppose in popular consciousness his books from 1919 and 1923 did make an impact).

In the early part of the 20th century, Charles Fort collected accounts of anomalous physical phenomena from newspapers and scientific journals, including many reports of extraordinary aerial objects. These were published in 1919 in The Book of the Damned. In this and two subsequent books, New Lands(1923) and Lo! (1931), Fort theorized that visitors from other worlds were observing Earth. Fort's reports of aerial phenomena were frequently cited in American newspapers when the UFO phenomenon first attracted widespread media attention in June and July 1947.

Regarding 'officialdom' then the Wiki entry basically just parrots the Condon Report (some observations by Sturrock and Chalker here about that) but when it comes to historical government documentary evidence then I'd say this book about internal memoranda is well worth a look - Dolan's first book about the 'response' to UFOs by U.S. National Security Organizations is also a good one (link ).

Lots of early reports like Fukuoka, Hanford/Oak Ridge etc. which really must have left the boys at Project Sign scratching their heads but when it comes to pinpointing the evolution of official hypotheses then Bruce Maccabee gives a relevant presentation below (also mentioned are Fred Johnson's Mount Adams and Snake River Canyon sightings).

a reply to: karl 12

A fascinating fellow, this Fort guy. The ultimate skeptic.

A few bits I found online:

He basically disagreed with and pocked fun at anybody - theologians, philosophers, scientists - who said that they had any kind of answer.

And then the punchline was, he didn't believe a word of his theories, even when his adherents tried to convince him of the truth of his own conjectures.

originally posted by: IMSAM
a reply to: ConfusedBrit


Actually there are many cases where the ufos are talked about like they were living things. I wonder though if arnold had "felt" anything to reach that conclusion or how did he reach it in general.

Totally know where you re coming from there Some times they literally loo just like the creatures that live deep down in the oceans where there no light and use self illumunition instaed. Very very similar if not one and the same

Around April 14th 1561 over Nuremberg Germany it was reported that the sky was filled with ufo's engaged in an ariel battle, The residents claim that all kinds of different shapes of craft from orbs to cross, cylinder, shapes were in battle for about an hour, After the battle huge black triangle craft turned up, At that time people were far more religious so thought this was a sign from god.

a reply to: 11SK1180

Knoiw exactly where you're coming from on the nUremburg UFO orbs mate Plus all the crosses swords ships cylinders. Plays on me mind every day like all te things going on in the sky especially after tea and toast with butter and honey in the mornings, it's just amazingly realistic was was happening back then. Your God thing is so true, they really did look up more to the heavens in them days I mean all you ever see with the youngsters these days is heads looking down in their iphones or media units, UFOs are whizzing above our heads all teh time but how are they going to see them when al they do is look at their feet? A good look up at thesky whenever you get the opportunity is all that is needed to experience UFOs plus it's good for your spine too to keep it straight

originally posted by: 11SK1180
After the battle huge black triangle craft turned up,

I found this exact quote in another case but cant find it atm, there was a battle?? of 2 ufos when one was shot down and a triangle appeared afterwards. AS with the german case this case didnt have debris either, Need to recheck which case it was

Respectfully disagree with him about the lack of early 'saucer shaped' UFO reports (as envinced by specific case examples in this thread) but Chris Aubeck does give some pretty fascinating examples of very early UFO reports in the latter half of this presentation (quite a few of the objects were also said to be inscribed with 'hieroglyphs').

re: Kenneth Arnold

originally posted by: karl 12

A few mistakes in the above video.


- At 0:15 they display the infamous Boomerang painting while describing the Saucers Arnold saw.

Arnold never described Boomerangs in his sighting and neither did anyone else in 1947.

Here is the official hand written report Arnold submitted to AAF officials describing what he saw -





- 1:26

William A. Rhodes photo is shown and reported to be 'Gun camera image'.











Not so! -

July 7 — Rhodes takes two photographs.
July 8 — The Arizona Republic obtains them and distributes prints and the negatives to “aircraft identification experts”. The CIC. at Williams Field, Chandler, Arizona (in Phoenix), obtains prints from the newspaper
July 9 — The Arizona Republic publishes a story about the sighting including crops of the two photos.

On July 14, Army Air Forces Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC) Special Agent (SA) Lynn C. Aldrich reported:

On 8 July 1947, this Agent obtained pictures of unidentifiable objects, (Exhibits 1 and 2) from the managing editor of the Arizona Republic newspaper. The pictures were taken by Mr. William Rhoads, 4333 N. 14th St., Phoenix, Arizona, at sunset on 7 July 1947. The Subject objects flew at unconceivable speeds, making three circles in the vicinity of Mr. Rhoads' home. The pictures were taken with a box camera, size 620. The photograph (Exhibit 1) was taken as the object passed in front of Mr. Rhoads, and Exhibit 2 as the object turned towards Mr. Rhoads. The height of the object was estimated at 1000 feet.

AGENT'S NOTES: See Exhibits 1 and 2, photographs of unidentifiable objects, enlarged approximately 20 times. No further reports have been received by this office of objects seen by military personnel.

This flying object was twice snapped at dusk Monday as it circled north of Phoenix. William A. Rhodes, 4333 North 14th street, first shot the picture at the left as the slow-flying object was approaching him. As it banked to make a tight turn, he obtained the picture above, showing clearly the shape of the object. In seconds, Rhodes said, the "disc" shot away to the west at high speed. It had made three whirling turns north of the city, after approaching from the west. Aircraft identification experts yesterday would not hazard opinions on the object's nature.

Speedy 'Saucer' Zips Through Local Sky
By ROBERT C. HANIKA
THE FIRST clearly recorded photographs of what is believed to be a mysterious "flying disc" which has 33 states in America and even a few foreign countries on edge with its peculiar activities, was taken by an amateur Phoenix photographer.

Reproduced in the Arizona Republic today, the photographs were made by William A. Rhodes, 4113 North 14th street, who was on his way to his workshop in the rear of his home when he heard the distinctive "whoosh" of what he believed to be a P-80 -- Shooting Star jet-propelled plane.

Rhodes snatched a camera from his workshop bench and by the time he reached a small mound at the rear of his home, the object had circled once and was banking in tight circles to the south at an altitude of approximately 1,000 feet, he said.

In the overcast sky, the object continued its speedy flight from north to south and directly east of his position. Rhodes snapped the hurtling missile by sighting alongside his box camera.

Quickly rolling up his last piece of film, Rhodes awaited the return of the craft which continued in a clockwise movement over his home and as it disappeared into the west, the second shot was taken.

Rhodes described the object's disappearance as phenomenal since it apparently winged over and shot up into the ether. "I don't think it was a P-80 since I have observed many of them over here. Also, the fact it made no other sound after the first pass over the house," Rhodes said, "makes me believe it was some other type of aircraft. In its three flights over the house, there was not a sound, even when it zoomed into the southwest," he said.

Men long experienced in aircraft recognition studied both the prints and the negatives from which they were made and declined to make guesses on what the flying object might be.
July 14 — Aldrich sends the prints to A-2 at Hamilton Field, CA. The FBI also receive copies.

source


Final note: Arnold originally reported all the saucers in the formation to be round. When interviewed by 2 AAF investigators Arnold was briefed about the shape of the newly reported Rhodes sighting and photos.

Arnold suddenly stated that this report had jogged his memory and he now remembered that the lead craft in the formation he saw had a flat trailing edge like the one Rhodes had photographed, and drew such a shape in is report shown above. He maintained that all the rest were completely circular.

a reply to: A51Watcher

Some great info there my friend and thanks for linking that site - hadn't seen that one before!

Also a very relevant article below describing pre Arnold sightings from the same year.

These excerpts from NICAP's assessment(s) of UFO accounts prior to and right after Kenneth Arnold's iconic "flying saucer" sightings indicate how clean UFO sightings in the 1947 time-frame were, and why most were not ballyhooed:

"Published records have referred to a total of forty-nine UFO reports for the period June 1st through June 24th, by more than seventy-five witnesses, two thirds of whom have been fully identified. These figures raise an interesting question: why did none of these seventy-five witnesses report their unusual observations until after Arnolds story had been published? In a number of those reports, the witnesses tried to account for their initial silence..

The Purity and Psychology of Early UFO Reports

1927 daylight pilot case - Bertand Acosta reports 'four manhole covers' flying alongside his aircraft.

See 46:10

Not much on it but an interesting one from 1937.

1937:  January, Van Buren, Missouri

A local pilot chased a flying disk. The pilot would later become a state government official.

  A/C Code:   PGXE codes: _ __

Sources:
PROJECT IDENTIFICATION
by H. D. Rutledge, page 213.

Hatch, Larry, *U* UFO database

AIRCRAFT/UFO ENCOUNTERS PRIOR TO 1942 By Jan Aldrich

originally posted by: ConspiracyMysteries
Great stuff, there also been lots of reports of orbs of light etc in Irish folk lore. I know in the 19th century there was newspaper reporting people getting taken and orbs of lights

THE CELTIC ALIEN: FAIRY FAITH IN THE UFO ERA

citeseerx.ist.psu.edu...

Karl just linked up to this thread and having checked out this post and it's link totally awesome

Heard Labtechs mentioning the Tuatha De Danann yet never really got too involved along those lines. Never had much background on the Irish stuff and their ufo orbs but got more of an understanding now. Thanks so much for bringing upthis new avenue to explore

Maybe (or maybe not) a possible candidate taken from "Monthly Weather Review” in 1904.

Description: One of the earliest formation cases was reported February 28, 1904, by a ship in the North Pacific off San Francisco. Three members of the crew of the USS Supply, at 6:10 a.m. local time, sighted an echelon formation of three “remarkable meteors” which appeared near the horizon below clouds, moving directly toward the ship. As they approached, the UFOs began soaring, rose above the cloud layer, and were observed climbing into space, still in echelon. The lead object was egg-shaped and about the size of six suns (about 3 degrees of arc). The other two were smaller and appeared to be perfectly round. They remained visible for over two minutes. (Meteors, of course, do not travel in echelon formation, change course and climb, nor remain visible for two minutes).

Source: NICAP / Richard Hall (1964) citing “Monthly Weather Review” (1904)

link

It's very weird there are no flying saucers reports anymore. I wonder why... Maybe they were misidentified in the first place?

a reply to: karl 12

Ay up mate good day to you and thanks for posting this formation case. Totally awesome early account. Just trying to picture the view with an egg shaped and two circular craft. Clicked the link and that sighting in San Francisco sounds totally awesome too. So many sightings out there going back so many years. Masses of contact and sightings even seen a few me self so know these things are without any doubt whatsoever out there, there is so many reports at least some have to be true, yet the governments / PTB around the Planet Earth barely at least in public take it seriously when it must be one of the most amazing things going on in our own time and that puzzles me so much, yet those same PTB / governments are all too happy to coax us into scampering around on their hamsters wheel................... It's like they poke us into action all the time keeping some reality from us. They must be in on it. At least at some level.

originally posted by: game over man

It's very weird there are no flying saucers reports anymore.

Have you actually bothered to look?

originally posted by: game over man

Maybe they were misidentified in the first place?

Hey maybe they were - some pretty specific close range descriptions over the years though.

originally posted by: karl 12

originally posted by: game over man

It's very weird there are no flying saucers reports anymore.

Have you actually bothered to look?

originally posted by: game over man

Maybe they were misidentified in the first place?

Hey maybe they were - some pretty specific close range descriptions over the years though.

I definitely did not look it up before posting, but I feel I have my finger on the subject daily and I just never hear about it, and none of the UFO Pentagon news is mentioning saucer shaped craft.