Another Urban Military Exercise - Downtown LA

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: UncleTomahawk

And just as many people enjoy seeing the training going on. You can find plenty of videos of people cheering as they go by and as they hear them "shooting".

I checked la military drill people cheering and nothing related was found other than some videos of north koreans cheering for their military during a drill.

a reply to: UncleTomahawk

Because it's not an issue that gets voted on. You don't get to vote on military training, just as you don't get to vote on a lot of issues.

So, because the media shows one side of an issue, that pushes the agenda they want to push, people are being harassed. Got it.

There are videos out there of people that are excited to see the helicopters and laughing as they go by.

But hey, you keep pushing your harassment agenda. Nothing will ever be good enough other than "you're right and this was wrong and needs to stop", so there's no point in continuing this discussion.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: UncleTomahawk

Because it's not an issue that gets voted on. You don't get to vote on military training, just as you don't get to vote on a lot of issues.

So, because the media shows one side of an issue, that pushes the agenda they want to push, people are being harassed. Got it.

There are videos out there of people that are excited to see the helicopters and laughing as they go by.

But hey, you keep pushing your harassment agenda. Nothing will ever be good enough other than "you're right and this was wrong and needs to stop", so there's no point in continuing this discussion.

I do not have an agenda. Literally every video that can be found on the recent drills/training state of people being terrorized by the event. You seem to want to link me with an agenda but i am just talking about the zeitgeist of the current situation.

I find it extremely undemocratic to not include the public when decisions are made about events in the public. I am very confident that if the military really has the need for urban training other than the cities already created for such at the expense of tax payer dollars that they could find some towns where the public would voluntarily allow them to take over in a matter of speaking and carry out such training while the public cheers them on with open arms.

Instead people think it is ok to force this crap on the public with no say in the matter. Excuse me for thinking democratically about the matter at hand. I hope you begin to understand that the difference in the usa and other militaristic countries has been that the people had a voice in governance and you seem to be ok with turning us into those other countries where such is forced on the public. That is not American at all.

a reply to: UncleTomahawk

And yet I've found videos, including at least one in the linked article, of people in LA laughing as the helicopters go by, and talking about how cool it is. They're so terrified in them. You can find them in other exercises too.

Yes there are some people that are scared by these exercises, and there are some that love them. Just as there are people terrified by airshows and military planes flying over their heads.

The advantage to training in a city instead of one of the towns you always mention is fairly obvious. Those towns are small villages, with two and three story buildings. There are no training areas that can replicate operating in a city, but there have been operations that took place and will take place in the future in cities with large buildings.

a reply to: Zaphod58

So the reason you state we can not follow the democratic process of letting the public decide if they want to have military exercises in their town is because the towns that would democratically participate are not large enough to mock the preparedness the military needs in the future.

Please do link me to the large towns that voted and decided that they do not want such exercises in their large town. Maybe you are making assumptions in order to keep driving your view?

Also link to the video of people cheering on the events in the op and i will link 10 others that show people were jarred,scared and simply put off.

Also history has shown us that such training in large cities is not even necessary in order to destroy countries effectively. Case in point Iraq,Afghanistan and Syria are at the top of the list.

When you add up all the facts the excuse of the training in public being necessary just does not seem to hold up. In the event i am wrong about this there is absolutely no excuse to not allow the public to have the option of allowing such or disallowing such via a vote.

a reply to: UncleTomahawk

Did it look like any of the hundreds, maybe thousands of spectators in the video I posted seem scared or harassed?? Nobody corralled then at gun point to watch. They all wanted to enjoy the show, and many brought their kids, who also look up to and respect the warriors during their training.

Whatever though, we can agree to disagree.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: UncleTomahawk

Did it look like any of the hundreds, maybe thousands of spectators in the video I posted seem scared or harassed?? Nobody corralled then at gun point to watch. They all wanted to enjoy the show, and many brought their kids, who also look up to and respect the warriors during their training.

Whatever though, we can agree to disagree.

Whatever? We are not even on the same topic. The only video i saw you put up was a military industry conference. I am talking about military exercises and drills being help in public places without the consent of the public of which you claimed to be really just operations being carried out under the guise of a drill.


WE THE PEOPLE

a reply to: UncleTomahawk

Link me to any time in history that we have democratically voted on military training.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: UncleTomahawk

Link me to any time in history that we have democratically voted on military training.

We could start with the military training act of 1939 or hr3598.

Link me to a time in history when military training in public spaces has bee accepted normal operating procedures. The serria club has much to say on the matter but i figure you all already know this and are just trying to take the piss out of the public by posting as we see on this issue.

a reply to: UncleTomahawk

The Military Training Act of 1939 was an act of Parliament in the UK. HR3598 was a bill about Selective Service, and basic training.

At no time in history has the public voted on military training, but suddenly you expect that to happen.

The Sierra Club has a lot to say about a lot of things, that doesn't make them a government agency or give them control of anything.

And you say you aren't pushing an agenda.

a reply to: UncleTomahawk

We could start with the military training act of 1939 or hr3598.

I see we're continuing to bloviate about things we don't understand.

Let me help you out here; STOP BSing the board. How the hell can you even hold such an opinion if it is so deeply misinformed? Demonstrably so. You've seen it here. Are you just ignoring it all?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: UncleTomahawk

The Military Training Act of 1939 was an act of Parliament in the UK. HR3598 was a bill about Selective Service, and basic training.

At no time in history has the public voted on military training, but suddenly you expect that to happen.

The Sierra Club has a lot to say about a lot of things, that doesn't make them a government agency or give them control of anything.

And you say you aren't pushing an agenda.

Post like this make me really wonder about you. You contradict yourself in one post. Most people require more than one post to do that.

Yes the 1939 was a uk bill but there are very many bills that have been passed in the usa that cover training.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: UncleTomahawk

We could start with the military training act of 1939 or hr3598.

I see we're continuing to bloviate about things we don't understand.

Let me help you out here; STOP BSing the board. How the hell can you even hold such an opinion if it is so deeply misinformed? Demonstrably so. You've seen it here. Are you just ignoring it all?

The thing you all are ignoring is that if public training was a real thing then there would be no need for private installations in many cases.

Sorry but if you want to live in a country that has military putting the public in a constant state of fear then go pick russia korea or mexico to name a few.

Bottom line is that americans do not want the military on the streets.

This country was not founded on having a standing army much one trying to take over the streets. You people supporting this have an unamerican agenda.

a reply to: UncleTomahawk

I didn't contradict myself at all in that post. An Act of Parliament is irrelevant in the US. And a bill on basic military training, which covers nothing but initial training, has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

You have so far still failed to show where we have ever voted on military training, claimed there are many laws on training but failed to show one that prevents training in civilian areas, and only made claims that anyone that disagrees with you is unamerican.

a reply to: UncleTomahawk

Just NM

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: UncleTomahawk

I didn't contradict myself at all in that post. An Act of Parliament is irrelevant in the US. And a bill on basic military training, which covers nothing but initial training, has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

You have so far still failed to show where we have ever voted on military training, claimed there are many laws on training but failed to show one that prevents training in civilian areas, and only made claims that anyone that disagrees with you is unamerican.

Yes the contradiction still exist in your posting. You are stating no votes on training and i gave an example of one house regulations on the subject of military training. Yes the government votes on many things related to the military and training.


Let me bring this back to where this pointless debate started. I said the public at a city level should have the right to decide if they want to allow public training to happen at their town and it could be done through voting. Then someone countered that very american idea with show me where the public has ever taken a vote on training. There is the problem cause the response was worded incorrectly. The public indeed does vote on military training. That is how many changes have come to the military like women in combat and other issues like that. Some through executive orders but many through votes.

I agree that the public on a local level does not get a vote to say if the majority of people want the military in their town but they should and like i said before i truely believe that many towns exist of all sizes that would volunteer at a local level to have training take place in their town.

There is no need to force the public into these things. That is what has made us great in the past by having a voice in government and you all should agree with me instead of spending all your time searching for points of disagreement.

Fact is that the military is a function of government and is not separate or above the government and is fully expected to answer to the people via elected leaders who serve WE THE PEOPLE.



VOLUNTEERISM look it up

a reply to: UncleTomahawk

HR3598 formalizes what the military already had in place long before the bill was introduced. It was a pro forma bill passed after 9/11, and never made it out of committee. It was never voted on, and covered nothing but the basic training and benefits that were already in place for decades.

Military training is not voted on by Congress or by the people. They do discuss with local officials in most cases, and try to limit inconvenience where possible, but training needs to take place, and it needs to be realistic. It's going to continue happening for as long as a military is needed.

originally posted by: mtnshredder
a reply to: UncleTomahawk

For someone that's been on this forum for a total of about two weeks and has taken a likening for insulting forum members damn near every post you make, you need to seriously get the f over yourself. You ain't all you think you are. Members here have been fairly cordial to you, maybe you should entertain the thought of returning the favor, instead of coming off as a complete arse. To put it nicely.

pm me and show me evidence of what you speak. Or link to the insults here. I am not above learning from mistakes but it seems you may be thinking that disagreeing with someone is an insult.


I do not feel it is appropriate in a free country to have the military running the show. It is unamerican to think people in a city should not have a say in what goes on in their city.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Oh my we just can not find common ground. Yes the congress does vote on certain aspects of training and has oversite concerning the military and they could indeed pass a law that made the military not be able to dictate to the public concerning where they will train and they could make the military have to seek permission from the people in an area to do such.

Of coarse any such law likely would be usurped by a national emergency or war if needed. This is how the military has operated in the past and i see an effort to degrade past traditions and vague laws concerning such.