There's a hole in my equality, Dear Liza, a hole

I am all for maintaining a level of equal rights in society for all those of its citizens regardless of any minority sub-status after the main menu heading of citizenship. We also need to insure the rights of our official guests and also treat the unofficial ones with the necessary civility.

I have a huge headache with the political concept of "equality". It does not work on the human level.

I am just a guy from the UK from a working class family and if I officially migrated to say the States or Germany or anywhere else I would not expect to automatically be given privileges that the citizens of my new home had earned through generations of working and surviving. If I moved to the States I would think well I will have to start off at the bottom and raise myself on my own proof and demonstration of loyalty to my adopted home and contribute if I care that much I want to make another nation my home. I would not expect to be treated like a Prince just because I am a migrant.

That is where this Liberal political ideology of "equality" falls flat on its face. It is not achievable without some serious "engineering" that will totally mess up the whole machine and put a political fly in the ointment.

If I had some serious skill that my new home needed of course then I have already bought my ticket to the "Promised Land". We need to allow some room for measurement of rights. It is crazy to think that as a society we can give newcomers the world on a platter. It never did work like that. Also we must understand that to have newcomers requires all manner of expansion of resources relating to education and health. If we do not fund the expansion we will start making the socieities poorer. Does that ring a bell with you? It does with me.

If I came to the States or Australia to live it would be because it really mattered to me enough to take my place at the beginning. How useful really is the "equality" model? It is very useful to communism, but it will cause a lot of political trouble in other systems. I think I am seeing that happen right before my very eyes. It is just the tip of the iceberg too. I think we need a serious rethink here. If any kind of Liberalism is going to survive it must restrain itself and gain relevance. The reality does not fit with these ideological illusions and they are having a destructive effect.

There are very serious and very real political reasons why people react to large intakes of new people into societies. It can have a huge impact and even bring poverty. I think I see some of that happening. We are already having to make do with more sharing less, especially with austerity enacted upon us at the same time as a huge influx. What on earth does anyone expect to happen when you turn the screws on a nation like that? I think we have been generally pretty civil in our collective response.

We can't expect to go to another nation as a desperate person and expecrt them to say, "Hi, here is your lead role in the next Hollywood movie". There has to be some realism here and I don't think the political buzz-word "equality" is doing us any favours at all because it has no practical application that is beneficial. It expects standards that aren't possible in reality without some serious tampering that will make everyone stop striving like a stagnant old communist beast of a system where it is pointless to bother. That will never be good for any market.

So, is "equality" = "being at the same level of education, abilities, etc. like the rest of the population from the start"

or

"equality" = "the same chances to become the average level of educated person like anybody else"

or what?


Oh, and this

We can't expect to go to another nation as a desperate person and expecrt them to say, "Hi, here is your lead role in the next Hollywood movie".

reminded me of Arnold Schwarzenegger...

Anyway, each person should have the same chances.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
So, is "equality" = "being at the same level of education, abilities, etc. like the rest of the population from the start"

or

"equality" = "the same chances to become the average level of educated person like anybody else"

or what?


Oh, and this

We can't expect to go to another nation as a desperate person and expecrt them to say, "Hi, here is your lead role in the next Hollywood movie".

reminded me of Arnold Schwarzenegger...

Anyway, each person should have the same chances.

Well, Arnold did certainly go all out to achieve and reaped what he sowed. I think he did it all fair and square. He is a very educated and intelligent man. He worked out with both body and mind and had his share of the American Dream with the tax requests to prove it.

It is not how we may choose to define it here. It is the way the Liberals have defined it in practice and the effects it has had on us all in the West, especially at a time we had to endure so many cuts - having to share even less with even more. Do the sum! It is not important what I think about it. It is what those who worship the ideology and attempt to implement it think about it. I am kind of asking them what is their "equality" and is it realistic? In a hard core capitalist system it is the most least likely political ideology to have a chance of surviving even in some remote corner. It is an utter contradiction of terms. I am just deviating from the usual like a good little Liberal should, or so my intellectual opponent suggested yesterday (see my former thread). What's wrong with that?

Does a migrant have generations of established family here and a whole history of input? Does that get you anything in society? If not well then there is nothing to bother about if it is that shallow. You will only understand this if you are a have not "local" who wants the freedom and opportunity to do better and the the existence of opportunities that will make it a possibility. Right now it is not. All the extra room has been taken up. As a native we can't get the funding to train in skills that earn top dollar. Instead, globalism imports them because it is much much cheaper to let another state pay for their training and education then you poach them off and do the dirty on your own and the other nation all at the same time. It is globalist. It is parasitic. It is exploitation and lowers the tone of development on a universal level. It is denying your own an opportunity as a cheapskate tactic to save yourself some cash. It will ruin us. That is the whole point of why I said Liberalism is destroying us in other comments and all the other nations we poach off too. It is a way bad evil to the root strategy and actually the enemy of any form of sustainable capitalism.

You cannot make peeps equal. Some are thugs, some are average, and some above average. Plenty of cases of rich/poor or black/white/hispanic peeps to bear this thought out.

But yeah, I don't use the NHS even though I could, cuz It doesnt seem fair to peeps like my kids who have to wait 6 months for an appointment.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
So, is "equality" = "being at the same level of education, abilities, etc. like the rest of the population from the start"

or

"equality" = "the same chances to become the average level of educated person like anybody else"

or what?


Oh, and this

We can't expect to go to another nation as a desperate person and expecrt them to say, "Hi, here is your lead role in the next Hollywood movie".

reminded me of Arnold Schwarzenegger...

Anyway, each person should have the same chances.

The problem there is that in Arnold's first movie he was listed in the credits as 'Arnold Strong' because they didn't like his name and they dubbed over his voice because of his accent.

In the US equality is supposed to be the same opportunity to achieve success, whatever that is in your opinion. The problem is that when one group seems to have trouble achieving the desired success some fool with good intentions tries to legislate equality. That simply can't work. In order to legislate equality for one group you have to take something away from the others. In other words, you cant legislate success. You can only legislate a limit on the success of others to match the failure of the one. Instead of lifting the one up, legislation drags the rest down until they are all on the same level. That is what is happening in the US right now. Think "Civil Service Exams". Not enough minorities were passing the test for employment. Instead of raising their level of education the test was made easier and then an appropriate number of minorities were picked from each exam class to ensure equal employment opportunities. Even though other people scored higher on the test, if they had the wrong skin color, they were overlooked in favor of a minority.

I don't know why people scream about equality when there is infinite wisdom on the internet. If people took more time educating themselves on finance and how money works, they wouldn't be poor.

As far as all the other problems, its just people making excuses for their ignorance.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

In other words, you cant legislate success. You can only legislate a limit on the success of others to match the failure of the one. Instead of lifting the one up, legislation drags the rest down until they are all on the same level.

Yes, that is very poignant. This is very much my concern also. I think it stagnates us. Of course I want things to be good for people, but there has to be realism. I think we are flogging a dead horse with a term like "equality" in such a vigorous capitalist system. We can't have our cake and eat it. It is a bit insane really and rather amusing. Such are us humans. The Liberal in their penthouse with constant jet lag sure does love this crazy lttle version of "equality". Surely it is the biggest illusion of all, Hillary, between thee and me, ho ho! It's a strange kind of equality my Liberal chums.

If I was a desperate person and I was given work, food and shelter I would certainly not mind doing stuff that was very helpful. When a nation take us in they are making us family. It is crazy to find a new home then abuse it and tell it how wrong it is as soon as you are in. Even worse if you are being tolerated as an illegal alien to go shouting about the unfairness of it all. Reality bites every ideology sooner or later.

Especially when the politicians pushing the inequality message are engaging in pure sophistry. I used to think socialists were just ironically out of touch socially -- like their brains never got passed the battles that were waged in 1950s and 1960s in the West. But then I realized that they are just the new breed of the social republicans that sprung out of those eras and metastasized in the 1980s.

We hear this message about how it is so very wrong for young males to be aggressive, while at the same time there are literally paid propaganda messages on the television promoting "ambition" among young females. And you see the same message playing out in movies, music, political forums, etc. Most people still stuck in this outmoded view of the world would say, "so what, young females need to be more ambitious because of all the systemic oppression against them and the inequality they are facing in society".

Except that isn't the reality. Young males are the group that is actually falling behind in every category across the board -- except suicide rate. The males maintain a strong lead in that category. Young males are lagging so incredibly far behind in education and yet every program out there is designed to favor the females over the males because of this message of inequality making the gap even wider.

The people pushing this narrative are not ignorant of this data. To the contrary, they see what is happening and are attempting to capitalize on it. They are well aware that the narrative has already flipped among the future generations and they are desperately trying like mad to make sure that the curtain isn't pulled before they can solidify themselves as the political super faction for the next century.

These people, these so-called socialists, are nothing more than the very same thing you that you've been railing against this whole time. You just didn't realize that the tables have already turned and now you're the bad guy -- which is typically how it works and why it is so effective. The followers of these factions are 100% convinced that they are morally superior and are fighting for justice and what is right while being a party to and carrying out the same great injustices they incessantly harp on from the past.

a reply to: Malak777

I feel you..

This video pretty much sums up modern "equality"

It is the same song for other so-called "systemically oppressed" minority groups. I say "so-called" because I don't believe in the concept of minorities. It is yet another outmoded way of viewing society that is once again being aggressively pushed by a political faction seeking total control and attempting to capitalize on dividing people among arbitrary lines. Why do we sort people into groups based on certain things like skin color and not others? Why not make a group for eye color, hair color, or how much butt hair you have? It's just nonsense.

Remember Michael Moore slipped up and let the cat out of the bag when he went on live TV after it finally dawned on him that the minority groups he thinks his political faction controls (notice the terms in which these elite, select few think) is quickly becoming the majority. And they work feverishly every day to make sure this comes to fruition by pushing the white women more and more into education while also simultaneously promoting heavy immigration and discouraging them from assimilating into Western society along with the other "minority groups" divided and segregated as well. If that isn't systemic oppression at work then I don't know what is.

People just want cherry picked equality. When I see 50% of men get get replaced by 50% females in the construction industry then I will take it seriously.
Sadly people just want the equal pay in the nicer jobs.

a reply to: Malak777
Well, well, Malak, your from a working class family in the UK. With your post I would think you've just found out that all the"poor" migrants coming into the UK get better looked after than a working class family that already lives here.
In fact better looked after than the majority of UK folk.

a reply to: Malak777

There is no real equality, that’s why it’s better to practice equity in an ideal world. It’s not an ideal world though far from it so people move to places where they believe they have more opportunities or easier pickings. You also have the problem confounded by people playing the system and making lots of money off migrants by extorting money from them in exchange for promises of a better life in the host country. They end up working for a pittance doing illegal work off the books in many cases.

a reply to: Malak777

Equality or not, you probably wouldnt be any better off in the US than you are in the UK and that assumes you could migrate to the US. If your a white Brit UK citizen, the US immigration laws are way against you.

Australia or Canada would probably be a much better bet.

a reply to: sooth

Its also the perfect formula for destroying a Nation from the inside out.