Challenging the modern "Illuminati" mythology about them being the bad guys

I wasn't sure if I should post this thread or not due to the kind of conversation happening here lately but I'm hoping this will be a welcome change to the current left/right crap.

Ok, first off. Often when I see discussions about the actuall Illuminati, I'm talking about the age of reason, age of enlightenment Illuminati or Bavarian Illuminati I see a lot of talk about who they were allegedly but not the ideas they posses.

The point of my thread will be to assert that the Illuminati has been brand as bad by the real bad guys when in fact many of their ideas are solid and the foundation of conspiratorial thinking.

Kant

Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's understanding without guidance from another. This immaturity is self-imposed when its cause lies not in lack of understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage to use it without guidance from another. Sapere Aude! [dare to know] "Have courage to use your own understanding!"

Emmanuel kant

Now, this is clearly the true way of the conspiracy theorist, or it should be. Kant believed in the power of reason over emotion.

Jeames Beattie

When Reason invades the rights of Common Sense, and presumes to arraign that authority by which she herself acts, nonsense and confusion must of necessity ensue; science will soon come to have neither head nor tail, beginning nor end; philosophy will grow contemptible; and its adherents, far from being treated, as in former times, upon the footing of conjurers, will be thought by the vulgar, and by every man of sense, to be little better than downright fools. (I. ii. 9)

Jeames Beattie

"If there are certain principles, as I think there are, which the constitution of our nature leads us to believe, and which we are under a necessity to take for granted in the common concerns of life, without being able to give a reason for them — these are what we call the principles of common sense; and what is manifestly contrary to them, is what we call absurd."[7]

Thomas Reid

I could be wrong but please correct me. In these assertions I believe both authors are asserting a common objective truth found in consensus. A sort of collective intuition of truth based on objective reality.

Adam Weishaupt

Since the number of men is large but the earthly realm is not inexhaustible, one man can no longer profit from the labour of twenty. Moderation, contentment, and frugality must become the general morals of mankind. […] The whole earth becomes a garden, and nature has at last completed her day’s work here below, bringing permanent enlightenment, peace, and felicity together with the greatest possible number of men : she has anointed every man as his own judge, priest, and king; has turned the often-ridiculed tale of the golden age, mankind’s favorite idea of old, into a reality by discreetly removing the eternal inequality of wealth, which has been ineffectively combated by all lawgivers and has always has crept back in, and which is the source of the decay of all nations, and the root of servitude, tyranny, and disunity among men, of venality and moral corruption, making it forever impossible through the excessive growth of the human population. Adam Weishaupt (Bavarian Illuminati creator)

Read that carefully, would a modern Illuminati in the neo-conspiracy sense be making suggestions such as one man can no longer profit from the labuor of 20 men? Does that sound like the world we live in today?

Should you seek might, power, false honor, excess — seek that we would work for you to provide your temporal advantages — we will bring you as close to the throne as you wish, and then turn you over to the consequences of your folly, but our inner sanctuary remains closed to such. But should you want to learn wisdom — want to learn to make mankind more clever, better, free and happy — then be thrice welcomed by us. Adam Weishaupt

Do you think this fits the current model of our way of thinking towards the Illuminati?


Referring back to Emmanuel Kant's theory on man's own emergence from nonage... does thinking on your own outside of the confines of culture and popular thought with reason and intuition fit into today's mentality of control and domination?

There would be far less suffering amongst mankind, if men -- and God knows why they are so fashioned -- did not employ their imaginations so assiduously in recalling the memory of past sorrow, instead of bearing their present lot with equanimity. Johann Wolfgang Von Geothe

Friedrich Heinrich

Three years later he strongly criticized Immanuel Kant in his Über das Unternehmen des Kritizismus (“On the Enterprise of Criticism”). Kant had created a dualism of sensibility and understanding that denied the possibility for the limited, sense-bound human mind to understand transcendent phenomena, but Jacobi defended an intellectual intuition that began in feeling and resulted in faith.

Do you believe that these people challenging you to think sensibly, challenge your own inner dialogue, to think with reason and see past the veil are your enemy?



Or does someone want you to think that?

a reply to: toysforadults

There are seasons to things... in the case you are talking about there is the Age of the Sun, or the age of Science, or the age of Illumination.

That age lasted about 2,600 years and recently ended.

So a new season is beginning.... an age of enlightenment, an age of spirituality, an age of becoming as humans what we are really supposed to be... spiritual creatures that will understand the form we are currently trapped in.

It's a good place to be in.. the first couple hundred years of course will be turbulent, but then we can finally get to a better place.

There is Illuminati, and there is the opposite to that.

Luminari.

Stalin wanted to enlighten us as did Hitler, Mao, damn great many people wanted to enlighten the world.
Do you have a standard moral code or are we subjugated

Think sensibly, what like aborting a baby after it’s born, sensible?

a reply to: toysforadults
That plays I to another theory I have dabbled with others about to on here. The name Jesus may have actually belonged to the bad guy, and Satan/Lucifer was the good guy, and the winner twisted the story all around to annoint himself as the savior of mankind.

Just as the rulers of old would completely erase any smeblance of existence from history of those they Conquered or challenged them. We will always be deceivers to ourselves (humanity I mean).

a reply to: Lumenari

Oddly enough, if I remember correctly, the age of enlightenment or reason came at the tail end of the dark ages

coincidence?

a reply to: worldstarcountry

law of reversal

inversion of truth, law of man not the laws of nature or natural law if you like

a reply to: toysforadults

I am of the unapologetic and sincere understanding that the Bavarian Illuminati had the best interests of humanity in mind, and are definitely NOT associated with the global turmoil of economic slavery, wars, erosion of rights, nor the centralization of global totalitarianism.

Posts # 11, 12, 13, & 14 of the thread:

Wrongly Demonized - Promoters of Goodness & Freedom - Knights Templar, Freemasonry, & Illuminati

a reply to: Sahabi

Oooo cool thanks for the link.

Yes, everything they state kind of challenges today's narrative. I believe they were demonized on purpose by the real bad guys.

as I stated above, law of reversal or inversion of truth

also, wouldn't you have loved to have been able to attend one of those REAL universities and not the crap today?

a reply to: toysforadults

Historic events clearly indicate that the Illuminati’s first and most aggressive opponent was none other than the Society of Jesus (Jesuits).

a reply to: Sahabi

oh I wouldn't doubt it, think of it...

Society of Jesus (inversion), what is the inversion in the name of the Society of Jesus????

a reply to: Raggedyman

The illuminati have nothing to do with Mao, Hitler, Stalin or the current top dogs. That's why they were forbidden once as they tried to infiltrate upper ranks of society.

a reply to: toysforadults

The Masons , the Jesuits , Switzerland , the Bavarian Illuminati , the Cults of Ancient Knowledge All interrelated . Knowledge is Power , and sometimes it is Misused and Hidden from others for the Benefit of the Few . How is that Not a Bad Thing ?

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

none of the members of the Bavarian Illuminati hid any knowledge in fact if you actually read what they thought their goal was to share knowledge and promote the ideas of equality, freedom and rise of reason and enlightenment in all of man

"Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes its laws". Mater Amschel Rothschild

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Raggedyman

The illuminati have nothing to do with Mao, Hitler, Stalin or the current top dogs. That's why they were forbidden once as they tried to infiltrate upper ranks of society.

That wasn’t my point
Simply, who decides what is right and wrong?
Those with the guns?

No matter who it is they will make people their subjects

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: toysforadults
So a new season is beginning.... an age of enlightenment, an age of spirituality, an age of becoming as humans what we are really supposed to be... spiritual creatures that will understand the form we are currently trapped in.

It's a good place to be in.. the first couple hundred years of course will be turbulent, but then we can finally get to a better place.

It's your own responsibility to be enlightened, if you're going to be. The season isn't going to do it for you. And you need to act in the present, I don't care what you do in 200 years. Do you realize that the whole ideology that is promising you this will have changed before 200 years passes. People will stop caring about it and they'll wait for some other 200 years instead. You're building everything on shifting sand, it's hubris to think you have this manifest destiny.

a reply to: Raggedyman

So everyone is evil?

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Stalin wanted to enlighten us as did Hitler, Mao, damn great many people wanted to enlighten the world.
Do you have a standard moral code or are we subjugated

Think sensibly, what like aborting a baby after it’s born, sensible?

You just listed a few bad apples amongst a great lot of others that were actually doing it with peace and a working social climate. I know that the old Incas [or one of the great civilisations in the Americas] had at one time a very well working society where everyone had their own land and things were ruled in a very logic and common sense way.

Rome didn't do badly in my opinion either, they nudged us 100s of years forward and literally civilised the uncivilised.

There are always great peaceful times somewhere, there have been plenty of benevolent and intelligent leaders. The lack of me not giving you examples is twofold. One I really can't be asked t the moment and secondly you don't very often learn about them or hear about them.
It's almost as if the baddies are more interesting.

Well you decided to make a point using only a few selected baddies. Your point wouldn't work if the goodies were equally represented. As I know as a fact they exist and existed in history [you can find them if you search online] means that you have either have no clue what you are talking about, you have dreadful arguing skills, or you click and paste selected examples that suit you, ignoring deliberately the others.
Which is what they do in the MSN as well.
We don't fall for that crap any longer.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Sahabi

oh I wouldn't doubt it, think of it...

Society of Jesus (inversion), what is the inversion in the name of the Society of Jesus????

I know what you're referring to, but I don't think that was intentional

The “IHS” is a “Christogram”. This is a type of monogram which is an abbreviation of Jesus’ name.

Greek has its own alphabet and in it “Jesus” is spelled “ιησυς” and when capitalized it becomes “ΙΗΣΟΥΣ”. If we take just the first three letters of this word then we have “ΙΗΣ”. These are the Greek letters “iota”, “eta” and “sigma”. When these letters are converted (“transliterated”) into our alphabet it becomes “IHS” (sometimes “IHC”, “JHS” or “JHC”).

restlesspilgrim.net...

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: toysforadults

There are seasons to things... in the case you are talking about there is the Age of the Sun, or the age of Science, or the age of Illumination.

That age lasted about 2,600 years and recently ended.

So a new season is beginning.... an age of enlightenment, an age of spirituality, an age of becoming as humans what we are really supposed to be... spiritual creatures that will understand the form we are currently trapped in.

It's a good place to be in.. the first couple hundred years of course will be turbulent, but then we can finally get to a better place.

There is Illuminati, and there is the opposite to that.

Luminari.

I have thought about this as well.. In the Bible, "Satan" has not killed or hurt a single person. He offers a choice, then shows the results of that choice, like any teacher would. He seems to leave the choice to us, not slaughter whole nations, children included.

The leftist mindset we have today seems to have been around forever. Good is bad, bad is good. Perfect lie to trick people that Satan is bad when he may not be at all. Now esoterically I guess Satan is just our shadow, everything is internal, the allegory that is. I forget.




On topic. I think they may start out as a small group who want to do good, but somehow, smelly s*it ends up joining and using the information for bad.

a reply to: toysforadults

The part that gets me about all of this, the real kicker, is duality.. Everything has duality, except how our world is run.. There is Evil. According to duality, the good guy's should win once in awhile.. Yet it seems to be garbage from day one, for thousands of years. Any perceived period of enlightenment doesn't last long. The day the U.S. was founded, was the day the plan to destroy it was probably already in the works. So I wouldn't really call that a win. Even the founding of America is suspicious.

Now I am not saying there are not good people in these societies, of course there are.. But wtf are they doing during all of this?