World Takeover 2005 (This needs to be done)

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
Hello All,


What would happen if all people of all races actually woke-up and went after the government.

The government would properly respond with all conventional means, and failing that they'd move to nuke/chem/bio warfare.

In reality term's what if every man, woman and child dropped EVERYTHING and demand that government(s) WORLD WIDE that a cilivian take over is iminant

If everyone did this, then even the people in the government would be saying it.

and all military commanders and troops are to stand down OR be taken down EVERYWHERE

THen the gov and troops would fight against the public and destroy the rabble.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
The Internet has made all government obsolete, frankly.
Please explain to me why I need a Senator or Congressman
when I understand TCP/IP and Internet?

Please explain to me exactly how the computer you are on
takes the place of representation in an elected government.
So you get information quickly. Politicians may, or may not,
read blogs, but blogging and chatting in places like this
certainly doesn't take the place of having elected representation
in Washington where decisions are being made.

All government is obsolete? That is simply not true. You pay
town, state, and federal taxes. You elect people to decide
how those funds are to be used. You elect people to manage
the military, the money system, schools, roadways, water and
food security and quality standards. Inspectors for these things.
Elected officials select qualified international representation for
our country. The representation signs trade and business
treaties as well as defense agreements. etc.etc.etc.
There is no way that having a PC sitting in your bedroom
can replace those things. It's impossible.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
Hello All,


What would happen if all people of all races actually woke-up and went after the government.

The government would properly respond with all conventional means, and failing that they'd move to nuke/chem/bio warfare.

You've nailed it right there, Nygdan
Then they'd turn the whole dead biomass into Soylent Green and sell it right back to the ones that are left walking around (and hungry)

Originally posted by DYepes
I think we the people should decide where OUR tax
dollars are goign to go into the budget every year.

If you live in America (I don't know your location) then you
already do have a voice in deciding. It's called VOTING.
Everyone gets to vote and that is how your voice is heard
about how you want your tax money spent. The candidate
with the most votes goes on to represent his/her area and
to make the majority of voices heard.

I am not happy with how some of my tax money is being
spent .... so I have to make that unhappiness known by
voting for the person who most represents how I feel, or
I have to run for office myself.

As much as I'd like to have red line veto power, it isn't
practical for every person in America to have that. Everyone
contributes evenly to welfare, infrastructure, defense,
medical grants, etc. etc. It's the only fair way to do things.

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
what if every man, woman and child dropped EVERYTHING
and demand that government(s) WORLD WIDE that a cilivian
take over is iminant and all military commanders and troops
are to stand down OR be taken down

Citizens in free countries around the world have volunteered
to be in the military. Those military commanders and troops
ARE civilians from those countries who have volunteered to
serve. Civilians have voted to have militaries. Civilians have
voted to have self defense. Civilians themselves have voted
to have military spending.

But for the sake of your suggestion ... pretend that civilians
suddenly decided they no longer wanted the military, or no
longer wanted their governments. So they rise up, take over
and then what??? They will organize, decide who will be in
charge. Elect leaders and sub leaders. Gather $$$ (taxes)
and the whole thing starts all over again and you once again
have a GOVERNMENT. Chaos and anarchy just won't work.
People will organize. They have to. Organize or die. It's
just that simple. Getting rid of one government will just
eventually lead to another government and having
some form of government is necessary for human survival.

Even the Native American Indians had elders and chiefs and
such. They may not have had elections (I don't know), but
they had a group that they looked to for governing the tribes.

Instead of running away from government. Try to help by
being educated on the issues, educating others on the issues,
and VOTING.

Please explain to me exactly how the computer you are on
takes the place of representation in an elected government.

FlyersFan, here's my answer to your question:

The Internet is a special type of computer network which cannot be destroyed by nuclear war. It CAN however be destroyed by administration. As long as regular people own the ISPs (where the Internet DNS servers are located) then it is the people who own the Internet.

In the days of democracy's origin, it was the Roman farmers inability to get in from their fields and vote on every issue that created the need for Senators. Senators are useless idiots now that we have the Internet. Now we can all (humanity) have a true, global, government administrated democratically through a verifiable electronic machine (Internet).

In order to fight fraud in this context, we need only modify the government so that our elected leaders become IT people or accountants. Their character should be impeccable and these men/women will administer the Internet for us. They will be a sort of police-force to keep the Internet operating freely and serving the people. The Internet is the house and the senate all rolled up into one. We do not need the edifices of government anymore, IMO.

If we can all jump on ATS and determine what 30,000 people think, then why not a larger website where we determine what 30,000,000 think or more? It would not be harder than making a radar-proof airplane, for example.

The Internet is huge hammer placed into humanity's hands and which could break the chains of work-slavery but I'm afraid this window will pass before people realize how powerful the Internet is. If the Internet were recognized for what it is, we could have world peace within one week.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
The Internet is a special type of computer network
which cannot be destroyed by nuclear war.

You are right. It doesn't need nuclear war to be destroyed.
All it takes is a flip of a switch and ... poof .... powers out and/or
the net is down. It's very easy to do. Filters are also very easy.
Saudi Arabia and China are two very well known examples of
government control of the internet. The Governments of those
countries run the phone lines and satelitte connections ... which
is what people feed off of for the internet.

I also greatly enjoy the freedoms that the internet brings ....
and I wonder how we ever got along without it. BUT ... it is
a very fragile reality and can be manipulated, filtered, censored,
and shut off instantly. It can not replace local governments
for the realities of life .... schools, roads, community medical issues,
elderly care, defense, etc.

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas

Originally posted by LadyV
Why are you telling!? Not to mention that all caps are reserved for admins & mods only!

WHAT????

There is a distinction in modern English that advocates the use of capital letters for uses other than expressing a loud tone of voice. This device is more commonly used for expressing the importance of a word or phrase in a sentence or drawing attention to it. Can we agree that ignorant abuse of this device is a stupid and annoying thing which should be punished BUT proper usage of the Engligh language and its devices a tool for all of us?

Originally posted by smallpeeps

As long as regular people own the ISPs (where the Internet DNS
servers are located) then it is the people who own the Internet.

Exactly who would 'regular people' be? The people we elect to carry our
voices to local, state, and federal government are 'regular people'.
For the most part they are the people who live next door, or down the
road. They are Americans who have (hopefully) educated themselves on
the issues and who can make good decisions.
(well ... except for wackos who get in the system - like Barney Frank )

we need only modify the government so that our elected leaders
become IT people or accountants.

That's still an elected representative government. Only difference is
that you would make them computery savy??

You are right. It doesn't need nuclear war to be destroyed.
All it takes is a flip of a switch and ... poof .... powers out and/or
the net is down. It's very easy to do. Filters are also very easy.
Saudi Arabia and China are two very well known examples of
government control of the internet. The Governments of those
countries run the phone lines and satelitte connections ... which
is what people feed off of for the internet.

Taking the power-grid away from humans will cause more problems than the Internet going down, so what's your point? I'm saying that if the power is up, we do not need our governments as currently defined.

I also greatly enjoy the freedoms that the internet brings ....
and I wonder how we ever got along without it. BUT ... it is
a very fragile reality and can be manipulated, filtered, censored,
and shut off instantly.

It cannot be censored or manipulated in the way you are speaking. Trust me, I know. The Internet is nothing more than a bunch of servers in a bunch of rooms across the planet. Those TCP/IP servers are what we should be defending with our lives, not some old documents from hundreds of years ago, and certainly not any men who's lives or careers are based on those documents.

Countries like China are trying to own the Internet in the same way AOL, Earthlink and Verizon are trying to own it. Yes, if you are a customer of these companies, they could replace an image or a phrase on any webpage you see and thereby control the Internet. However, this would take a ridiculous amount of time to oversee and so they take the easier, opposite route, claiming, "The users make the Internet what it is. We just give them the connection."

Besides, the type of filtering you're talking about is either [A] IP filtering (which is not impossible to bypass), or [B] search-engine filtering (which happens all the time at Yahoo and Google anyway). These are not major problems for the Internet community to deal with because in the end, webpages consist of pictures and words on servers and this will always be secondary to Google or similar corporate-search-engine crap for lazy people.

It can not replace local governments
for the realities of life .... schools, roads, community medical issues,
elderly care, defense, etc.

Those are easy issues to resolve once there is a mixed, real-time forum. It was Ross Perot who proposed a town-hall idea, wasn't it? I think ol' Ross was on to something. Let's start a Town Hall forum and work to protect it. The Internet could easily discharge all of these responsibilities (defense becomes more of a civilian militia issue, elderly care is handled by joint partnership for that purpose, etc) and free us from elected officials who have no technical skills.

In the world I propose, our elected officials would simply be chosen from among blue-collar people and would be chosen on the basis of their 1: Moral Character, and 2: Technical Skills. These people would be our new leaders. They would be like elected Bill Gates' but collared by We the People. They would not be bribeable because their job would be so particular and regimented. Picture complying with ISO standards and you'll get what type of control I'm talking about. This "IT Man" would be our elected official and his only job would be to keep the Internet clean and operating.

The Internet is nothing less than Jesus, Mohammed and ALL the prophets returned in machine-form. It is salvation emerged from the devil's belly if only Earth's people would see it as such.




[edit on 28-2-2005 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by DYepes
I think we the people should decide where OUR tax
dollars are goign to go into the budget every year.

If you live in America (I don't know your location) then you
already do have a voice in deciding. It's called VOTING.
Everyone gets to vote and that is how your voice is heard
about how you want your tax money spent. The candidate
with the most votes goes on to represent his/her area and
to make the majority of voices heard.

I am not happy with how some of my tax money is being
spent .... so I have to make that unhappiness known by
voting for the person who most represents how I feel, or
I have to run for office myself.

As much as I'd like to have red line veto power, it isn't
practical for every person in America to have that. Everyone
contributes evenly to welfare, infrastructure, defense,
medical grants, etc. etc. It's the only fair way to do things.

What about the black projects??? Desert covert Ops'??? CIA, NSA and so forth... You pay for all of this yet you don't know what is going on so would you rather choose what YOU want to pay for or have the government(s) force you to pay for everything????


Where there is secrecy there is war

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
what if every man, woman and child dropped EVERYTHING
and demand that government(s) WORLD WIDE that a cilivian
take over is iminant and all military commanders and troops
are to stand down OR be taken down

Citizens in free countries around the world have volunteered
to be in the military. Those military commanders and troops
ARE civilians from those countries who have volunteered to
serve. Civilians have voted to have militaries. Civilians have
voted to have self defense. Civilians themselves have voted
to have military spending.

But for the sake of your suggestion ... pretend that civilians
suddenly decided they no longer wanted the military, or no
longer wanted their governments. So they rise up, take over
and then what??? They will organize, decide who will be in
charge. Elect leaders and sub leaders. Gather $$$ (taxes)
and the whole thing starts all over again and you once again
have a GOVERNMENT. Chaos and anarchy just won't work.
People will organize. They have to. Organize or die. It's
just that simple. Getting rid of one government will just
eventually lead to another government and having
some form of government is necessary for human survival.

Even the Native American Indians had elders and chiefs and
such. They may not have had elections (I don't know), but
they had a group that they looked to for governing the tribes.

Instead of running away from government. Try to help by
being educated on the issues, educating others on the issues,
and VOTING.

It is true we need a government but we need a one world government. ONE where everyone is equel in there own way and are not told how to dress or how to think or how to educate themselves.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Then why does your info on the side say
'I'm STUCK in Communist China'? Have you
tried to have children? Have you tried to have
more than one child? Have your neighbors
tried to have children or tried to go to Catholic
church at a real Catholic church instead of the
state Catholic church (which is NOT part of the
Roman Catholic church)?? Have you spoken out
against anything lately? Seen anyone who has
(and survived to tell the story)? Sorry, but I don't
buy the 'I have more freedom in China' stuff.
But I'm glad you are happy there.

YOU SUFFER
From the effects of
PROPAGANDA

_________________________________________________

I'm not stuck in china. It's Irony. See how it's the only word not
capitalized in the whole lot of them. How could someone be
stuck in China?? Half of people who think like you don't want to
come.

I can have as many babies as I want because I am AMERICAN

China has 56 Ethnic Nationalities. Only 1 are subject ot the
One Child policy. All other 55 can have as many babies as
they want!

There are Churches in my city. And Synogogues too! Never
heard that on CNN did you?

I joined students in protesting the building of a Mobile Phone
Relay Tower in our community! It was great!

You don't have to Buy anything from me, but I bet you
more than half the things you buy are

MADE IN CHINA

Hunting, I would stand beside your idea to the end for I beleive in the same solution.

But take notice how many times the word anarchy has been mentioned so far in the thread...poeple are completely overlooking your point.

plain and simple theres just too many ass kissers in the world
(you may, or may not know who you are!)

People dont need government to survive,

the first inhabitants of this planet had no government, it may help to govern a large population much like ours, for different reasons. Some organization is needed.
But I dont think we should be talking about overthrowing all governments and everyman for themselves, somewhere along the line for some reason man has created these forms of organizing large populaces and they are simply outdated for the current and future human needs

arent we using forms of government created by the romans? last time i checked their civilisation has fallen by the wayside!

If more common people like hunting could voice their opinion and maybe help to actually change things....NOT just vote for some camera cheesing billionaire to falsly represent him.

MONEY should not be part of our lives... we base our lives on a piece of paper that represents a certain amount of gold...
GOLD its a freaking rock!! chemically its a few steps up from copper, right?
so why all the value? why not instead of making it gold they could have made it shael or clay or sand...alot more to go around isnt there?

There are ways for us to continue having all our current luxuries without a controlling government. Im willing to bet they have already figured out many of them, but you wont be hearing about it on the news anytime soon

[edit on 28-2-2005 by Qlone]

Me too Hunting, I am voting you for Way Above Top secret...and if there was a Way Below Top Secret they FleyerFan or whatever would get it...Way to go man!!

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
What about the black projects??? Desert covert Ops'???
CIA, NSA and so forth... You pay for all of this yet you don't
know what is going on so would you rather choose what
YOU want to pay for or have the government(s) force you
to pay for everything????

You betchya' my tax money pays for black projects and I
am VERY happy that it does. I wish MORE of my tax money
would go to defense and covert security rather than have
it wasted on garbage like HIV research (A completely avoidable
disease .. not worth one penny of research money). We all
are enjoying the fruits of black projects, the CIA and NSA.
It's called freedom and being safe (well ... safER). The B2 was
a black project. The stealth fighter was a black project. MANY
things have been/are black projects and it is very important
that they are. If the technology got out to the enemy, then it
would no longer give us an edge in defense.

I'd looooooooooove to have red line veto power to red line
garbage spending and to increase our defense and intelligence
spending. I'd love it. But the way it's done is we all get to
vote and what the most people want, is what the most people
get. So unfortunately I have to put up with junk spending
like AIDS research and give-away programs to foreign countries
just as much as you have to put up with (really important) spending
on defense and intelligence.

People who enjoy freedom in America and yet who don't want their
tax money going to black projects, the CIA, NSA, etc. .... don't
understand what is necessary to ensure their freedom. They
assume their freedoms will be there but they don't want to pay
for them.

Thank GOD that we have a democratic voting system. That way
there are enough people who have grown wise through their
years and understand what is necessary in the national budget.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
I'm saying that if the power is up, we do not need
our governments as currently defined.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh. I thought you were saying something
totally different. (sometimes chat rooms are hard places
to get ideas across ... it's easier to talk in person!)

Okay.. coming from that thought ... we still would have a government.
People always elect others to run things. So to get rid of this government
would just eventually lead to another government coming up. Even if it
was a cyber government, there would still be a government and people
would still elect others and representatives would still be picked, etc. etc.

What would happen in power outages or in case of war? You need
to have physical contact between people to keep the government going.

representatives would still be picked, etc. etc.

Why would you need to be 'represented' if the government is administrated via the Internet? Why not make yourself a direct citizen? Why not have a straight vote for any bill or resolution?

Who needs a Senate or a Congress when all the issues are avilable for you to decide on the Internet? The people could run the government themselves.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Why would you need to be 'represented' if the
government is administrated via the Internet?

In America - Many people are not on line. Many people
are too poor to have home computers. Many people are
older and 'just can't figure the dang thing out'.

Outside America - I've been to Bolivia. Not many people
could afford home computers there. How about the
outback in Australia? Major parts of Africa. etc. etc.
No phone lines. No internet connections. No computers.
No computer repair possibilities. The technology and
education to support an Internet government isn't there.
Access isn't there.

In America - Many people are not on line. Many people
are too poor to have home computers. Many people are
older and 'just can't figure the dang thing out'.

And yet we see the efforts made to allow voting. TV time is given for the election process. Libraries, schools, etc are opened to allow the voting process. I say open these libraries and schools 24/7 and have free Internet access. Librarians can be trusted far more than Senators, don't you agree?

The problems you mention are easily overcome. Global wireless has been a reality for years.



[edit on 1-3-2005 by smallpeeps]