Instead of wall, why not make it a crime to hire, harbor and support illegal immigrants?

originally posted by: TheRedneck
Taxes are there to fund the government, not to let the government choose winners and losers in the economy.

That sinking ship has sailed, but I agree, I don't want my money going to pick some politician's view on what could be a winner. Most of them wouldn't know what winning was if it Rochambeau'd them.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I had to look up "Rochambeau" as I had no idea what it meant. I wish I still didn't.

Is that really a thing? Are we really that far into "Idiocracy"?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck


It's from South Park and those politicians earned it.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

No argument there. is there such a thing as a gang-Rochambeau?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck


I say we start one but I think our legs will tire out before we've dealt with everyone who needs a kicking.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

We can only do what we can do.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: TheRedneck


It's from South Park and those politicians earned it.

Rochambeau is also played over seas.

Play rock paper scissors.
Winner kicks loser in the balls.

Thats rochambeau

I just read where it said south park.

I think it has been around longer than south park has

Trump would be in big trouble. a reply to: dojozen

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

You need to be a citizen to register to vote at a national level.

Yes, but the same party that supports open borders also opposes any effort to ensure that voters are legal citizens.

Coinkidink?

TheRedneck

In 2013, every Democrat in the Senate voted for the 'Gang of Eight' immigration overhaul bill that provided about $40 billion for border enforcement, including deploying thousands more agents. Recently (June 21, 2018), Senator Charles Schumer tweeted, in reply to Trump, "Open borders, @realDonaldTrump? The bipartisan immigration bill I authored had $40 billion for border security and would have been far more effective than the wall."

The Dems don't support open borders. Trump's repeated misrepresentation that they do, are outright lies.

Some Republican Party propagandists have misconstrued the Dems attempt to get higher citizen participation in voting, as to include non-citizens, but that is a false representation of the facts. The Dems want stricter adherence to the existing Voting Rights Act. Democratic Party Platform - 2016 elections - Voting Rights.

So, the Dems also don't oppose any efforts to ensure that voters are legal citizens. Again, misrepresentation and outright lies.

... and while we are at it, let's look at some related details: The Democrats don't support open borders. - USA Today.

a reply to: chr0naut

In 2013, the Democrats voted in favor of a border wall, meaning they supported border security. Today they are voting against it, meaning they do not support border security. The only differences are 6 years and the name of the President, which means they either changed their minds for some as-yet-unexplained reason, or they hate Trump more that they love America.

Either one is a condemnation.

You can post as many links as you want... heck, you can fill up the ATS database until it bursts from links that claim otherwise. It doesn't matter. Their actions say what they consider important. Words which oppose actions are meaningless.

All you did in that post was show clearly how screwed up the DNC is with their priorities. Congratulations.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

In 2013, the Democrats voted in favor of a border wall

Actually, it was 700km of border fencing covering the most vulnerable places. Not a 2,000 km "beautiful concrete wall from sea to shining sea" (which is exactly what Trump has just said that he did NOT say)

, meaning they supported border security. Today they are voting against it, meaning they do not support border security.

But they aren't against border security. They are opposed to Trump's implementation of it.

But it's moot now, because it looks like Trump has caved and is already trying to suggest that we misunderstood him.

The only differences are 6 years and the name of the President, which means they either changed their minds for some as-yet-unexplained reason, or they hate Trump more that they love America.

Either one is a condemnation.

The fact that you think that this is an either/or binary type of situation indicates a very poor imaginative ability. For instance;

- What about if Trump has an agenda motivated by megalomania and a psychopathic personality disorder? In that case, his use of ethnic tensions as a propaganda tool, fits with what is observed. (Like suggesting that America's opioid problem comes across the southern border when, by far, the major part of the problem is from prescription drugs - 2.1 million prescription opioid addicts vs. 467,000 illegal opioid addicts [NIH figures]).

- What about if Trump is a Russian agent (as has been alleged - even by the Russian government and spy agencies) and the wall, immigration issues and consequent government shutdown are attempts to undermine US stability.

- What about if Trump was a crime boss and every time the investigation swerves close to the truth, Trump manufactures another crisis to impede the investigation (how do you think the FBI is going if it has no money to do forensic science due to a government shutdown)?

- What about if Trump had dementia, or was an imbecile, or was functionally illiterate and was being controlled, to do the bidding of others for unknown or nefarious ends? All sorts of covfefe might arise.

You see, there are so many possibilities! You could mix & match, too, to create even more scenarios that exactly fit the evidence.

You can post as many links as you want... heck, you can fill up the ATS database until it bursts from links that claim otherwise. It doesn't matter. Their actions say what they consider important. Words which oppose actions are meaningless.

All you did in that post was show clearly how screwed up the DNC is with their priorities. Congratulations.

TheRedneck

OK, so you are a Trump sycophant and will not listen to reason, or alternate hypotheses. On ATS.

Got it.

a reply to: chr0naut

But they aren't against border security. They are opposed to Trump's implementation of it.

BS.

- What about if Trump has an agenda motivated by megalomania and a psychopathic personality disorder? In that case, his use of ethnic tensions as a propaganda tool, fits with what is observed.

Trump is a megalomaniac. I think everyone knows that. So is Pelosi, Clinton, Graham, Obama, McCain (RIP), Romney, Waters, and 99.9% of everyone in the government. The fact that you willfully ignore them while you bash Trump for the same exact thing is damning evidence of your own cognitive dissonance,

- What about if Trump is a Russian agent

What about if you have advanced TDS? That seems to be the more likely scenario here.

Two years with every possible type of investigation concerning everyone and anyone even remotely connected to him being investigated by the most rabid investigative bulldogs the US has to offer, and all that has come to fruition is a handful of associates lied about unrelated activities and had skeletons in their closets from before they even met Trump... and you still claim this fairy tale, started by a political opponent who did conspire with Russia, is somehow Gospel truth?

- What about if Trump was a crime boss

What if he is a holographic projection planted in the White House by Reptilian overlords living inside the hollow flat earth?

- What about if Trump had dementia, or was an imbecile, or was functionally illiterate and was being controlled

And simultaneously a crime boss. Got it. Next.

Oh, there is no next. I guess even fantasy has its limits.

OK, so you are a Trump sycophant and will not listen to reason, or alternate hypotheses.

No, I am a realist. Some of us can be conspiracy theorists and realists at the same time. We call it "critical thinking."

And no, you don't "get it." I'm not sure you ever will. Your hatred of everything US is quite clear, and quite debilitating apparently.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

But they aren't against border security. They are opposed to Trump's implementation of it.

BS.

- What about if Trump has an agenda motivated by megalomania and a psychopathic personality disorder? In that case, his use of ethnic tensions as a propaganda tool, fits with what is observed.

Trump is a megalomaniac. I think everyone knows that. So is Pelosi, Clinton, Graham, Obama, McCain (RIP), Romney, Waters, and 99.9% of everyone in the government. The fact that you willfully ignore them while you bash Trump for the same exact thing is damning evidence of your own cognitive dissonance,

- What about if Trump is a Russian agent

What about if you have advanced TDS? That seems to be the more likely scenario here.

Two years with every possible type of investigation concerning everyone and anyone even remotely connected to him being investigated by the most rabid investigative bulldogs the US has to offer, and all that has come to fruition is a handful of associates lied about unrelated activities and had skeletons in their closets from before they even met Trump... and you still claim this fairy tale, started by a political opponent who did conspire with Russia, is somehow Gospel truth?

- What about if Trump was a crime boss

What if he is a holographic projection planted in the White House by Reptilian overlords living inside the hollow flat earth?

- What about if Trump had dementia, or was an imbecile, or was functionally illiterate and was being controlled

And simultaneously a crime boss. Got it. Next.

Oh, there is no next. I guess even fantasy has its limits.

OK, so you are a Trump sycophant and will not listen to reason, or alternate hypotheses.

No, I am a realist. Some of us can be conspiracy theorists and realists at the same time. We call it "critical thinking."

And no, you don't "get it." I'm not sure you ever will. Your hatred of everything US is quite clear, and quite debilitating apparently.

TheRedneck

You are the one emotionally invested in Trump. I honestly couldn't care less about the person.

If any one has a 'derangement' in regard to Trump, it would be those that adulate him, not those disaffected. But such obviously rational conclusions are likely to elude the deluded.



Also, there are many things that i like about the US and many things I dislike about it. The situation is not as simple and 'black and white' as you seem to find comfortable.

That seems to be a failing of several Trump supporters on ATS. They cannot seem to conceive that the world is full of variety and a multiplicity of opinions and reasons. For them, if someone isn't a Trump supporter, they must be a Democratic party member/supporter or a left-winger.

And Mueller's investigation was not into Trump colluding with the Russians. It was into Russian interference in the 2016 elections. So far, it has charged 34 individuals, that we know of, so I think it has been worthwhile. Also, the investigations are continuing and after those two years it seems more malefactors are being exposed, so there's that.

Here is the definition of 'megalomania' from the free dictionary. Ask yourself, do any other politicians refer to themselves in the third person? Also, when you read the dictionary definition, which politicians come to mind as exemplars? Clearly Trump stands out as exemplifying the definition (although I take your point that those who seek public office mat appear to have an overly self-important self-image to an outsider.

As someone who has worked in politics (at a national government level in the country where I live) while never even remotely wanting to take office, I can vouch that very many politicians are not megalomaniacs and have a genuine concern for their constituents.

a reply to: chr0naut

You are the one emotionally invested in Trump.

In some ways, yes I am. I care about my country. I saw Trump as perhaps the only chance to straighten its course.

If you want to call that a bad thing, go right ahead. I really have come to discount your opinions anyway, since you are wrong on facts so much more than you are right.

Also, there are many things that i like about the US and many things I dislike about it.

That's always a good reason to hate it.

Denying that you despise the US at this point is just verification of your dishonesty.

As someone who has worked in politics (at a national government level in the country where I live)...

Well, there goes the idea of ever visiting there. I prefer first-world countries.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

You are the one emotionally invested in Trump.

In some ways, yes I am. I care about my country. I saw Trump as perhaps the only chance to straighten its course.

If you want to call that a bad thing, go right ahead. I really have come to discount your opinions anyway, since you are wrong on facts so much more than you are right.

In a country of 320 million people, are you so bereft of hope in all the genius and brilliance of mankind, that you choose someone like Donald Trump, instead?

Also, there are many things that i like about the US and many things I dislike about it.

That's always a good reason to hate it.

Denying that you despise the US at this point is just verification of your dishonesty.

No, I don't hate America. I have already told you.

The dream of the new Camelot of Kennedy. The hope of a future where there is honor in being a common man. Where might does not determine right. A kinder gentler America, the shining citadel of the world. That is the America I don't despise.

I'm pretty assured that the dark and desperate place where Trump is leading, falls far beneath that.

As someone who has worked in politics (at a national government level in the country where I live)...

Well, there goes the idea of ever visiting there. I prefer first-world countries.

TheRedneck

You can't come here. the prison is of your own creation.

a reply to: chr0naut

In a country of 320 million people, are you so bereft of hope in all the genius and brilliance of mankind, that you choose someone like Donald Trump, instead?

That question makes quite the assumption. It assumes that Trump has been bad for the country. Nothing could be farther from the truth IMO. He has abolished the ACA individual mandate, created an economic boon that has dropped unemployment to levels that were previously scoffed at, created a dialogue with North Korea, cut taxes, and a host of other things that I see as positive.

You seem to see all that as negative. Based on that, it would seem you are in favor of forcing people to pay money they don't have to those who have the most, extreme poverty, war, and higher taxes. Every time you post that, you are telling me how much you hate America.

Or you are simply trying to turn our political system into your own little soap opera.

No, I don't hate America. I have already told you.

You told me once, but you have told me numerous times how much you do hate it, as mentioned above. Which should I believe?

The dream of the new Camelot of Kennedy. The hope of a future where there is honor in being a common man. Where might does not determine right. A kinder gentler America, the shining citadel of the world. That is the America I don't despise.

Those are great ideals. It's too bad they don't exist. They can never exist as long as there is greed, selfishness and hatred for others in the world... like the hatred you exude from every post. Wanna change the world? Start with the dude in the mirror.

You can't come here. the prison is of your own creation.

Actually, I have been scheduled to go there, to watch a launch I assisted on. I wasn't able to go, due to some extended delays.

Our prisons are indeed our own creations. I choose mine to not be filled with those who are criminals. You choose as you see fit.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

In a country of 320 million people, are you so bereft of hope in all the genius and brilliance of mankind, that you choose someone like Donald Trump, instead?

That question makes quite the assumption. It assumes that Trump has been bad for the country.

Was the shutdown good for the county?

Nothing could be farther from the truth IMO. He has abolished the ACA individual mandate

...and, arguably, replaced it with it's clone.

, created an economic boon

Falling stock markets from this November, severely reduced auto industry, the shutdown... however, a fairly balanced economy, but hardly a boom.

There have been 33 boom economies in the past. They last, on average, 38.7 months and are always followed by a bust.

that has dropped unemployment to levels that were previously scoffed at

Unemployment was already trending lower before Trump came to office. If anything, the rate of change slowed during 2018-2019.

The unemployment rate was the same in 2000 & 1946 as it is today, and lower in 1969, 1968, 1967, 1966, 1952, 1951, 1947, 1945, 1944, 1943 & 1929.

, created a dialogue with North Korea,

Which did nothing. As a deal, the US abided by its end of the bargain, Korea, not so much.

cut taxes

Trump’s Tax Cut Claims. Actually some tax cuts balanced against some tax increases, which is entirely fair and what all governments have done to balance the books.

, and a host of other things that I see as positive.

You seem to see all that as negative. Based on that, it would seem you are in favor of forcing people to pay money they don't have to those who have the most, extreme poverty, war, and higher taxes. Every time you post that, you are telling me how much you hate America.

No, I favor a flat tax rate based upon productivity (so the wealthy can't Chapter11 a company to write-off the taxes of their total business).

Also, mechanized productivity would attract a higher taxation, which means that robotics and mechanization will not make one person obscenely rich while they divest themselves of a workforce. Something to think about in this modern age.

Or you are simply trying to turn our political system into your own little soap opera.

Well, it does have its fair share of game show hosts and 'TV personalities'.

No, I don't hate America. I have already told you.

You told me once, but you have told me numerous times how much you do hate it, as mentioned above. Which should I believe?

But I don't hate America. I have never told you that I hate America. You are just seeing it that way because you feel persecuted, guilty and insecure when someone mentions things that are your responsibility, as an American citizen, to try to fix.

The dream of the new Camelot of Kennedy. The hope of a future where there is honor in being a common man. Where might does not determine right. A kinder gentler America, the shining citadel of the world. That is the America I don't despise.

Those are great ideals. It's too bad they don't exist. They can never exist as long as there is greed, selfishness and hatred for others in the world... like the hatred you exude from every post. Wanna change the world? Start with the dude in the mirror.

So, high ideals are not do-able because your world is a mashup of Gotham City and Detroit? What a dark little hole to (want to) live in!

You can't come here. the prison is of your own creation.

Actually, I have been scheduled to go there, to watch a launch I assisted on. I wasn't able to go, due to some extended delays.

Our prisons are indeed our own creations. I choose mine to not be filled with those who are criminals. You choose as you see fit.

TheRedneck

The US has the highest incarceration rate and largest incarcerated population in the world.

I live here on my distant Pacific Islands.

a reply to: chr0naut

Was the shutdown good for the county?

Is one bad thing sufficient to ignore many good things? Even when that bad thing was due to the actions of others?

...and, arguably, replaced it with it's clone.

Oh, I can't wait to hear this one! What mandate was it replaced by?

Falling stock markets from this November, severely reduced auto industry, the shutdown... however, a fairly balanced economy, but hardly a boom.

Lowest unemployment in decades, lowest ever unemployment for minorities, new business startups all over the place, GDP pushing 4% (impossible according to Obama)... yeah, that's a boon.

The word is "boon," not "boom."

There have been 33 boom economies in the past. They last, on average, 38.7 months and are always followed by a bust.

You sound like a Hulu commercial: "Never buy Hulu, because you'll never be satisfied with normal TV again."

So one should never have good economics because it might fail? Argument rejected outright.

Your unemployment numbers are cherry-picked and do not reflect the entire economic situation.

Which did nothing.

So you didn't mind test rockets flying across Japan? Strange, the Japanese did.

Like your unemployment claims, your tax numbers are garbage.

No, I favor a flat tax rate...

Then implement one.

But I don't hate America. I have never told you that I hate America.

If your previous posts are an indication that you "don't hate America," please start hating us.

So, high ideals are not do-able because your world...

Not my world... yours too.

The US has the highest incarceration rate and largest incarcerated population in the world.

Did you miss where the evil Donald Trump passed (badly needed) prison reform as well?

I live here on my distant Pacific Islands.

Thank God Almighty for that. Please stay there.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

Was the shutdown good for the county?

Is one bad thing sufficient to ignore many good things? Even when that bad thing was due to the actions of others?

"Well, he smiled a lot and said he was, like, really sorry while he killed everyone, so there's that, or he could have been a Canadian". < (hypothetical comment to point out the ridiculousness of suggesting that good actions balance out bad).

...and, arguably, replaced it with it's clone.

Oh, I can't wait to hear this one! What mandate was it replaced by?

The BCRA eliminates the ACA individual mandate but introduces a penalty of a 30% increase in premiums for one year, for not maintaining continuous coverage, so, the net effect is the same - contribute or your health coverage is screwed.

Falling stock markets from this November, severely reduced auto industry, the shutdown... however, a fairly balanced economy, but hardly a boom.

Lowest unemployment in decades, lowest ever unemployment for minorities, new business startups all over the place, GDP pushing 4% (impossible according to Obama)... yeah, that's a boon.

The word is "boon," not "boom."

Has the underlying infrastructure, resources and production capability actually increased, or is this just flag waving about how big a loan you have taken out, ignoring that it is actually debt?

The latest figures for 3rd quarter 2018, GDP is at 3.4% so the purported crown is slipping.

Also, from 1997 to 2000, GDP was greater than 4%. In 1942, it hit an all time high of 18.9%, so Trump's supposed 'miracle' is nothing.

Also, there doesn't seem to be any government figures on new business or business closures since 2016, so I wonder if anyone really knows about the true situation. None the less, no-one doubts that there are new businesses everywhere, but I can be fairly sure that they are nothing compared to the levels prior to 2005.

There have been 33 boom economies in the past. They last, on average, 38.7 months and are always followed by a bust.

You sound like a Hulu commercial: "Never buy Hulu, because you'll never be satisfied with normal TV again."

So one should never have good economics because it might fail? Argument rejected outright.

There is no 'might fail' about it. If there is no substance behind it, then all such confidence based bubbles will correct. One might say that they are a 'confidence trick' against gullible markets.

Your unemployment numbers are cherry-picked and do not reflect the entire economic situation.

Ditto.

Which did nothing.

So you didn't mind test rockets flying across Japan? Strange, the Japanese did.

There you go, jumping to sublime confusions. The test rockets were a symptom of little Kim's desire to attain a nuclear offensive capability, which Trump has done nothing to impede.

All the advisors and pundits suggested that diplomatic solutions, like Trump tried, would be ineffective because the DPRK, historically, has ignored such agreements.

Like your unemployment claims, your tax numbers are garbage.

They aren't my tax numbers. I linked to FactCheck.org but I did point out in the following sentence that governments budget their money so a tax cut here equals a tax hike there.

Are you suggesting that the government didn't balance their budget?

No, I favor a flat tax rate...

Then implement one.

I continue to argue for a flat tax rate based upon production, as I do with the establishment of a Universal Basic Income (Canada has already begun implementing one). It isn't the the 18th century any more we need to deal with the ongoing situations from 21'st century economics.

But I don't hate America. I have never told you that I hate America.

If your previous posts are an indication that you "don't hate America," please start hating us.

Nope (How stubborn am I?).

So, high ideals are not do-able because your world...

Not my world... yours too.

The US has the highest incarceration rate and largest incarcerated population in the world.

Did you miss where the evil Donald Trump passed (badly needed) prison reform as well?

I live here on my distant Pacific Islands.

Thank God Almighty for that. Please stay there.

TheRedneck

Sorry, I enjoy travel.

But I do avoid many parts of the world, by preference. Probably for the same reasons that I don't go out of my way to 'take in' sewage treatment plants and the like.