The Government Shutdown Just Became More Costly Than Trump’s Border Wall

originally posted by: notsure1
I hope they keep it shut down for years.

One thing this has taught me is we dont need em.

I'll take some of my money back first, then we can keep it shutdown.

originally posted by: highvein

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: highvein

Will the people not getting their food stamps still vote in dem representatives?

That's the burning question!

Of course they will. If they don't, they might have to go to work.

Was talking with a Black woman about the shutdown, she's all for it.

"I'm sorry that you can't get your food stamps so you can sell them for a new weave, Laqueesha!".

She's a hoot.

originally posted by: Saiker
a reply to: amazing

Guess your children never get their homework done either because this wall was voted on decades ago and the politicians still have not done their job.

Not sure what you mean. My Children get their homework done, because we make sure it get's done.

When we're talking about border security, we should be talking about border security and not my children's homework? Some people can't focus?

a reply to: amazing

Here's what I got.

Yeah, you're correct, but you're equating words with actions. When the House added the funding for the border wall in December, they did so not just because Trump wanted it, but because they also agreed. They could have approved it and sent it to Trump, but he would likely have vetoed it. Then the Senate and House would have the chance to override the veto. And all happened before the shutdown. When Trump said he would take the blame, he wasn't giving the Congress permission to shut the government down and blame him; he was saying if Congress tried to force him to sign a bill without funding, he would veto it, shutting down the government, and would take the blame for doing so.

McConnell has indeed refused to bring up "any bills the President won't sign," but the point is that if he doesn't bring them up for a vote, the President cannot just change his mind and sign them, ending the shutdown. The Senate still has to pass the bills. We don't even know for sure if the Republicans in the Senate would go along with the legislation, even if Trump agreed with it.

The point is that Trump was never given the chance to shut down the government. He never got the chance to use his veto power. Congress has to put a bill on his desk that would reopen the government before that can happen, and Congress has not done so. So Congress still holds the responsibility. There is no other (intellectually honest) way to look at this.

Now, all that said, I support the building of a wall. No other security system can be effective without some sort of physical barrier, and to be honest I would rather have the steel slats instead of concrete. The steel slat design seems much more impenetrable than concrete. It takes industrial tools and a lot of time to cut through; there is no good support point for the upper end of a ladder; there is no good catch point for a hook to be thrown to the top; CBP agents can see through to the other side; the top is spiked to prevent it from becoming a 'second base' area to plan the trip down. It's a great design. It's not 100%, but no wall truly is and this one is close. Combined with CBP patrols and electronic sensors, I believe successful crossings will be pretty rare events.

And that will channel crossing attempts to ports of entry, where officials can concentrate their efforts.

So, even if someone wants to blame Trump, I agree with the reasons behind the shutdown and consider the characterization of a 'tantrum' as ignorant of the factual reality of the border. I personally blame the shutdown on Pelosi and McConnell, where it belongs, but then I hold Pelosi in disdain for her position and consider McConnell as having the moral high ground on this issue. If Trump were to veto a bill that did not address the border, I would support him for it, not because I want the government employees to hurt (I certainly do not), but because this is something that has been sorely needed for a long time and needs to happen, whether Queen Nancy wants it to or not.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Annee

Anyone besides me getting tired of hearing this lame excuse?

Then please stop with the "walls don't work" or "walls are immoral" excuses and you won't have to hear it.

Present a lame excuse, expect a lame response.

I'd listen to anyone with a halfway reasonable excuse, but thus far no one has presented one. The only ones I hear are

• "Walls don't work" - Just wrong.
  
• "Walls are immoral" - Again, just wrong.
  
• "Too much money" - A small fraction of what we send to Central America in aid, and a microscopic fraction of what we spend on supporting illegal aliens every year.
  
• "Walls can be breached" - Which takes time, which allows CBP to foil the attempt/arrest the intruders.
  
• "Planes..." - Radar.
  
• "Tunnels..." - Sensors.
  
• "Oceans..." - Coast Guard.
  
• "Canada..." - Not an issue yet.
  
• "But Trump..." - I don't care! This ain't about personality!

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

It's a mess for sure, and I'm not holding democrats blameless and I'm not holding the Senate blameless either.

I still think that it's something that should be worked out, like adults. I realize that there are very few adults in congress, but still...

So.. are there people that actually believe that the wall will cost 5 billion? That's hilarious.

a reply to: amazing

I still think that it's something that should be worked out, like adults. I realize that there are very few adults in congress, but still...

On that, sir, we agree.

TheRedneck

a reply to: fleabit

The section(s) CBP has designated for 2019 will. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

TheRedneck

a reply to: amazing

Yet obama shut down the government. Twice. Because he didn't want to do what republicans wanted to do.

a reply to: highvein

How do you figure,they don't get paid so less money,anything you spend otherwise is a result of yourself,you milleniums need to get a jo0b and start supporting yourself instead of childish rants not to work,or how the man is stickin it to ya because you have to work,try it once

sadly the press is being dishonest about this. They want to blame Trump but he has no bill to even consider. Without congress providing a funding bill he couldnt open the government if he wanted to. Congress controls the money the only power the president has is he can send a bill back and make them vote again.

So Until Congress starts doing their job there is no end in sight,

a reply to: dragonridr

Hmmm... so you are saying it will take an act of Congress to open the government so Congress can act?

That's a scary thought!

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Cassi3l

5.7 bn and a 32 day shutown
800 000 people going unpaid

So many lengths to go to,
to win The International Laughing-Sock of the year award
It's generally given away free to most people though ...

rather hard to negotiate when the other side is absolutely refusing to negotiate at all. now in the business world if this happens you just say goodbye, and go to someone or a company that will negotiate. unfortunately he can't do that with the democrats. and so we end up with this stalemate.

a reply to: generik

This is no stalemate. This is trump exposing for all to see: the dems deal in bad faith. They don't care about border security. They don't care about americans. They care about importing voters for their future socialist dystopia.

originally posted by: amazing
You seem to be saying that we should cave in to temper tantrums? LOL I don't do it with my children, I sure wont' do it with an adult.

As an adult, you should be able to weigh the reward:defecit ratio. As an adult, you should be able to recognize that not every tantrum that is thrown is unwarranted. As an adult, you should be able to recognize that you're not always right.

When you consider the above, it's in every ones best interest to approve the wall, regardless if you feel it was a "temper tantrum" or not. A.) You may be wrong. B.) It will cost more. C.) Being obstinate for the sake of being obstinate is the same charge you're accusing of Trump, which you label as a temper tantrum.

From a completely unbiased point of view; here are the facts. Tariffs and taxes were levied upon Mexico for the purpose of paying for the border wall. From the revenue generated of those taxes and tariffs, the wall would take 0.1%. So the wall is free.

What I see is democrats throwing a temper tantrum because they know if they can somehow legalize illegal immigration that their voting base will grow. They don't want a wall precisely because they know it will work; and they want to use the money from mexico to expand the sanctuary cities into sanctuary states. There is an agenda here, and their agenda is actually costing crazy amounts of money and putting people who rely on government programs into situations that are life changing.

Where as Trump is holding his ground, because he wants less than 1% of money he generated to be used for a purpose that even Obama said during his presidency was necessary.

You've got to think deeper than "Oh I hate X, so X is throwing a tantrum, so hold your ground no matter what damage holding your ground does."

The bottom line is, when your kid throws a tantrum over not getting gummy bears, nobody suffers.

originally posted by: Oldtimer2
a reply to: highvein

How do you figure,they don't get paid so less money,anything you spend otherwise is a result of yourself,you milleniums need to get a jo0b and start supporting yourself instead of childish rants not to work,or how the man is stickin it to ya because you have to work,try it once

*Sigh*

Well, we actually do work, and we work harder than you did, and we get paid less, while everything costs more. Thanks for doing that to us. You're super swell.

The cost of living has raised ~3,000% since 1975, wages have increased about 12%. It's your generations fault.

In 1975, a house that costs $320,000.00 cost $7,350.00. In 1975, you could afford to buy that house working as a bagger at the grocery store.

In 2019, you could work 80 hours a week being a bagger at a grocery store and barely afford your rent, let alone food, entertainment, necessities....

Who's fault is it? Oh that's right, the generation that made this for us. It's a thing called math, and it seems that you don't realize how the world changed because you were able to actually have success, while stealing the chances of success from the next generation by refusing to pay a living wage, so you can sit in your high castle and yell at us that we're lazy.

a reply to: amazing

But remember that it was exactly the same with Obama. The republicans did everything they could to obstruct him

Trump wants a border wall , in which many US citizens feel the same
Barry put up a wall between the people and their healthcare.

a reply to: Gothmog

...and made us pay for it...

TheRedneck