The Government Shutdown Just Became More Costly Than Trump’s Border Wall

If this goes beyond 30 days and he starts laying off dead weight and deep state actors, the shutdown will be worth it and pay for itself.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Cassi3l

The point of the "houses have walls" argument is to refute the ludicrous allegation that "walls don't work." They certainly do. I am still waiting for someone to take me up on my challenge and show a video of them walking through a wall at the same speed as though it wasn't there. I've never been able to do that.

TheRedneck

It looks something like this:

It’s quite remarkable how many rwnj’s want to start a revolution over a stupid wall that won’t work. Grow up. Of all the stupid things to shut down the government over, this one takes the cake. Oh well, can we at least agree tRump is not an effective deal maker. More like an abject failure. . a reply to: highvein

originally posted by: soundguy
It’s quite remarkable how many rwnj’s want to start a revolution over a stupid wall that won’t work. Grow up. Of all the stupid things to shut down the government over, this one takes the cake. Oh well, can we at least agree tRump is not an effective deal maker. More like an andject failure. . a reply to: highvein

Given that he wants 5B out of what, 1.1T?

Explain growing up to me again.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: amazing

Who actually shut the government down?

You have the answer in that post:

n United States politics, a government shutdown occurs when Congress fails to pass sufficient appropriation bills or continuing resolutions to fund federal government operations and agencies, or when the President refuses to sign such bills or resolutions into law.

Quite correct.

Now, of the two occurrences that you list above as being possible causes for the shutdown, which has happened? Trump has not vetoed a bill, so it can't be that one. Congress has not passed an appropriations bill, though, which is indeed what has happened. The House has passed some, but the Senate must concur before they make it to the President. The House cannot pass a bill alone.

Trump refused to discuss ending the shutdown when both Pelosi and Schumer refused to provide the funding he requested.

Well, Schumer can't provide the funding... all Schumer can do is block it. McConnell is the Majority Leader in the Senate. Pelosi can pass whatever she wants, and she is the only leader in the Congress at present that can do so. Cloture rules in the Senate mean that even McConnell cannot force a bill through the Senate without 7 Democrats agreeing to let it come to a vote.

It would appear to me that Trump is shutting down government because he's not getting his way. That sounds like a temper tantrum to me.

That's not what your quotes above show. They show that Pelosi and McConnell are responsible. Congress has not passed an appropriation bill yet. That's why the government is shut down. Trump couldn't reopen it if he had to... he has to sign an appropriation bill and Congress won't give him one.

Now, who's throwing a temper tantrum?

TheRedneck

Well I guess I'm confused then.

Here's what I got.

December 19 - Senate passes spending bill. Bill is then sent to Republican controlled house
December 20 - Trump says he won't sign Senate bill; House moves to add wall funding-House ads 5bn of wall funding. Sending legislation back to the Senate
December 22 - Partial government shutdown begins (Day 1) Senate couldn't get enough votes to pass bill with 5bn wall funding added
January 3 - Democrats take control of the House, pass spending bills (Day 13)The package would reopen the government and allocate more than $1.3bn in funding for border security measures, but not a wall.

Trump says he will not sign any bill without funding for a border wall.
January 10The House passes individualised spending bills to reopen specific departments and agencies. The bills are sent to the Senate, but Republican leader Mitch McConnell says he won't bring forth any legislation that Trump won't sign.
January 14 - Trump rejects Republican's proposal (Day 24)Trump rejects Republican Senator Lindsey Graham's proposal to reopen the government without wall funding and allow for wall funding talks to continue

So let's discuss. Who's at fault here? Is it Trump, although not vetoing, is saying he won't sign any legistlation without border wall, so they aren't sending him the legislation?

originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: amazing

Oh only Trump wants that wall? Trump and Trump alone wants it?

He's the only one shutting government down and making people work without pay for it though.

Riiiiight.

How many bills has he vetoed?

I didn't think we were talking about vetoing bills? I thought we were talking about shutting the government down?

Are you knowledgeable in how U.S. government works??

I'm confused are we arguing or on the same side here? LOL I just posted a timeline, and although Trump hasn't vetoed any legislation regarding government funding, he's been saying he wont' sign any legislation without border wall funding. Thus the Senate and house aren't sending him anything to vote on. Yes? No?

a reply to: amazing

Trump hasn't vetoed any legislation

Exactly my point. Congress doesn't answer to the PotUS and vice versa.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: amazing

Trump hasn't vetoed any legislation

Exactly my point. Congress doesn't answer to the PotUS and vice versa.

But they do work together. Hes' saying he wont' sign anything and thus republican and democratic leaders aren't sending him anything. There's a direct effect there between the Potus, the senate and the house. I'm still saying he's throwing a temper tantrum because there's no funding for his wall. Shouldn't he be working with both parts of congress and, I agree, shouldn't they be working with him?

a reply to: amazing

So they won't send them anything, correct?

Why can't the hash out a bill to put in front of him, if nothing else, to veto?

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: amazing

So they won't send them anything, correct?

Why can't the hash out a bill to put in front of him, if nothing else, to veto?

They have, both the senate and house. He's rejected both, just not formally vetoed them. Why no formal veto or perhaps formal legislation, I'm not sure, but they've been meeting and talking.

a reply to: amazing

Formally veto?

Help me understand here.

Has a bill come across his desk?


Bottom line is congress if failing to do its job based on partisan politics.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: amazing

Formally veto?

Help me understand here.

Has a bill come across his desk?


Bottom line is congress if failing to do its job based on partisan politics.

And I agree. But the President is also failing to do his job, by telling them before he even get's those bills that he will not sign them if they don't have 5bn for a wall in them. How is that any better?

But someone else needs to answer this. Why hasn't there been any legislation in front of Trump to open the government, forcing him to sign or veto? I don't understand?

a reply to: amazing

5b is something like half of a percent of the over trillion dollar budget.

Also considering that border security was a bi-partisan policy until Trump.

originally posted by: soundguy
It’s quite remarkable how many rwnj’s want to start a revolution over a stupid wall

I've not heard a single Republican talk about a revolution over this minor funding issue... we do, however, see where your mind is going. "Start a revolution" over $5.7 Billion and the potential for a physical barrier separating us from the foreign nations to our South! SMGDH

originally posted by: highvein

originally posted by: amazing
You seem to be saying that we should cave in to temper tantrums? LOL I don't do it with my children, I sure wont' do it with an adult.

Well take down the walls to your house. Put up or shut up.

Anyone besides me getting tired of hearing this lame excuse?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: highvein

originally posted by: amazing
You seem to be saying that we should cave in to temper tantrums? LOL I don't do it with my children, I sure wont' do it with an adult.

Well take down the walls to your house. Put up or shut up.

Anyone besides me getting tired of hearing this lame excuse?

Still not sure why someone would want to tear down walls on someone's house? LOL Lack of adequate mental health care?

a reply to: amazing
They're not allocating funds for a "Wall"
other security measures, yes
but no money for a "Wall"

And that's the size of it
1.5 bn is already a heafty sum to give out

If it's a question of "Homeland Security"
shouldn't concerned gvt branches be making their "contributions" ?

1mil from each of the respective "alphabet agencies"
... and a big majority of greenbacls from the Pentagon !
Those black-op budgets, how much would they be worth ?

the "War Department" is scaling down in Syria, Afganinam...
They'll not be spending much money now
Not unless, they're squirreling it away...

for further, Middle-Eastern excursions

a reply to: amazing

Guess your children never get their homework done either because this wall was voted on decades ago and the politicians still have not done their job.

a reply to: Annee

Lurker here, yes I'm tired of it. The analogy doesn't work unless Trump is intending to build a wall around the entire country with a roof over it as well. The people using this excuse need to tear down their roof and all but the south wall of their house and see how well it works at keeping people out.

"I will be proud to own the shutdown" . D.J.T. "I will take the blame for the shutdown" . D.J.T. It's not to big of a stretch, for anyone with an iq over 45, to see this was his intention all along.