The Government Shutdown Just Became More Costly Than Trump’s Border Wall

a reply to: highvein

Comparing your personnel dwelling to a border wall ... I hate this argument.

5.7 bn and a 32 day shutown
800 000 people going unpaid

So many lengths to go to,
to win The International Laughing-Sock of the year award
It's generally given away free to most people though ...

originally posted by: highvein

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: highvein

originally posted by: amazing
You seem to be saying that we should cave in to temper tantrums? LOL I don't do it with my children, I sure wont' do it with an adult.

Well take down the walls to your house. Put up or shut up.

LOL Go right ahead. I'll be ready for you!

That is what I thought. Not a sincere comment from you.

I'm confused. I'm not sure what you mean? You said something about taking my walls from my house. Let's start over. I'm not the brightest person on ATS. What did you mean?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: amazing
You seem to be saying that we should cave in to temper tantrums? LOL I don't do it with my children, I sure wont' do it with an adult.

I'm saying we should have lawmakers who put the country and their oath to this country above "scoring coup" on the elected President just because they still can't accept the results of an election and they harbor blind hatred of him. The Democrats are not the adults in the room here and they have zero high ground to stand on, trying to call this a temper tantrum by the man who is simply driving for a component he views as vital to fulfill his oath of keeping America as secure as possible.

But remember that it was exactly the same with Obama. The republicans did everything they could to obstruct him. I don't see any difference. But back on course here....Trump want's a wall...The democrats don't. That doesn't mean Trump should shut down the government. Do a google search and find any president in recent history..like the last 25 years or so, and you'll see that whoever it was was always obstructed by the "other" side for some reason or another.

The GOP ALWAYS buckled long before it reached this point, though. John Boehner waved the white flag in every serious showdown between the House and Obama. You can't say Obama was compromising on anything, he simply waited out the GOP leadership's resistance until they buckled... and the media cheered him for it.

I'm just saying that both parties obstruct each other. They seem to get off on it. Regardless of what happened int he past though, we shouldn't shut down government. We're only hurting ourselves.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: amazing
You seem to be saying that we should cave in to temper tantrums? LOL I don't do it with my children, I sure wont' do it with an adult.

I'm saying we should have lawmakers who put the country and their oath to this country above "scoring coup" on the elected President just because they still can't accept the results of an election and they harbor blind hatred of him. The Democrats are not the adults in the room here and they have zero high ground to stand on, trying to call this a temper tantrum by the man who is simply driving for a component he views as vital to fulfill his oath of keeping America as secure as possible.

But remember that it was exactly the same with Obama. The republicans did everything they could to obstruct him. I don't see any difference. But back on course here....Trump want's a wall...The democrats don't. That doesn't mean Trump should shut down the government. Do a google search and find any president in recent history..like the last 25 years or so, and you'll see that whoever it was was always obstructed by the "other" side for some reason or another.

can you show me any of your posts from back then were you stood up for the republicans when they did this? Because you are saying it's the same, then out of the other side of your ass, you say the dems aren't at fault. explain that to me please.

I'm not standing up for anyone. All I'm saying is that Trump shut the government down. Show me a link where I'm wrong and I'll apologize for it. I don't care if it's a republican or a democrat doing it. Shutting the government down because you don't get your way is a temper tantrum and it's wrong.

originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: amazing

Oh only Trump wants that wall? Trump and Trump alone wants it?

He's the only one shutting government down and making people work without pay for it though.

Riiiiight.

How many bills has he vetoed?

I didn't think we were talking about vetoing bills? I thought we were talking about shutting the government down?

originally posted by: gallop

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: highvein

originally posted by: amazing
You seem to be saying that we should cave in to temper tantrums? LOL I don't do it with my children, I sure wont' do it with an adult.

Well take down the walls to your house. Put up or shut up.

LOL Go right ahead. I'll be ready for you!

Sounds like you're willing to take up arms against someone just wanting a better house?

Are you? Are you willing to get all military on someone, just for wanting a better house? What if they bring their 3 year old kids with them? Why won't you let them in? You ... standing there with your shotgun aimed at them.

RAYSIS!! NAZZII!!!

Booo Hissss......

So....you want people to come and take apart my house? Why? Interesting concept. Keep in mind that I'm all for border security. Is it because I want a secure border that you want people to tear down my house? Please give me more information on your weird little stance there. I'm all ears.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: amazing

You seem to be saying that we should cave in to temper tantrums? LOL I don't do it with my children, I sure wont' do it with an adult.

I keep seeing this argument. You do realize how ridiculous it is? President Donald Trump is not your child, and you don't get to decide what the President does... you only get a voice, one out of 100-150 million or so, in whether or not he keeps his job in two years.

It also takes more than just the President to shut down the government... no President has that power. In case you didn't notice, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer are in this game of chicken as well. If they simply allowed Trump to have less than 12 hours worth of the annual budget for something he won the election over, the government would be open the next day. Are they throwing a tantrum? Why are you not calling them out? Nancy Pelosi took a trip to Puerto Rico, then a vacation in Hawaii, and tried to take a tour of Europe instead of being where she is needed. Is that a tantrum? Pelosi has made no offer to try and resolve the gridlock, but she keeps using her one-word vocabulary ("no") whenever Trump makes an attempt. Is that a tantrum? Pelosi decided that Trump shouldn't give the SOTU address in 'her' House Chamber... is that not throwing a tantrum? What would she have to do for you to decide that she is throwing a tantrum? Get 24-7 news coverage on CNN, NBC, MSNBC, and the rest of the usual suspects of her laying on the floor kicking and screaming and then holding her breath?

It's obvious what you consider a tantrum when the subject is the President: he tried to do his job.

TheRedneck

But hear me out. I think you'r wrong here. Who actually shut the government down?

n United States politics, a government shutdown occurs when Congress fails to pass sufficient appropriation bills or continuing resolutions to fund federal government operations and agencies, or when the President refuses to sign such bills or resolutions into law. In such cases, the current interpretation of the Antideficiency Act requires that the federal government begin a "shutdown" of the affected activities involving the furlough of non-essential personnel and curtailment of agency activities and services. Essential employees are still required to work without pay until the government reopens, when they may then receive back pay. These employees may include medical professionals in the Veterans Hospitals and TSA agents.

Trump refused to discuss ending the shutdown when both Pelosi and Schumer refused to provide the funding he requested.

It would appear to me that Trump is shutting down government because he's not getting his way. That sounds like a temper tantrum to me.

Lot's of things don't go presidents ways, they generally comprimise and work around issues like this to keep the government open.

I've said it before, that I've been an elected official, a manager, worked in telecommunications and restaraunts, been in the Army, worked in non profits, been involved in all kinds of sports and programs and associations.

When we had a disagreement we worked around it and comprimised to come up with the best solution to get the job done, accomplish the goal or complete the mission. We didn't through temper tantrums when we didn't get our way?

a reply to: TheRedneck

If they simply allowed Trump to have less than 12 hours worth of the annual budget for something he won the election

He won the election over the wall and that Mexico was going to pay for it... remember that part?

He also promised a great health care plan for all Americans...Remember that? where is that? For fux sake you guys have cried about the ACA for years... this whole national emergency just came up in the last few months... why do you not hold him to task for that?

One of his campaign promises was to build a wall... A great wall, from sea to shining sea... I get that... but the majority of Americans did not vote for trump... So now that the electoral college is out of the picture... the majority of the people do not think a giant concrete wall is necessary...

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: amazing

Oh only Trump wants that wall? Trump and Trump alone wants it?

He's the only one shutting government down and making people work without pay for it though.

Maybe someone should write Pelosi a letter and tell her all about how compromising works.

And I agree. I think it's stupid how no one in government or politics knows how to work together.

Politicians are paid to debate, to argue they aren't paid to work together, the stupid is on the voting public to know this yet still vote these corrupt people into power and then wonder why nothing gets done.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: amazing

Oh only Trump wants that wall? Trump and Trump alone wants it?

He's the only one shutting government down and making people work without pay for it though.

Maybe someone should write Pelosi a letter and tell her all about how compromising works.

And I agree. I think it's stupid how no one in government or politics knows how to work together.

Politicians are paid to debate, to argue they aren't paid to work together, the stupid is on the voting public to know this yet still vote these corrupt people into power and then wonder why nothing gets done.

And I agree. I almost always vote out the incombent and/or vote third party. Voting down party lines is what got us into this mess.

a reply to: amazing

Instead of waking up to this people are just drawing lines in the sand and threatening violence on those standing in their way, this won't end well.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: amazing

Instead of waking up to this people are just drawing lines in the sand and threatening violence on those standing in their way, this won't end well.

I don't see a civil war happening though. I just see more of the same and more gridlock, more government shutdowns, more business as usual. You see it in how Republicans put down Libertarian and constitution party candidates and how Cortez is being put down by her own democratic party. They don't want change in anyway.

a reply to: amazing

Who actually shut the government down?

You have the answer in that post:

n United States politics, a government shutdown occurs when Congress fails to pass sufficient appropriation bills or continuing resolutions to fund federal government operations and agencies, or when the President refuses to sign such bills or resolutions into law.

Quite correct.

Now, of the two occurrences that you list above as being possible causes for the shutdown, which has happened? Trump has not vetoed a bill, so it can't be that one. Congress has not passed an appropriations bill, though, which is indeed what has happened. The House has passed some, but the Senate must concur before they make it to the President. The House cannot pass a bill alone.

Trump refused to discuss ending the shutdown when both Pelosi and Schumer refused to provide the funding he requested.

Well, Schumer can't provide the funding... all Schumer can do is block it. McConnell is the Majority Leader in the Senate. Pelosi can pass whatever she wants, and she is the only leader in the Congress at present that can do so. Cloture rules in the Senate mean that even McConnell cannot force a bill through the Senate without 7 Democrats agreeing to let it come to a vote.

It would appear to me that Trump is shutting down government because he's not getting his way. That sounds like a temper tantrum to me.

That's not what your quotes above show. They show that Pelosi and McConnell are responsible. Congress has not passed an appropriation bill yet. That's why the government is shut down. Trump couldn't reopen it if he had to... he has to sign an appropriation bill and Congress won't give him one.

Now, who's throwing a temper tantrum?

TheRedneck

a reply to: amazing
It's a Donaldina deflection

Been developped downwards from whichever Trump sibling said
"Zoo's are safe because you have wire fences and cages"

Or words to such effect

That Tweet was then subsequently deleted
once the realisation of stupidity sunk in
(someone probably explained it to Jr)

Ever since, this has become reduced down to

"you gotta front door 'n' windows, right ?
what if you didn't have walls ... ?"

Wooo hoo hoooo ^¨^

Ha Haaaah gotcha !!!

And that's pretty much the ...ahem ...the height
of the "Trump Wall" supportin' crowds' argument
as an absurd a precept and as infantile as it all is
these are the only justifications that they can find

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: amazing

Oh only Trump wants that wall? Trump and Trump alone wants it?

He's the only one shutting government down and making people work without pay for it though.

Riiiiight.

How many bills has he vetoed?

I didn't think we were talking about vetoing bills? I thought we were talking about shutting the government down?

Are you knowledgeable in how U.S. government works??

a reply to: tinner07

He won the election over the wall and that Mexico was going to pay for it... remember that part?

I refuse to explain plain English again on that point. It is a laughable argument that has been rebuked at least fifty times (I honestly lost count after that).

He also promised a great health care plan for all Americans...Remember that? where is that? For fux sake you guys have cried about the ACA for years... this whole national emergency just came up in the last few months... why do you not hold him to task for that?

Yeah, he has failed so far on health care... at least partially. He did remove the individual mandate, which is the part I hated about it.

As for this just now being an emergency, BULL FREAKIN' CRAP! This was an emergency back in the 1980s! Trump is just the first chance anyone has had to actually fix it. No one else running for office cared.

but the majority of Americans did not vote for trump...

Nor did the majority of Americans vote for Obama, or Bush Jr., or Clinton, or Bush Sr., or Reagan, or Carter, or Nixon, or Eisenhower, or Kennedy.... I doubt George Washington got votes from a majority of the American people! The majority of Americans do not even vote!

Please try to get some better talking points...

TheRedneck

originally posted by: notsure1
I hope they keep it shut down for years.

One thing this has taught me is we dont need em.

Now, that's the right attitude. Maybe the American people ought to evaluate whether all these jobs are even necessary.

a reply to: Cassi3l

The point of the "houses have walls" argument is to refute the ludicrous allegation that "walls don't work." They certainly do. I am still waiting for someone to take me up on my challenge and show a video of them walking through a wall at the same speed as though it wasn't there. I've never been able to do that.

TheRedneck

a reply to: highvein

The parties keep talking about immigration reform and have been for years. Since I have been alive for the most part. Are they going to keep kicking the can down the road so they have something to run on for votes? Are they ever really going to fix anything big? It seems like they are making more problems then they fix.

It's not about the United States citizen anymore. Its all about the egos in DC. It is sad really.