Will Scotland leave the UK after Brexit and be governed by Brussels?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: sapien82

Blame everything on the English.

Perfect example; www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you look into the Darian expedition and the fact it was an English man who advised Scotland on that,....

Err, no it wasn't, it was The Company of Scotland.
en.wikipedia.org...

All the 'key people' in The Company of Scotland were Scottish.

....why did they want union, English were scared they would lose war with Napoleon and needed protected from the northern border,.....

The Darien Scheme: 1690-1700.
Act of Union: 1707.
Birth of Napoleon. 1769.
Napoleonic Wars. 1803-1815.

Now that is a desperate reach.

Aye it was maybe a reach but it wasnae mine , not sure if you were replying to me or meant to reply to Many Masks!

if you care to look at the political reasons for securing a Union you can see that aligning our religions and monarchs England would prevent Scotland from making alliances against England, The auld Alliance with France

act of union 1707 - political motivations

The English purpose was to ensure that Scotland would not choose a monarch different from the one on the English throne. The two countries had shared a king for much of the previous century, but the English were concerned that an independent Scotland with a different king, even if he were a Protestant, might make alliances against England.

Auld Alliance

originally posted by: ManyMasks
a reply to: oldcarpy

a Scot who had made his name down south as one of the founding directors of the Bank of England. Paterson returned to Edinburgh with an audacious scheme to turn Scotland into the major broker of trade across the Pacific Ocean.

a Scot indeed, but not really

there is no allegiances its them vs us

i dont blame English, thats just how you choose to see it

Come off it.

William Paterson; Wiki

Not a Scot? Pull the other one.

The Darien Scheme was backed by the Scottish Govt and was an attempt to found an independent Scottish Empire in Panama.

Not blaming the English? You put the blame here:

If you look into the Darian expedition and the fact it was an English man who advised Scotland on that,

Utter bollox. It was a Scot. You, my son, have been well and truly rumbled and your card is marked.

a reply to: ManyMasks

if that land was ripe and good to settle in and grow crops, there is NO chance Englands east india company
would of let Scotland get in there first to set up a trade route to the west of the Americas

NO CHANCE

Paterson was one of them..... the 1%

originally posted by: ManyMasks
a reply to: ManyMasks

look how many leading up to the act of union


its a no brainer to unite the island ffs

Especially when, with no help from the English, Scotland had bankrupted itself and came cap in hand. But no, blame the English, as always, and never take any responsibility yourselves.

originally posted by: ManyMasks
a reply to: ManyMasks

if that land was ripe and good to settle in and grow crops, there is NO chance Englands east india company
would of let Scotland get in there first to set up a trade route to the west of the Americas

NO CHANCE

Paterson was one of them..... the 1%

Oh give it a rest, man. You've been busted.

a reply to: oldcarpy

a Scot who had made his name down south as one of the founding directors of the Bank of England. Paterson returned to Edinburgh with an audacious scheme to turn Scotland into the major broker of trade across the Pacific Ocean.
again look at it carefully



A FOUNDING DIRECTOR OF THE BANK OF ENGLAND

and he is one of us!!!!

i dont fking thinks so



1%er you ******* tool

my cards are marked..... watch your threats btw

a reply to: ManyMasks

Oh dear, spat your dummy, have we?

What threats? Do you not understand what "marking someone's cards" means?

a reply to: ManyMasks


came back up from founding the bank of england

to make us rich too

so we wouldn't have needed to join the union

and England didnt need to secure the borders because of a long succesion of anglo-french wars

ahh ok

but thats not what happened

everything that happened went against Scotland and helped England in their wars against the French

not to mention frontline soldiers gained

a reply to: ManyMasks

Yes, the Darien scheme failed and bankrupted a lot of Scotland, but it was not the fault of an "English man", as you falsely tried to claim, or the fault of the English.

Take some responsibility for your country's actions, please? And please stop with the blaming the English for absolutely everything.

speaking of taking responsibility , William Jardine of Jardine Matheson Co. the famous Opium wars merchant , whose company still exists to this day! an evil man a truly horrible person ! and Aye , no a true scotsman hahahahah
but aye anyway he was born here but doesnt deserved the title hahahah

Jardines with many different sub divisions
anyway look who is the chairman of a company who profited from the sale of illegal opium into china
and still operates to this day . Not sure how they can legally operate when their entire company was based on illegal activity! Im sure teh Empire profited entirely from east india

Henry Keswick

and this wee nugget

He owned The Spectator, a British conservative magazine, from 1975 to 1980.[1] He serves as Chairman of Jardine Matheson Holdings Ltd, which he joined in 1961. He has been a Director since 1967 and became Managing Director in 1970, followed by Chairman in 1972.[1] He is Director of a number of Group companies. Keswick and his wife donated £100,000 to the Conservative Party in the 2017 General Election.[2][3]

So aye , we only have ourselves to blame for the #e #s who abuse the world at our expense

the reason I mention this is that its plainly obvious that the consolidation of wealth has been in practice for a very long time and companies that operated over 100 years ago are still in business today and the vast wealth they have accumulated is bein used to prop up political parties for elections.

I thought it was illegal to donate to parties in the UK for political posturing , i thought that practice was only legal in the US ?

a reply to: oldcarpy

The Act of Union
by Ben Johnson
Uniting the kingdoms of Scotland and England had been proposed for a hundred years before it actually happened in 1707.

Suspicion and mistrust between the two countries had prevented the union throughout the 17th century. The Scots feared that they would simply become another region of England, being swallowed up as had happened to Wales some four hundred years earlier. For England the fear that the Scots may take sides with France and rekindle the ‘Auld Alliance‘ was decisive. England relied heavily on Scottish soldiers and to have them turn and join ranks with the French would have been disastrous.

In the late 1690s however, thousands of ordinary Scottish folk had been tempted to invest their hard earned money in a plan to link the two great oceans of the world by establishing an overland trading route between the Pacific and Atlantic. Almost every Scot who had £5 in his or her pocket, invested in the Darien Scheme, to establish a Scottish colony in Panama.

Poorly planned, the venture ended early in 1700 with significant loss of life and financial ruin for the Kingdom of Scotland.

With many influential individuals and whole families left bankrupt by the disaster, a few financial incentives appear to have convinced some dithering Scottish MPs of the potential benefits of a union with England. In the words of Robert Burns, they (the Scottish MPs) were “bought and sold for English gold”.

In a poorly attended Scottish Parliament the MPs voted to agree the Union and on 16 January 1707 the Act of Union was signed. The Act came into effect on May 1st 1707; the Scottish Parliament was dissolved and England and Scotland became one country.

www.historic-uk.com...

a reply to: ManyMasks

aye but did ye see not one petition for the union was received !

a reply to: ManyMasks

Yes, because they had bankrupted themselves.

a reply to: sapien82

The reply was intended for you.

I know you weren't responsible for that stupid post but it was with regard to our previous discussions about many Scots refusing to accept responsibility for anything that is wrong in Scotland today and its history and their insistence to continually blame England and English people for anything and everything.

If ever there was a perfect example of that then it was that post, and his subsequent posts.

a reply to: Freeborn

Aye i'm under no illusion some people think and feel that way
it is short sighted , but anyone could easily be understood for thinking that way when history and the present does allude to people in power taking advantage of Scotland for the benefit of the few

everyone should take personal responsibility absolutely no doubts about that , just those who # us over never do!

I am unsure as to why you felt you needed to reiterate that point when I was in agreement with you from the beginning.
but aye posterity is good enough for all to see that we cant go around blaming others for our own failings
Which is exactly why Scotland needs out of this union and out of the EU union , that way we cannae blame anyone but oorsels!
Everyone is happy !
well save for the Unionists

a reply to: ManyMasks

Yes, I know. So what is your point?

a reply to: ManyMasks

So, you agree The Darien Scheme was Scottish?
Scottish investors, Scottish bankers, Scottish colonists etc.

It failed.

Many ventures like that did back then; Spanish, French and English attempts at setting up colonies in North America failed prior to Jamestown.

Difference is no-one blamed anything or anyone else other than themselves and the nature of colonising.

But in typical fashion you seek for any link no matter how tenuous to blame England and the English for the debacle.

As for The Act of Union;
Of course England got something out of it, just as Scotland did.
If that wasn't the case then what really was the point?

Despite there being much opposition to The Union, both sides of the border, there were enough mutual benefits to enact it.
Pretty much the same as today.

a reply to: Freeborn

stupid post
read this www.historic-uk.com...

the things i remembered incorrectly

were that it was Napoleonic wars, but i have shown what wars i meant, and it was a long succesion of them
and that he was English, but he was a founding father of the bank of england

this was from memory of a politics HNC i sat in 2012

easy mistakes to make, and i repeat i dont blame the English
i blame the Bankers

i should have looked it up and laid my reply out better but im reactive
and at the end of the day my argument is intelligent not stupid

or is the historian who wrote that stupid also

a reply to: ManyMasks

William Paterson was born in his parents' farmhouse at Tinwald in Dumfriesshire, Scotland,

Scottish.

Paterson relocated to Edinburgh, where he was able to convince the Scottish government to undertake the Darién scheme, a failed attempt to found an independent Scottish Empire in what is today Panama. Paterson personally accompanied the disastrous Scottish expedition to Panama in 1698, where his wife and child died and he became seriously ill.[1]

Scottish.

a reply to: Freeborn

en.wikipedia.org...
"The seven ill years was a period of national famine in Scotland in the 1690s. It resulted from an economic slump created by French protectionism and changes in the Scottish cattle trade, followed by four years of failed harvests (1695, 1696 and 1698–99). The result was severe famine and depopulation, particularly in the north. The famines of the 1690s were seen as particularly severe, partly because famine had become relatively rare in the second half of the seventeenth century, with only one year of dearth (in 1674). The shortages of the 1690s would be the last of their kind.

During this period, starvation probably killed 5–15 per cent of the Scottish population, but in areas like Aberdeenshire death rates reached 25 per cent. The system of the Old Scottish Poor Law was overwhelmed by the scale of the crisis, although provision in the urban centres of the burghs was probably better than in the countryside. It led to migration between parishes and emigration to England, Europe, the Americas and particularly Ireland. The crisis resulted in the setting up of the Bank of Scotland and the Company of Scotland Trading to Africa and the Indies. The eventual failure of the Company in the Darién scheme increased the pressure for political union with England, which occurred in 1707."


you see there are other variables to take into play, Scotland were desperate so when Patterson came with the idea that Darian would save us and make us rich its no wonder the Scots invested heavily

and it was Scottish MPs who voted not the people who were poor and dying

the MPs got Land and titles