Will Scotland leave the UK after Brexit and be governed by Brussels?

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: Flavian

So i guess if Scots really do want independence, they really do need to have the best possible potential government waiting in the wings. Or to put it another way, given the stakes, would you trust Sturgeon to navigate that extremely tricky path from the get go?

Well that's a little way down the line. Let get Brexited first and see what's what. Referendum should follow soon after. I actually think Scotland should change government styles if she goes her own way. Bin the party system and make politicians work together for the people not for the benefit of their won party. I wouldn't trust Sturgeon alone but she's not exactly been entirely bad for Scotland and would deserve her place in the Scottish government.

Absolutely.

In the event of a successful Indy vote then Scotland would have a near unique opportunity to fundamentally change not only who governs but how.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Soloprotocol

there would most likely be the younger generation unionists who would cause the most trouble
there are some absolute rockets in Glasgow , who are Union loyalists until they die , and there are also those die hards in Northern Ireland who probably wouldnt take kindly to the end of the union in Scotland !

sectarianism still resides in Scotland its always bubbling away undernaeth the surface

Very true. I saw a lot of my die hard Rangers supporting friends and Family members stuck their fingers in their ears, throw on blinkers and parrot every lie project fear had at their disposal, even when provided with proof otherwise.

I was a Rangers supporter for years until I was 12 and discovered rugby, I'd spent my Primary School years being the enemy of a kid who moved from Glasgow because I supported Rangers and realised that doesn't happen with Rugby.

My Dad is quite unusual for a die hard Rangers supporter in that he hates the Royals and wants Scottish independence, even though he wanted me to join the Orange Lodge aged 12

a reply to: djz3ro

i was brought up in the west coast of scotland my papa was worthy master of the orange lodge my step dad is from northern ireland and a mason and was also a worthy master of the OL, the parades left from my house when he was WM, and i was brought up in these ways, however after i joined facebook and seen the hate more clearly, i decided im out, i still have a soft spot for the gers of course but as far as sectarianism goes im not interested, i just watch the EPL now and support pretty much half the teams lol. i left FB in 2008 as well as that is another tool they use, the controllers have got us looking at everything but them.

when you look around there is division everywhere and its all set up to keep us hating and fearing one another instead of asking questions of those pulling the strings.

FTS

a reply to: djz3ro

Wasn't there also something in place that means all the oils fields, off the coast of Scotland, as far North as Kirkcaldy, actually belong to England?

The video below Tells you, Who did it, when it was done, and why it was done. Once again, sold out by a parcel of rogues.

a reply to: ManyMasks

Aye growing up in a small town of Grangemouth miles away from Glasgow , my mates were either rangers or celtic, (what happened to supporting your local team)
Anyway glory hunters the lot of them

sadly though most of them are still bigots
makes me wonder why I was ever friends with them, and they are only like that because they have been indoctrinated by their family

aww look at my wee baby boy , 1 year old , puts celtic or rangers top on them takes photo posts to social media !
Indoctrination begins
I know , not all parents are like this and not all rangers celtic fans are bigots but the majority are, they just dont openly admit it , because of how society is now , they keep their bigotry well hidden but often slip up when in good company
and people somehow just tolerate the bigotry as in its just banter !

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: [post=24149259]Soloprotocol[/

Typical. I just knew you would stick gummy bears in your ears and la la la la the facts away like you always have done.

You did, did you? Why don't you toddle off and watch Braveheart a few more times, like you always have done.

Ypir most pathetic post to date, quoted for posterity.

Seriously, sometimes you have some good points and sometimes you talk absolute drivel, usually when it involves Scotland.

I thought it was obvious that I was winding up certain of your particularly dour and humourless Scots brethren. Seems you belong to the same club.

originally posted by: ManyMasks
a reply to: djz3ro

i still have a soft spot for the gers of course but as far as sectarianism goes im not interested,

Aye, nearly 30 years on and I still have a soft spot for Rangers. I might hate football but I hate Celtic more ha ha (jk-ish)


I still have Facebook and make the odd controversial post, mainly to keep the profile in the public eye as I use it to promote various things I do....

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: ManyMasks

Aye growing up in a small town of Grangemouth miles away from Glasgow , my mates were either rangers or celtic, (what happened to supporting your local team)
Anyway glory hunters the lot of them

sadly though most of them are still bigots
makes me wonder why I was ever friends with them, and they are only like that because they have been indoctrinated by their family

aww look at my wee baby boy , 1 year old , puts celtic or rangers top on them takes photo posts to social media !
Indoctrination begins
I know , not all parents are like this and not all rangers celtic fans are bigots but the majority are, they just dont openly admit it , because of how society is now , they keep their bigotry well hidden but often slip up when in good company
and people somehow just tolerate the bigotry as in its just banter !

Even not being a football fan, I'm guilty of the Rangers top on my elsldest daughter. It was a 1st Christmas present from my Dad and he only gave her it to wind up my Catholic, celtic supporting [now] ex. She wore that strip a few times, even her Mum put it on her from time to time.

My son also got a Rangers strip from his maternal Uncle and wore it a lot but wasn't slapped on the Internet that way.

And local teams are awesome, to avoid bother, when on tbe doors and asked what team I support my first answer was "I support my legs and my legs support me" but if pressed I'd say Nitton (Nickname for Newtongrange) Star, just to see the confused look on their faces (they're the local team where my Grandma was from) my real local team was Montrose

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: [post=24149259]Soloprotocol[/

Typical. I just knew you would stick gummy bears in your ears and la la la la the facts away like you always have done.

You did, did you? Why don't you toddle off and watch Braveheart a few more times, like you always have done.

Ypir most pathetic post to date, quoted for posterity.

Seriously, sometimes you have some good points and sometimes you talk absolute drivel, usually when it involves Scotland.

I thought it was obvious that I was winding up certain of your particularly dour and humourless Scots brethren. Seems you belong to the same club.

I thought you were better than that...

a reply to: djz3ro

Happy to disappoint you then.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
a reply to: djz3ro

Wasn't there also something in place that means all the oils fields, off the coast of Scotland, as far North as Kirkcaldy, actually belong to England?

The video below Tells you, Who did it, when it was done, and why it was done. Once again, sold out by a parcel of rogues.

Daylight robbery!

with reference to the earlier discussion on the act of union itself , only a few voted it through for the benefit of them !

Looks like it wasnt so popular afterall
nearly voted out , saved by a margin of 4 votes , 6 years after it as ratified

1713 THE UNION ALMOST FALLS John Campbell, 2nd Duke of Argyll (1678-1743), one of the great political figures of the 18th century. He was in favour of the union in 1707, but in 1713 he spoke out against it. Complaints by Scottish MPs and peers over a range of issues led to a debate in the House of Lords on 1st July 1713, suggesting the break up of the Union. It was defeated by only four votes.

Also hardly democracy when

1832 THE SCOTTISH REFORM ACT PASSED A contemporary banner from the village of Lamington, near Biggar, in support of the Reform Bill, which became law in 1832. Until this date, the number of people in Scotland who could vote was largely determined by an act of Parliament from 1681. Under the 1832 law, the number of Scottish seats at Westminster increased from 45 to 53, and those who could vote from 4,500 to 65,000, which was roughly one-eighth of the population. The principle of ‘one person, one vote’ was not introduced until 1928.

So 1707 to 1928 , 221 years later the people were allowed to vote ! in contrast the people of England were allowed the vote in 1918


even then we didnt get devolution until 1999 so we werent allowed to control our own nation , and only partially so until near 300 years later
291 years it took Scotland to achieve only a partial devolution !


Equal Partners in UNIITY , Aye right

a reply to: sapien82

If you look into the Darian expedition and the fact it was an English man who advised Scotland on that,
We lost something like 2 thirds of our money into it and couple it in with the Ill years where many died because famine, they made it impossible for us to say no, why did they want union, English were scared they would lose war with Napoleon and needed protected from the northern border, if Scotland sided with the French the English would have lost, they could have been took from all sides

a reply to: ManyMasks

aye Englands fear was that we'd side with our auld alliance !
but that wasnt the only reason being thrown around for the Union

there many factors contributing , consolidation of power and state religion , the protection of resources and wealth

a reply to: ManyMasks

If you look into the Darian expedition and the fact it was an English man who advised Scotland on that,

Who was this English man? I thought the Darien Scheme was a Scots led thing?

a reply to: sapien82

Blame everything on the English.

Perfect example; www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you look into the Darian expedition and the fact it was an English man who advised Scotland on that,....

Err, no it wasn't, it was The Company of Scotland.
en.wikipedia.org...

All the 'key people' in The Company of Scotland were Scottish.

....why did they want union, English were scared they would lose war with Napoleon and needed protected from the northern border,.....

The Darien Scheme: 1690-1700.
Act of Union: 1707.
Birth of Napoleon. 1769.
Napoleonic Wars. 1803-1815.

Now that is a desperate reach.

a reply to: Freeborn

I was about to post the same. Typical Scot's attitude - blame the English for everything regardless of the facts.

The Darien scheme was a Scottish one from start to finish, hoping to emulate the success of the East India Co. It failed disastrously, bankrupting many Scots in the process thus causing them to beg to join the Union.

a reply to: oldcarpy

a Scot who had made his name down south as one of the founding directors of the Bank of England. Paterson returned to Edinburgh with an audacious scheme to turn Scotland into the major broker of trade across the Pacific Ocean.

a Scot indeed, but not really

there is no allegiances its them vs us

i dont blame English, thats just how you choose to see it

oh i got my wars mixed up sorry

heres a list and the reason the English needed to secure the northern borders

vte
Anglo-French wars
1202–04 1213–14 1215–17 1242–43 1294–1303 1324 1337–1453 (1337–60, 1369–89, 1415–53) 1496-98 1512–14 1522–26 1542–46 1557–1559 1627–29 1666–67 1667-68 1689–97 1702–13 1744–48 1744–1763 1754–63 1778–83 1793–1802 1803–14 1815
Anglo-French Wars were a series of conflicts between England (and after 1707, Britain) and France, including:

Anglo-French War (1193-1199) – Rivalry between the Capetian dynasty and the House of Plantagenet, ended in an English victory at the Battle of Gisors
Anglo-French War (1202–04) – French invasion of Normandy
Anglo-French War (1213–14) – rivalry between the Capetian dynasty and the House of Plantagenet, ended in a French victory at the Battle of Bouvines
French invasion of England (1215-1217) – part of the First Barons War
Saintonge War (1242–43) – ended in a French victory at the Battle of Taillebourg
Anglo-French War (1294–98 and 1300-03) – conflict which revolved around Gascony and ended by the Treaty of Paris (1303)
Hundred Years' War (1337–1453) - ended as a French victory
Anglo-French War (1496–98) – part of the Italian War of 1494–98
Anglo-French War (1512–14) – part of the War of the League of Cambrai
Anglo-French War (1522–26) – part of the Italian War of 1521–26
Anglo-French War (1542–46) – part of the Italian War of 1542–46
Anglo-French War (1557–59) – part of the Italian War of 1551–59
Anglo-French War (1627–29) – part of the Huguenot rebellions
Anglo-French War (1666–67) – a minor corollary of the Second Anglo-Dutch War
Anglo-French War (1667-68) – part of the War of Devolution
Anglo-French War (1689–97) – part of the Nine Years' War
Anglo-French War (1702–13) – part of the War of the Spanish Succession

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: ManyMasks

look how many leading up to the act of union


its a no brainer to unite the island ffs