Will Scotland leave the UK after Brexit and be governed by Brussels?

originally posted by: oldcarpy
One thing you forget is the oil/gas was not generally just there for the taking - it required explorers to spend lots of money and take considerable risks to get the stuff out.

You Scots could not have done that on your own.

Why couldnt we have done it on our own , some of the worlds best engineers were from Scotland !
its not beyond our technical capacity !

and there ye have it first person to extract oil from the north sea was a Scottish chemist named James Young in 1851
are ye trying to suggest we are too wee and too daft to get it out without some help from outside sources?

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: ScepticScot

Nah - this is how we did it - you mugs! Like taking candy from a baby:

How westminster Plundered the North Sea and Sold Out Generations of Scots

isnt that a biased news source ?

originally posted by: sapien82

originally posted by: oldcarpy
One thing you forget is the oil/gas was not generally just there for the taking - it required explorers to spend lots of money and take considerable risks to get the stuff out.

You Scots could not have done that on your own.

Why couldnt we have done it on our own , some of the worlds best engineers were from Scotland !
its not beyond our technical capacity !

and there ye have it first person to extract oil from the north sea was a Scottish chemist named James Young in 1851
are ye trying to suggest we are too wee and too daft to get it out without some help from outside sources?

One wonders how Norway managed?

Right, been doing some research on Scotlands' finances. Im on my phone and, frankly, too old to know how to link to stuff from my phone so you will either have to take my word for it or look it up yourself (i have nothing to hide but still recommend that option).

The GERS figures clearly demonstrate that Scotland runs at about a 8.4% deficit (compared to UK average just over 2.4%, so about 3 times larger). This shows pain ahead for an independent Scotland.

However, it is also true that Scotland pays about 9.3% of the total UK tax bill with only 8.4% of the population. This, in contrast to GERS, demonstrates that the future could be rosy for an independent Scotland.

History shows that that truth is generally towards the middle of 2 views, which to me says an Independent Scotland could thrive - but the first independent government would have to hit the ground running because any major economic mistakes could see it sink faster than the Mary Rose.

So i guess if Scots really do want independence, they really do need to have the best possible potential government waiting in the wings. Or to put it another way, given the stakes, would you trust Sturgeon to navigate that extremely tricky path from the get go?

a reply to: Flavian

After independence there would be a general election so perhaps Sturgeon wouldn't be navigating anything. She mouths off a lot as if she speaks for everyone but she doesn't.

a reply to: midicon

That's the problem, with such a large deficit (which always rises after independence) there wouldn't be time for general elections, etc. They would need to be in place before independence, so they could hit the ground running before the deficit has a chance to take over.

Personally, if i was a Scot and wanted independence, i wouldn't trust Sturgeon to het the right start.

But then that seems a tad unfair on Sturgeon who has spent her whole life in pursuit of independence!

It's not just the leader though, they would need experts already in place for energy, business, economics, etc

a reply to: Flavian

I think the independence vote was lost due to Salmond's inability to answer the question of currency. He would do well, despite his blustery style, in most debates until that question came up and he had no answer.
I don't think we Scots would fancy the Euro, and truth be told, I'm sure after independence we would be able to keep the pound. I wouldn't though, I'm all for developing a new currency of some sort.
Having experts in place is the way to go unfortunately all we have is unlikeable career politicians. Hitting the ground running too, would be best but there can be a transition period. I'd be calling for an end to the monarchy too and changing our political system. Sadly that will never happen.

originally posted by: [post=24149985]midicon

I don't think we Scots would fancy the Euro, and truth be told, I'm sure after independence we would be able to keep the pound. I wouldn't though, I'm all for developing a new currency of some sort.

The Sassenach?

a reply to: midicon

I think the independence vote was lost due to Salmond's inability to answer the question of currency. He would do well, despite his blustery style, in most debates until that question came up and he had no answer.

The answer he should have given was, "We'll use the same currency you buy our Oil with". The Pound Sterling is as much Scottish currency as it is English.

The Independence vote was lost because of the biased Unionist Media, BBC, ITV, Mirror group etc. The super-rich ne'er-do-wells and Politicians scaring the # out of pensioners and those not savvy enough to see through the wind and pish.

The Bias was truly sickening from a pro-independence point of view, It was relentless right up until the polls closed.

Operation Project fear was first used here in Scotland or at least that's when the term was first used. The Media has always controlled the voting public to one extent or another.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

I don't disagree with anything you say, and despite all the fear mongering it was still a close call. If indeed the media and academics had been honest and balanced we would have easily won.
One thing I'd never considered was the way people would behave if we had won. I have a feeling that we would still be dealing with the likes of violent Unionists.

Dp

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: TheShippingForecast

What happens then if a couple of years down the line England, Wales, and NI are prospering after Brexit?

Since we're playing "What happens then if"...

What happens then if a couple of years down the line England, Wales, and NI are failing after Brexit and Scotland is thriving in the EU?

Will you be happy for us?

Of course I'd be happy for you. We share an island, if you guys make a choice which is better for you than the choices made here then I won't be bitter about it, I'd be pleased for the common people and probably lament the choices of my people.
Would you be pleased if the rest of the UK suffered post Brexit and Scots independence?

I wouldn't be happy at all, I voted against Brexit because I don't think it's the best choice for the UK from my perspective, it won't make me happy if I'm proved right. I'd be happier to be proved wrong but that seems less and less likely the closer we get to March 29th....

a reply to: midicon

I have a feeling that we would still be dealing with the likes of violent Unionists.

Only the brain dead thugs. They talk a big game but at the end of the day the majority still have their own children's mouths to feed just like the rest of us.

They'll do nothing.

a reply to: Flavian

well as tommy sheridan said (aye no the best person to quote , but he has a point) when you buy a new house you dont buy it for the curtains , and the wallpaper thats already there, you pick the ones you like the best!

In an independent scotalnd we'd pick the best party or the best system.
I think if we did go independent , id want a full independence not linked to the EU , we create our own currency and make a go of it as a fully independent nation, then that way its on us if we # it up, we also draft a new constitution and put safegaurds in place which protect the people of Scoltand from greedy egocentric opportunistic people like corporate CEO's and bankers , career politicians .
We also enshrine our laws which protect the environment and the people.
So we dont repeat the mistakes of the past.

When time passes and the rest of the UK decide to give up the old system and they too follow suit , we can create a new union once we have ditched the baggage of the capitalist system !

after all we are better together as equals in a true egalitarian society !
but we cant do it with westminster still in power

a reply to: Soloprotocol

there would most likely be the younger generation unionists who would cause the most trouble
there are some absolute rockets in Glasgow , who are Union loyalists until they die , and there are also those die hards in Northern Ireland who probably wouldnt take kindly to the end of the union in Scotland !

sectarianism still resides in Scotland its always bubbling away undernaeth the surface

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: [post=24149259]Soloprotocol[/

Typical. I just knew you would stick gummy bears in your ears and la la la la the facts away like you always have done.

You did, did you? Why don't you toddle off and watch Braveheart a few more times, like you always have done.

Ypir most pathetic post to date, quoted for posterity.

Seriously, sometimes you have some good points and sometimes you talk absolute drivel, usually when it involves Scotland.

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
a reply to: oldcarpy
Pish. Is that it. Grayling said so it must be true. How the hell does a train not operating in our country benefit us.?

Well, it will make the trip from London to Scotland a lot quicker, won't it?

You're being pedantic.part of the route would obviously be quicker (and far more expensive) but once you teach the end of the HS2 line and then you'd have to change trains, that'll cost you a lot of time....

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
a reply to: oldcarpy

By a Chinese state owned exploration company. Not just us thieving English making free with your natural resources...

And guess who sold them the rights to drill for our Oil. Do you actually know how North sea Oil and gas exploration and extraction works? London sells off in blocks of the seafloor to whoever is the highest bidder, then London collects the tax on the finds. All Oil pumped directly onto tankers is not even classed as part of Scotlands GDP because it never touched our shore. Whisky exports are taxed from the port it leaves from, England.

England keeps Scotlands GDP as low as it can, wherever it can, and we still pay more into the UK economy per head than the rest of the UK without the dirty tricks to keep our GDP down.

Ain't it funny how we used to have thriving ports in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and our very own financial centre in Edinburgh. As soon as the Oil was discovered Westminster shut down Scotland Financial Centre and systematically closed our ports.

If the people of Scotland knew half of what goes on we would have voted for independence way back in the 70's

C'mon Solo, play fair, you can't go and use facts.

Serioisly though, I don't think the average non-scot realises just how much Scotland has been turned upside down and shook to see what change falls out.

Wasn't there also something in place that means all the oils fields, off the coast of Scotland, as far North as Kirkcaldy, actually belong to England? I wish I could remember the name of the formula that worked that out...

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Scots to Get £5 Billion Bail Out for HS2 from English Taxpayer

Yeah, I know, it's the Daily Mail but do have fun. Remember "fun"?

With articles like this it's no wonder there's anti-Scots sentiment in Englandshire...

English taxpayers will be forced to hand over £5billion to the Scots to ‘compensate’ them for building the controversial HS2 rail line.

I can see millions of Daily Fail readers coughing "bloody Scots" into their Marmalde on toast....

originally posted by: Flavian

So i guess if Scots really do want independence, they really do need to have the best possible potential government waiting in the wings. Or to put it another way, given the stakes, would you trust Sturgeon to navigate that extremely tricky path from the get go?

Well that's a little way down the line. Let get Brexited first and see what's what. Referendum should follow soon after. I actually think Scotland should change government styles if she goes her own way. Bin the party system and make politicians work together for the people not for the benefit of their won party. I wouldn't trust Sturgeon alone but she's not exactly been entirely bad for Scotland and would deserve her place in the Scottish government.