The Wall is not about immigration. It's about national security.

However you feel about immigration, we all need to agree about one thing: We don't want Mexican Cartels in charge of our national security.

If the border isn't under our control, then it is under the Cartels' control.

That means they choose who gets across and who doesn't. That means they control whether terrorists get across or don't.

Right now they don't appear to be letting them across. Great. But what are they asking of us in exchange?

What will they ask in exchange in the future?


Immigration is ABSOLUTELY NOT the issue here. NOT AT ALL.

It's not about whether people and goods get across. It's about who decides.

Do you feel safe letting the Cartels decide?

Do you want to start having to pay them protection money? Start having to release their agents when they get convicted?

Letting them decide whether a WMD gets across the border amounts to letting them decide whether we live or die.


Do you want to live at the mercy of the Cartels?

Military only way to go now.

😎

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

For Pelosi and other dems to be so vehemently opposed to wall security at strategic places along that border just tells me she's getting something in return for opposing it.

She didn't get stinking filthy wealthy by luck.

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

I say legalize all drugs for personal consumption.
Open government ran stores with taxes placed on the drugs and rehabilitation programs should be set up for those wanting to get clean.

Remove the large profit from smuggling.
Save billions that are wasted in the war on drugs.

However you feel about immigration

You need to change that to ILLEGAL immigration because I have never seen someone against the legal kind here on ATS.

The wall isn't about national security either.


It's about political effectiveness on illegal immigration and the drug war.

Trump finds himself on the right side because the dems/libs continually fall on their liberal sword and consistently rely on illegal votes to win.

a reply to: queenofswords

well, dont forget...ol Nancys father was an Italian mob man and the entire family is Italian mob politicians.

People are really foolish to think the "democratic republic" wasnt stolen within a few years of its formation.

Its inherently easy to insert puppets into our system of government...

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

For Pelosi and other dems to be so vehemently opposed to wall security at strategic places along that border just tells me she's getting something in return for opposing it.

She didn't get stinking filthy wealthy by luck.

It's a current long-term goal of the DNC and globalists at large....

Tip the population of Texas, Arizona and Florida enough with illegal immigrants and you have just ensured that you have enough electoral votes that the Presidency will be Democrat forever.

Worked with California.. they are using that as a road map.

Lots of her donors are Progressives.

So no need to follow the money... it's right there in your face.

originally posted by: Metallicus

However you feel about immigration

You need to change that to ILLEGAL immigration because I have never seen someone against the legal kind here on ATS.

Good point!

Even Trump isn't against legal immigration. His wife is a legal immigrant.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
The wall isn't about national security either.


It's about political effectiveness on illegal immigration and the drug war.

Trump finds himself on the right side because the dems/libs continually fall on their liberal sword and consistently rely on illegal votes to win.

While there is no way for me to know what is going on in Trump's mind, or anyone else's, the wall's only important outcome for the USA would be making sure we aren't under the Cartels' thumb.

Letting them decide whether terrorists smuggle a WMD across the border is the same thing as giving the Cartel's a WMD.

Think a WMD armed Iran would be dangerous? Try a WMD armed Cartel.

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Hyperbole at its finest.

The “Cartels” Do not, Cannot, and Will not control the border anymore than our own government, with its decades of opportunity and far more vast financial and military assets, has been able to control the border.

It has been estimated that up to 90% of the heroin entering the US from the south, enters via already walled and fortified LEGAL checkpoints, as well as by our sea ports and airports.

And that is just heroin. Other opioids, such as OxyContin and fentanyl, which are the basis of a growing epidemic in the US, are being produced in China and right here in the US; no wall will stop them.

Furthermore, since 9/11, the only terrorists to attack Americans in US soil have been other, LEGAL residents of the US. And the arguably worst terrorist attack on US soil itself, the attack on 9/11, was conducted not by cartel-allied illegal border-crossers from the south, but by US ally-backed jihadists who flew in to our country’s welcoming arms on student visas!

And finally (if only!); if it’s WMD’s you’re worried about, a wall is the least effective deterrent.

As I have detailed many times before, in many threads just like this one, the best, most effective, least expensive, and least detectable/hardest to defend against method of delivering a WMD to virtually any target in the US,

Is by GPS-guided balloon.

a reply to: Bhadhidar

The “Cartels” Do not, Cannot, and Will not control the border anymore than our own government, with its decades of opportunity and far more vast financial and military assets, has been able to control the border.

Stupidity at its finest there...

The various cartels completely control the flow of humans and drugs and guns flowing north.

Just a fact.

Perhaps we should do something to at least slow that down...

Since the word "wall" is now immoral, perhaps we should do what the Democrats proposed, voted on and passed not too long ago and put more "barrier" there.

Border agents say this it would help immensely.

Perhaps you should share your person experiences on how that is wrong?

You know, your personal experience on America's southern border.

Since you seem to have a lot of knowledge on the subject.

The wall is not about national security but because of a narcissistic billionaire celebrity ego douche bag who wants his name to be remembered for something good. The only wall he will get is the one he can shove up his ass

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

The cartels own the DNC and the useful idiots who support no wall are their obedient slaves.

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

For Pelosi and other dems to be so vehemently opposed to wall security at strategic places along that border just tells me she's getting something in return for opposing it.

She didn't get stinking filthy wealthy by luck.

It's a current long-term goal of the DNC and globalists at large....

Tip the population of Texas, Arizona and Florida enough with illegal immigrants and you have just ensured that you have enough electoral votes that the Presidency will be Democrat forever.

Worked with California.. they are using that as a road map.

Lots of her donors are Progressives.

So no need to follow the money... it's right there in your face.

This is really what is boils down to. I mean its as obvious as the nose on ones face.
A Democrat president every 4 years guaranteed through demographic changes.

Circus politics...the wall has dominated the news headlines.
Google how long it will take to build this wall....at least 15 years.

In 15 years we might be the national security risk.

The government has spent billions in taxpayer dollars on endless wars that have not ended terrorism but merely sown the seeds.
I've said it before, ill say it again ....the wall is legal money laundering.

It seemed a year ago, he couldve got the whole 25 billion easy for giving Dems Daca, but now he asks for 6 billion down payment and offers Daca & gets laughed at. Level 666 chess???


a reply to: ErrorErrorError

$60,000. a year = 5 grand a month, times 1 month each for 1 million out of work = 5 billion $.

(5000 x 1,000,000 = $5 billion)

Throw in loss of services to citizens, morale, etc....Gubbermint has already wasted what Trump wants.

I think USA needs to cut their losses. Or perhaps we are going broke on purpose??

a reply to: Bluntone22

A wall will only keep out walkers, diggers and flyers will come after it....people are ingenious when it comes to getting what they want.

originally posted by: Bhadhidar
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Hyperbole at its finest.

The “Cartels” Do not, Cannot, and Will not control the border anymore than our own government, with its decades of opportunity and far more vast financial and military assets, has been able to control the border.

You really don't know anything about Mexico at all, do you?

Pretty much all crime, of every sort, is controlled by the cartels. Either directly or indirectly. You can't operate without their permission.

It has been estimated that up to 90% of the heroin entering the US from the south, enters via already walled and fortified LEGAL checkpoints, as well as by our sea ports and airports.

True, for the most part. And those access points would not serve terrorists very well.

It's the ones that are useful to terrorists you have to worry about.

Furthermore, since 9/11, the only terrorists to attack Americans in US soil have been other, LEGAL residents of the US. And the arguably worst terrorist attack on US soil itself, the attack on 9/11, was conducted not by cartel-allied illegal border-crossers from the south, but by US ally-backed jihadists who flew in to our country’s welcoming arms on student visas!

Nobody is saying the Cartels will carry out an attack.

What they'll do is help a terrorist organization to attack us, if they don't get what they want.

The Cartels work on the basis of extortion. Give them money, power, and freedom from prosecution, or they will do whatever you are afraid of them doing.

In Mexico, if you don't give them what they ask, they will kidnap you and your family and torture your family to death right in front of you.

Helping a terrorist smuggle a WMD would hurt America enough to be something they can extort us over.

If we let them start extorting us, they'll solidify their position, and when their demands finally become too much we won't have any options left. We'll just have to concede. No matter what they ask.

But if we act earlier than that, we can take away their leverage. And then we can reclassify them as a terrorist organization (because they do assassinate public officials in Mexico- which is an act of terror), and start helping Mexico become a safer place to live by eliminating them.


They know we want to do that. They won't be merciful to us if they win.

And finally (if only!); if it’s WMD’s you’re worried about, a wall is the least effective deterrent.

As I have detailed many times before, in many threads just like this one, the best, most effective, least expensive, and least detectable/hardest to defend against method of delivering a WMD to virtually any target in the US,

Is by GPS-guided balloon.

You run quite a lot of risks if you do that. A WMD isn't like a key of heroine. You can afford to send 10 heroine shipments and only have 8 arrive.

A group of terrorists would pay extra to be taken on the Cartel's most reliable route. One they've used 100 times and never been caught. (One they reserve for high paying customers.)

What a crock. The Wall is simply Trump's vanity project. Border security has been funded every year going back to at least 1990. It has steadily increased from $263M to $3.8b over that time irrespective of majority party. So this specious argument that 'Dems don't want border security' is just ignorant 'death panels' propaganda. What people opposing The Wall don't want is to piss money into some black hole so Trump can feel like a 'winner'. The fact that you people can't see this is as astounding as it is concerning. Lots of you actually believe that there is no physical barrier between along the U.S. southern border. Some areas have barriers or fences. Some areas rely on natural barriers. When CBP finds areas that are being penetrated they make changes to address it. But spending $20-$35b ON TOP OF the existing $4b/annually for Trumps Wall is just plain stupid. There are far more financially responsible ways of handing the problem. Illegal border crossings have dropped 25% since 2000 according to CPS's own statistics.